You are without question the most derrogatory person on this blog.
Please stop replying to any comments I make as you are an insult to this blog.
Just becuase you disrepsct the common sense approach to understand the features of each manufacturer proudtc and how the individual might utilize those features is not a reason to continually insult posters.
Rude
@Mick_Shu said:
how many channels them tru hearing aids got? they probably got you on caller id at Costco. you need to grow up and get over your thing with Costco. I’ll bet it won’t be long until you are back bitching about tru hearing. I’m willing to bet 999 people out of 1000 could not tell if a hearing aid had 8/10/12/16/54/128/1024 channels.
I’ll bet he’s one of those kids who never kept score and always thought he was a winner… now in the real world when things don’t go his way he becomes a hot head. Kind of like a lot of the women at work endlessly bitching about their ex-husbands. I say it over and move on.
Met with Resound rep at Csotco who “CLAIMED” that the FORZA mdoel is
15 channels. Marketing literature claimed 15 bands.
Resound rep claims bands and channels are the same thing which seems ridiculous.
Resound sofwtare showed 9 gain options plus 6 compression ratio option to change values. Resound rep said you add the gains plys compression and you get 15 channels.
This is the opposite Rexton rep explained to me stating that gains are the frequency channels and compression offesets the gains not a seperate frequncy channel.
A fequency band would have two frequencies at start/end. Thus 15 bands could not be 15 channels.
Could someone give me opinion as I think Resound is using a convoluted interpretation of the number of channels of it’s hearing aids.
Met with Resound rep at Csotco who “CLAIMED” that the FORZA mdoel is
15 channels. Marketing literature claimed 15 bands.
Resound rep claims bands and channels are the same thing which seems ridiculous.
Resound sofwtare showed 9 gain options plus 6 compression ratio option to change values. Resound rep said you add the gains plys compression and you get 15 channels.
This is the opposite Rexton rep explained to me stating that gains are the frequency channels and compression offesets the gains not a seperate frequncy channel.
A fequency band would have two frequencies at start/end. Thus 15 bands could not be 15 channels.
Could someone give me opinion as I think Resound is using a convoluted interpretation of the number of channels of it’s hearing aids.
Bands used to refer to controllable output level changes, channels used to refer to the manipulation of the signal. Some manufacturers use the terms interchangeably, especially as it seems that in certain markets there is a hang up about the number of channels.
As has been said elsewhere, more than half a dozen channels is largely imperceptible, more than a dozen is pretty unnecessary. Don’t worry about it.
Bands require two frequency points. Start/end.
Channel is a single frequency point.
Thus to interchange teh terminology sappears to be incorrect.
I am not asking how many channels I need just to straghten out the Resound Forxa misrepresentation as the rep clearly could not comprehend the statement above.
In fact when the software was show with 9 gain handles and 6 compression ration handles to increase values she merely said you add of these to get 15 channels.
When I asked how can 15 bands result in 15 channels if a band requires 2 frequency points, the PHD Audiologist froze and remained silent.
Bands used to refer to controllable output level changes, channels used to refer to the manipulation of the signal. Some manufacturers use the terms interchangeably, especially as it seems that in certain markets there is a hang up about the number of channels.
As has been said elsewhere, more than half a dozen channels is largely imperceptible, more than a dozen is pretty unnecessary. Don’t worry about it.
Whether described as channels or bands, they are all technically bands with a frequency range that is often described by the center most frequency rather than the low and high range of the band. For example, in the attached picture from a 20 channel device, the highlighted “480 Hz” channel technically covers the frequency range from 397 to 548 Hz which you see shaded in red. Hope this is helpful.
Thanks, I liked the plot but not sure it makes sense to me compared to other manufacturers.
This adds a new interpretation of channels. IS this considered consistent with other manufacturers?
Rexton for example was opposite of this having 16 distinct frequencies to add gain. When it modified the compression values(8) it stated this was a trade-off gain to reduce noise and improve speech reception.
Now you Resound not explaining how 15 channels can be promote.
In your example if:
Center Frequency= 480Hz
RSide band= 68HZ(548Hz)
Lsideband= 83Hz(397Hz)
Why are the side bands different ranges such as 68Hz each sidelob?
But Resound is claiming that you acquire the 15 channels but adding up the gain handles:
9 gain frequnecy
6 compression ratio
15 total channels adding 9 gain + 6 compression ratio values in Resound software according to the Resound rep who is not a thorugh communicator technically.
So how do you translate this gain + compression ratio shown in Resound sofwtare?
Whether described as channels or bands, they are all technically bands with a frequency range that is often described by the center most frequency rather than the low and high range of the band. For example, in the attached picture from a 20 channel device, the highlighted “480 Hz” channel technically covers the frequency range from 397 to 548 Hz which you see shaded in red. Hope this is helpful.
It’s like the classic conundrum: a tram (street-car) wheel has five spokes - how many holes?
Thanks, I liked the plot but not sure it makes sense to me compared to other manufacturers.
This adds a new interpretation of channels. IS this considered consistent with other manufacturers?
Rexton for example was opposite of this having 16 distinct frequencies to add gain. When it modified the compression values(8) it stated this was a trade-off gain to reduce noise and improve speech reception.
Now you Resound not explaining how 15 channels can be promote.
In your example if:
Center Frequency= 480Hz
RSide band= 68HZ(548Hz)
Lsideband= 83Hz(397Hz)
Why are the side bands different ranges such as 68Hz each sidelob?
But Resound is claiming that you acquire the 15 channels but adding up the gain handles:
9 gain frequnecy
6 compression ratio
15 total channels adding 9 gain + 6 compression ratio values in Resound software according to the Resound rep who is not a thorugh communicator technically.
So how do you translate this gain + compression ratio shown in Resound sofwtare?
While not personally experienced with the Costco models, I agree that this explanation seems incorrect. It is common in Resound devices, however, for the base processing to function using a larger number of channels than are used for gain/output adjustments in the software. (looking at programming software therefore is not an accurate way of determining the full number of processing channels)
I would also agree with my colleagues that a higher number of channels rarely results in a more satisfactory fit and other aspects of the various devices would better govern your investment decision. Best of luck
Base processing to funcation using a large number of channels
Are you implying that the gain modes used to amplify the signal are programming not only the center frequency but also sub-carrier frequencies?
Resound shows 9 gain handles at these frequencies: 500Hz, 1K, 1.5k, 2K, 2.5k, 3k, 4k, 5k, 6k(I think).
Does this mean that when a center frequency of 500Hz is amplified that multiple sub-carrier frequencies are also modified? This would imply an unknow range(band) was programmed but still would not achieve a 15 channel band.
Resound seemed to think the gain + compression ratios are the 15 channel explanation. Hwoever, compression reduces the amplified signal(possibly in a frequency band not just center frequency).
Compression allows thereduction in amplitude(noise/distortion) to improve the signal response for acquisition of soft tones(speech clarity).
Thus qualifying Resounds Alera 9(17 channels) or Costcos Forza(15 channels) seems almost impossible since the terminology Resound uses is not consistent with other manufacturers.
Costco sells rexton hearing aid which uses (Automatic gain Control) which is the Rexton algorithm to perform compression. Resound calls in Compression ratio. Hard to learn everyone’s different terminology and quality fo features.
I do agree that # of channels is not the most important but based on ConsumerHearingGuide.com evaluation of manufacturers the more channle sthe more features the eharing aid has resulting in higher costs.
Trick? To determine the quality of these features and their cost.
While not personally experienced with the Costco models, I agree that this explanation seems incorrect. It is common in Resound devices, however, for the base processing to function using a larger number of channels than are used for gain/output adjustments in the software. (looking at programming software therefore is not an accurate way of determining the full number of processing channels)
I would also agree with my colleagues that a higher number of channels rarely results in a more satisfactory fit and other aspects of the various devices would better govern your investment decision. Best of luck
Hotrod you seem to have a lot of knowledge about hearing aids. I was not sure what info you wanted from the forum. Did you buy hearing aids from Costco and are not happy? Are you shopping and frustrated from lack of info from Costco?
I have The Resound Future that are replaced by the Forza. I did trial the Resound 7 from a local audiologist before buying from Costo.
Costco earned my business and I am very happy with their service and the product they sold me. I wanted to assure you that the product is very good quality and also that the warranty is also 3 years for replacement for loss and 4 years for damage or loss of function. This was extended by using my Amex card. I assume that the same is true for the Forza.
Again not sure what you are looking for or if you feel cheated by Costco but I would only deal with a hearing aid supplier that I trusted. If you don’t trust Costco Find someone that you can trust and deal with them.
I hope this helps and you get your hearing improved to the best that is possible.
Phil,
I am new and learning about and what I have learned is only by comparison research in the past month.
Costco REFUSES to provide product specification literature on the Forza.
Resound WILL NOT provide the detailed explanation on how why it confuses frequency band vs frequency channel as the same thing. Resound ignores all communciation for an explanation. Resound rep w/ a PHD did not know the asnwer and was unwilling to research it.
Costco REFUSES to give the Manufacturer Warranty Agreement on the purchase of the Resound Forza product.
Previous poster gave a possible explanation saying some companies use the phrase meaning different things. SO when I asked Resound they then REFSUED to explain or research saying ask Costco. Costco has nobody competently trained in HA characteristics.
American Express Extended Warranty protection requires a Manufacturer Warranty Agreement then extends this agreement up to one year. Thus Costco says “Resound provides 2 years Loss & Damage, 3rd year Repair” then AMex should extend each phase.
Resound and Costco to date have refused to provide the Manufacturer Warranty Agreement which is potential fraud. American Exoress agrees that Costco, a merchant, should be providing the Manufacturer Warranty Agreement at purchase.
As for the Costco Forza product it appears average compared with Costco’s Kirland product(Rexton made). Resound “CLAIMS” which cannot be verified that the Forza is similiar to the ALera( model. Unfortunately, many items from ALera9 have been eliminated:
a. Minimum of 2-9 channels. AMbiguous as Resound will not clarify details and Costco is clueless on tehcnical detains.
b. Environmental control - not sure what it did but a feature Resound claims is eliminated.
c. Both products ALera9 and FRorza fail to synchronize modees when manually activated.
I disagree you have GUARANTEED 3 yr Loss & Damage using AMeerican Express as Costco has jeopardized this agreement by failing to provide the Manufacturer Warranty Agreement.
Only if AMEX, contacts Resound and at the last minute Resound provides an APPROVED Manufacturing Warranty AGreement in your 3 rd year of ownership can you be remotely sure you are insured.
Costco, Resound and American Express will not accept LIABILITY if the promotion fails due to a technicality. Until Costco provides a written copy of a Manufacture Warranty AGreement then American Express is not legalkly required to extend.
I requested from American Express in WRITING a letter to backup “in-take claims” group at Amex that Resound hearing aids were covered. Amercian Express came back and siad due to privacy it could advise whether any Costco hearing aid claim…let alone Resound had ever been approved.
Costco is about to be hit with a BBB claim for failure to provide a Manufacturer Warranty Agreement. Leadership at Csotco is poorly educated in contract law.
Please post a GUARANTEED LETTER from American EXpress on accepting Costco’s contract to extend Resounds Loss & Damage.
I don’t think you have read in depthly the contract warranty agreement by AMerican Express or Resound(which won’t provide their’s).
Hotrod you seem to have a lot of knowledge about hearing aids. I was not sure what info you wanted from the forum. Did you buy hearing aids from Costco and are not happy? Are you shopping and frustrated from lack of info from Costco?
I have The Resound Future that are replaced by the Forza. I did trial the Resound 7 from a local audiologist before buying from Costo.
Costco earned my business and I am very happy with their service and the product they sold me. I wanted to assure you that the product is very good quality and also that the warranty is also 3 years for replacement for loss and 4 years for damage or loss of function. This was extended by using my Amex card. I assume that the same is true for the Forza.
Again not sure what you are looking for or if you feel cheated by Costco but I would only deal with a hearing aid supplier that I trusted. If you don’t trust Costco Find someone that you can trust and deal with them.
I hope this helps and you get your hearing improved to the best that is possible.
Costco dispensers do not seem to techncially to undertand the differences between :
frequency channels - how Rexton phrases it’s hearing aid
channels - way other manufacturers phrase it’s product
band - frequency band…but Costco only shook it’s head after I explained
programmable modes - number of settings…nothing to do with channels.
In programming there are usually amplitudes to increase sound and AGC for compression. But Costco cannot explain the specs for Kirkland SIgnature(Rexton product) or Resound.
That is why I am asking on this forum.
hi guys, this discussion can really help me with this hearing aid to… I’ll just keep updating here for my information… please keep me posted, thanks…
Hotrod I wish you the best and I have no intension of posting a warranty agreement as I don’t have one in my possession and don’t care to spend the time looking for one. I have used the Amex warranty on several items and have never had a issue with them backing there claims. I also have had Costco go out of their way to help me with what ever issues I have with their products or anything else that they sell. You didn’t really answer if you were shopping for HA or if you work for a internet HA provider. It really is of no importance
its just that you come off very angry and very negative, I guess its me not doing my job as a consumer but I have never done so much investigation on a warranty issue that I haven’t used yet. I have no issue with you and wish you the best.
I’m not sure that you got all of your questions answered, and I did not take a lot of time to sift through all the threads. So I will try to answers as many questions for you as I can, if I don’t get to all of them please feel free to IM me and I will exchange emails with you and fill in the gaps.
All Resound products are based off the Barks system and have 17 channels. This is not to be confused with gain handles or bands. The Forza falls closest to the Alera 9, but with some differences. It has 3 programs and only five environmental classifications(The Alera 9 has 4 programs and seven environmental classifiers). It does have 9 gain adjustment handles which classifies the difference between an Alera 5/7/9. The remote controls/Bluetooth/companion microphone/TV streamer are all the same. Costco sells them at a great discount because of volume. Costco Dispenses anywhere from $500,000 to $900,000 a day in hearing aids, there buying power is immense.
The Forza comes with a three-year warranty, two-year lost and damage with no deductible(I believe Costco is still the only Hearing center that offers zero dollar deductible). That also provides you with lifetime service anywhere there is a Costco that services your product (i.e. has a hearing center).
The batteries are made by Rayovac and have recently switched to a 40 pack and Are mercury free. This makes them roughly $.25 apiece.
When I see people at my office I like to have three appointments. Test, delivery with real ear, any follow up with validation and phonemic adjustments. So expect to get to know your dispenser. Don’t be too hard on your provider. Most of us have a very set routine we like to follow to get to a certain baseline satisfaction. For example, I like to see the patient for three appointments before I make any specific adjustments, so I can gather as much data about your life/needs as possible. I know from experience, when people come in and start spouting numbers and telling me how they want their hearing aids fit that it generally builds animosity and hostility between the provider and the patient, Which only results in a breakdown of communication between the patient in there hearing healthcare needs.
So to wrap it up, go easy on your provider and give Costco a 90 day trial (that’s what it’s therefore). And keep in mind picking the provider is just as important as picking your hearing aids.
I provide every purchasing patient with a guaranteed (in writing) lost and damage/warranty coverage. American Express is not part of Costco and whatever arrangement they have is between you and then it’s between you and them.
But I do appreciate your opinions and honesty.
Wales, UK
and give Costco a 90 day trial (that’s what it’s therefore). And keep in mind picking the provider is just as important as picking your hearing aids.