I promised I’d return with results once I’ve been able to test out various acoustic environments.
Voice in noisy surroundings
Situation: a meeting of 12 people in a meeting room about 8m x 5m with a ceiling height of about 3.5m. All walls are painted plaster on brick blocks i.e. very hard reflective surfaces.
Before: Using Edge mode Best Sound
This is what I used to use in this environment and while I could certainly hear voices in spite of heavy reflection I needed to concentrate a lot on people sitting more than a metre away from me. Granted, when people spoke at the same time things were worse but that’s a function of the acoustics and even people with good hearing would have trouble.
After: I switched to Edge Mode Enhance Speech and there was an immediate improvement. Speech, even at the far end of the meeting table (about 3 metres away) was easily understandable. Without the Starkeys I would be completely isolated.
Conclusion: I’ll be using Edge - Enhance Speech more often in meeting and social environments.
Well I decided on Thursday to return my test aids after almost two months. I just couldn’t justify spending £4250 when my Phonaks still have two years warranty left.
Good points:
The hearing experience was better than I expected. I did pick up some sounds that my Phonaks miss. I might look at a retune when I next see my audiologist but I doubt she will be able to alter things too much
Bluetooth for phone calls was excellent.
Being able to adjust for certain places and then the aids remembering the string and place was a bonus. I saved one setting for my local pub and as soon as I got within 100 yards the aids automatically changed to that setting. Clever!
Bad points:
I spent a lot of time on the app whilst in company - trying to get the ideal settings. Not a good look. I was hoping the Edge A1 would sort that out but it rarely did.
Edge wasn’t that good really. I seemed to revert to my Personal setting most of the time. Reducing background noise reduced everything. The enhancement for voice was acceptable though, but only in certain circumstances.
Bluetooth for music on the go was terrible. I literally had to hold my phone near my chest to get stability. Very disappointed in that. It was nice on the beach and on the plane though! Great not having to use my over the ear cans!
They are much bigger than my ’s. I got used to it but slipping my Phonaks in on Thursday was like putting on my comfy jumper. Bliss!
All in all a good trial and when my current guarantee runs out they will be on my list to look at again. Hopefully by then AI will have evolved much more. I was most surprised when Phonak issued a huge update to the Sphere last week after only a year since they were introduced. It shows how fast AI is being developed.
So…..very good but just not good enough to make this Yorkshireman part with his wife’s money
Jeffrey_J. Probably would have worked better with S23 or higher. Then you could have used . Phonak is just more compatible with more phones because of Bluetooth classic.
Back again after a fair time away from this thread
Stoopo, I certainly sympathise with your findings.
It’s a shame that Edge mode didn’t live up to expectations for you. I haven’t done too badly with it in restaurants (Edge mode with voice enhancement) but I tend to agree that this mode is no panacea. The problem with filtering voices becomes very acute in restaurants with hard walls and ceilings – particularly tiles. If there is talking at the neighbouring table and the voice volume is close to the voice volume of those around the table with me, I end up watching people’s mouths closely, trying to lip read. This is frustrating. Playing around with the somewhat coarse equaliser does not help.
What’s the next step for me? A table microphone which I can get for the Starkeys. Once I deploy one, I’ll be back here with the results. Now, plonking a mic down on the table, especially if there are people I don’t know well, is not a great look. But I’m willing to give it a go.
I’ll be doing further follow-up with Starkey directly to see what they can suggest when we are STILL having difficulty with Edge mode (in certain situations).
On music listening, after my disastrous foray into frequency response alteration (my fault!), I set up a “Telehear” (remote) session with my audiologist where he was able to add a couple of extra modes – “Music” and then “Personal2” which was an unprocessed mode and omnidirectional. This should enable me A/B test while listening to music. My ear canals are very narrow and the presence of any wax makes a difference to hearing. Because the presence of hearing aid molds causes some slight build-up of wax over time, I need to make sure that I get that attended to – say every 6 months. I have just had my ears de-waxed and will now be able to do some music A/B testing.
IF the music mode tests do not work out well, I’m going to look at custom ear molds. I think that better coupling to the ear will help to improve lower-mid frequencies.
For outdoor walking, my audiologist added an “Outdoors” mode to improve filtering when walking in windy areas. This has still to be tested.
On Bluetooth streaming music I haven’t had too many problems. Yes, Bluetooth is a bit sensitive to distance and also body mass. If I put my phone (an iPhone13) in a pocket while streaming to the it can and does break up – but only occasionally. If I leave the phone on a table, as I move two to three metres away, I can expect the Bluetooth to break up. Perhaps, as others have noted about Bluetooth in other posts, it depends on the version the manufacturer has gone for. But I haven’t looked into that in detail.
Another thing, the Starkeys are supposed to be running (whatever that really means) so I’d expect them to be highly effective in Edge mode – actually learning from what ambient sounds are around and then filtering for best voice response. Apart from a speech in noise algorithm, the Starkeys also work on situational sound management where they are supposed to “combat sudden sounds like a door slamming or getting ice from a bin” – what is called “Transient Noise Reduction”. Well, frankly, in noisy restaurants, I’m less than convinced. Edge mode certainly makes it possible for me to hear other people but I’d be happier if there was a narrow-band speech filter, perhaps in a directional mode so that when I turn to face someone the HAs concentrate on voice coming from that person.
I’m going to work on some music tests so I’ll be back later!
I have just learned today that Starkey aids are being offered at the Orland Park, Illinois Costco. The tech advised that they are just beginning to “learn” them and are getting trained on them. They will be selling at $1700 a pair. I don’t know exactly what Starkey “model” these aids are. I also don’t know very much about Starkey aids. Any information would be really appreciated.
Absolutely it’s a given, i like this as it’s bringing more choices for everyone, we don’t hear enough on Starkey so this will open up more reviews about their products.
Not knowing what model you have seen I can’t be sure what its specifications are. But if, as WhiteHat below has pointed to, they are the Starkey Edge mRIC R (Receiver in Channel), that’s what I’m using. Starkey have integrated two functions on one chip inside the - a Deep Neural Network and a Neuro Processor. This is supposed to filter voice from noise in all situations to allow the listener to hear other speakers better. The Starkeys have various modes such as Music mode where processing is turned off (so the HAs become more like a straight amplifier), Personal (where the HA processors filter noise in normal situations and then Edge mode where processing is maximised to allow you to hear and understand voice in noisy situations. This mode is dynamic so the filtering will be adjusted as you walk into different acoustic environments. There’s even an “Outdoor” mode for filtering wind noise which is very helpful when hiking in the country
In my experience, the Edge mode is most certainly effective but I think there’s room for improvement (for me) in very noisy restaurant situations where the volume of voices and noise becomes comparable to the voice of people around the table. So as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I may invest in a table microphone to improve those situations. I admit that this is not necessarily a good “look” but I’m past bothering about that these days and am happy just to be able to hear well.
The battery life of the HAs is impressive. I have never had a problem with running out of power. I find streaming to the Starkeys from my iPhone is acceptable but I know others have had problems with the Bluetooth connection from their phones. That may be something you will want to test. I find the Starkeys very light and comfortable and with the possibility having customised ear molds made, I expect the music listening will be better.
Your first link went to a website with the Starkey mRIC model which looks exactly like the ones I have - other than the ear molds. Mine are more flared.
I couldn’t get the second link to work from here - it seemed to go to a Costco site.
I am due to get new hearing aids in a week. I asked for Phonal Spheres for initial trial. Based on further research I will want to try the Omega AI24’s (As I don’t have a lot of confidence Phonac will implement and as it will adversely impact their Roger stuff). I like music but rarely listen live. But for electronic music can’t you use an equalizer? Or for live can you feed it thru Auracast and then equalize it and feed that to your ’s?. Also can’t you or your audiologist make selectable manual programs that disable speech clarity?
I have certainly thought about using an equaliser but the problem lies in listening to studio monitors in a studio or at home. Ideally, I’d take the input at the mic and play around with the response of the HA’s themselves so that the response approaches that of the hifi sound I remember. To do that I’d need a better reference such as a sound engineer to tell me what he/she is hearing so that I can get another perspective on what I’m hearing. I could, of course, play around with an equaliser before the studio amp but that would be useful only for me and no one else.
As you say, I could try to an amp/equaliser and then stream the HAs from the amp/equaliser. However, I haven’t yet found anything that will do that. All suggestions for equipment are welcome! (I haven’t yet read enough about Auracast to know if it provides a real hifi frequency response)
I have had no problem at all with live. Live is not the same as studio sound - there are all sorts of sound colourations, not to mention the usual over-emphasis on bass frequencies. So any sound inaccuracies are less important to me. The dynamic range of the Starkeys is really impreessive. I was about four back in a theatre listenting to some pretty lively stuff and I had no problem hearing everything the band played and discerning the instruments.
And yes, I have worked with my audiologist to produce two “music” settings one with a “flat” response and the other with some filtering in certain frequency bands so I can do some A/B testing. All voice processing is turned off. I’m still evaluating this and will report back later.
I haven’t even trialed my Spheres yet as I don’t get them for another week. I will probably trial the Omegas after that if audi recommends. I’ll post back as time progresses.
Rural New England