I think the issue of protecting aids from moisture does go beyond where you live. Not everyone is a white collar worker, working at home or in a air conditioned office where sweat rarely forms. Just think about working outside in summer months doing physical labor of some nature. Preferably not a chain gang. But let’s add to possible moisture related issues. Let say you get caught in a thunderstorm with your aids on with no where to hide and no umbrella. Lets say jump or slip into a pool with aids on or as I mentioned enter the shower and then the light comes on. Or by chance drop your aid by accident into a sink full of water. Should any of the above happen, your audi’s going to tell you to first remove aid battery then place aid in dryer for several hours. Then keep your fingers crossed things work the same as before.
If manufactures are going to force us to use rechargeable batteries in the future, then the least they can do is provide charging units that dry and sterilize aids as batteries are being recharge. Maybe such things already exist, but you would think in the case of Otion’s More aid, the company would show not only a battery charging unit but also a aid dryer that works in tandem. Nice to kill two birds with one stone, since I certainly don’t want to charge my aid batteries at night for three hours and then move my aid to a dryer and let them cook for two, three hours more hours. Life is too short.
Should any of the above happen, your audi’s going to tell you to first remove aid battery then place aid in dryer for several hours.
Accidents will happen and a dryer per se is not going to protect you against any of the accidents that you cite or guarantee that the device will still work after you’ve dried the soaked device out.
I once dunked a very expensive Sony camcorder into a toilet while taking a pee at an art museum, no less. I had a humungous extended Li-ion battery on the device and the case I got would only properly close when a regular-sized battery was on the camcorder. So as I tried to zip up my winter coat, I tumped the open case over as it hung from a neck strap and Kersplash!
I was very lucky and I learned one lesson almost the hard way. As soon as you suspect any fine electronic device has been soaked (might include your ’s if you value them), turn OFF the device. Don’t keep running it or you can truly short out and ruin the device. I foolishly immediately turned on my camcorder to see if it was still working after taking a bath (I think that I also rinsed it off with tap water before turning it on!). I could see a film or haze spreading across the LCD viewing screen as I watched and I wised up and immediately turned the device off. (the device was insured against hazard).
Perhaps because I didn’t want to go to State Farm with “you see, I dropped my brand new camcorder into a toilet…,” when I got home, I blotted everywhere that I could see moisture with a Q-tip and I think I basically kept the device in a big closed jar with desiccant and I would periodically change the desiccant and very briefly test the camcorder by periodically turning it on as the weeks rolled by. The LCD screen got clearer over a period of weeks and eventually all signs of moisture disappeared. And although the camcorder had no water-resistance rating whatsoever, it’s functioned perfectly for 11 years since (a screw-on UV lens cap probably helped the optics survive, too). So if one is unfortunate to have an accident, you don’t need a heated dryer to recover. A jar, lots of patience, and a number of changes of desiccant will do quite nicely. Most experienced users keep an old set of HA’s as backup.
ReSound says it expects its rechargeable to last at least 5 years. There is nothing in the manual about drying them. How could the manufacturer possibly expect their HA’s to last at least 5 years and give no advice on the need to dry them?
Rather than think a dryer is going to somehow allow a soaked device to recover from a bad accident (maybe, maybe not), what would be wiser again, if HA manufacturers were smart enough to follow Apple’s example, is to offer the equivalent of Apple Care. You pay 5% or 10% of the cost of the device a year and, no problema, if anything happens, they just replace it (or repair it) no questions asked. People who think they’re likely to fall into a swimming pool or get caught out in the rain and don’t think to remove their HA’s or cup their hands over their ears could pay up and not have to worry about accidents or bet a dryer is going to rescue them from a mishap.
If you want, you can probably get a dryer company to make a customized dryer that barely heats your rechargeables but still has a blower and desiccant and UV light. After an ear infection, I decided to UV my molds after cleaning them just before reinserting my HA’s but except for using the desiccant for the first month or so of use, I’ve never used the drying function since and just zap my HA’s for 2 min with the UV before turning them on and inserting the molds (my own version of keeping elephants away).
@Blacky should be able to add clarification, but I think you pretty much covered the differences.
Yup, can confirm.
In my case, I wasn’t impressed with tapping, since I don’t use assistants, but it reminded me that I already wear a phone with which I can control streaming (for that I didn’t have the use case before aids).
Also, I either didn’t get any noticeable benefit of omni mic from motion sensor. I wore back then.
Connection seemed to be a bit faster with R model.
But I’d have to pay around 500 eur more for R model, and I really don’t like things that want to be charged everyday, to me that’s definitely minus, so I happily went not spending additional 500 eur
Move the aid(s) to the charging unit for three hours, or more likely for the whole night.
So that means for two hours every night you’re still awake but not wearing your aids because they are being cooked in a dryer. Then when dried you have to move aid to a battery charger and then can finally go to sleep. I seriously hope I missing something here.
But (ahhhh) if I have disposable batteries I just take battery out of aid(s) - place aid in dryer, turn out the dryer and go to bed. So simple
So bottom line if one has aid(s) with rechargeable battery and wants to use a dryer at night they have to:
I think one mistake to make is to assume that the sequence that works for you has to be everyone else’s care sequence, too.
I don’t charge my ’s while I’m asleep. My protocol follows along the idea of Apple’s new “optimized charging” scheme. If charging up and keeping your HA’s at 100% charge most of the night is not optimal (per Apple’s example not to do so) why start charging your HA’s when you go to bed? Unless you literally have to rush out the door every morning as soon as you leap out of bed?
The wife reads an electronic newspaper in the morning cover-to-cover it seems and doesn’t like any talking while she’s doing so (and I can hear pretty well what she says without my HA’s, anyway). So I can take 25 min to an hour, easily in the morning to charge my HA’s while I eat breakfast, read my own copy of the paper, brush my teeth, wash my face, dress. An hour of charging will give me 14 hours of use (I normally do 30 min in the morning, 30 min in the afternoon, though, to give my ears a break from wearing occlusive molds).
If I wanted, I could dry my HA’s all night long in a dryer (or put the charging case inside a drying jar) but I don’t think that it’s necessary since neither ReSound nor my audi, with decades of experience since the 1980’s, advised me to do so (in fact, she guffawed softly when I first got my HA’s and asked her how to dry them!).
With coming along, I’m not sure I want to keep my current HA’s five years but otherwise it would be an interesting experiment to see how well the Li-ion batteries withstand 5 years of use and how well the HA’s themselves survive with nothing but plain old air drying. If you’ve ever mopped your own kitchen floor, you should know that it doesn’t take more than half an hour or so to thoroughly dry. I don’t see why HA’s, which are nowhere near as wet as the floor, should take heating and desiccant to dry out while sitting for ~8 hours overnight if a wet floor can dry in half an hour, no heating, no desiccant.
The following is an undergraduate experiment in Denmark, done at ~44% RH. Unfortunately, the experimenters don’t define the temperature of the hot plate under the cloth in the heating experiment *** (see below) but it shows that applying heat only doubles the drying rate that can be achieved with a 2 m/s breeze (4.5 mph). Most of us don’t have such breezes in our houses but we do have a forced air /heating system that comes on several times an hour and I also keep the case by a window where there is always an inside/outside temperature differential leading to window drafts, which undoubtedly also helps drying.
*** in Figure 2 of the linked reference, the amount of heat applied by the metal plate is defined as that sufficient to prevent evaporative cooling of the cloth, which with no heat source would cool the cloth to 13.3 deg C (56 deg F). The heating supplied to the plate on which the cloth rests keeps the cloth at the ambient room temperature, 20 deg C (68 deg F). I doubt for the amount of moisture in HA’s there’s going to be any significant evaporative cooling as any moisture evaporates.
The rechargeable hearing aids are completely sealed. The only openings are the microphones which also have a membrane covering the openings to prevent water from getting in. They are even rated water resistant (IP67 I think) so moisture is less of an issue for these hearing aids. Not sure about the .
When using aids moisture can get in through the battery compartment or via the tube or wire that goes into your ear canal. As as I mentioned earlier with a , moisture from sweat, etc., over time can damage receiver probably right after your warranty expires. In any case Jim brings up a good point about not necessarily charging your aids over night though I bet a solid majority of aid users do such a thing. I mean who wants to give up three hours of daylight walking around if your aids are charging and you can’t hear?
I think some here are really missing the “summer humidity” factor and how many hearing aid dealers/Audi get swamped with service calls from customers saying their aids either died or cut out due to moisture problems. When you get 90 degree plus heat and high humidity - that’s not the best environment for aids, especially if you are working outside. Bottom line there is a need for drying and charging aid batteries at the same time and if I could invent such a thing - I wouldn’t be posting here. I’d be burning money on some tropical island.
I agree with you. My theory is that the hearing aid manufacturers are pushing into rechargeable hearing aids because they are almost completely sealed (no battery door) and less likely to fail due to moisture issues. It’s a great combination of value to the customer and value to the manufacturer.
I think the move to rechargeables is motivated by multiple factors. 1) There is pretty strong demand
2) One less point of entry for moisture and dust as has been mentioned 3) Ability to run at higher voltages which seems necessary for certain hearing aid featurs and possibly helpful for more powerful computer cpus/ radios 4)Allows design freedom. The don’t have to design around a round battery.
Never heard of dryers. I use Phonak M90R. After my clunky Siemens they are so comfortable that the first I realise in the shower is that I can hear. They have been showered with no problems of drying. My daily use is 15 hrs 45 minutes. The biggest problem I have is with Covid face masks. My new aid should arrive next week
Regarding holidays, my typical travel might be aids In 4 hours before flight, 10 hour flight, 8 or more hours before bedtime - 22 hours. I don’t think they would last that length of time. My audiologist suggested switching them off during the flight or I could use a seat USB supply.
Regarding my cheap battery Siemens I have gone swimming and been in the shower with them (both by accident). The only problem is rust in the battery compartment.
When I travel by air, I try to minimize what I take in the cabin because of longstanding shoulder issues. So adding the (Oticon) charger would be yet one more thing in terms of both weight and bulk.
This is my rationale as well. When outside N. America and needing to use adaptors/converters I would be afraid of damaging my and . I also live in an area which is prone to bad winter storms and summer tornadoes. Electricity can go out for hours, even days. I like to know that I can pop in fresh batteries which I always have at hand.
I suppose one issue not addressed so far is that LI ion batteries only have a life cycle of 300-500 charges before they will simply no longer hold a charge. It’s the nature of the beast. It’s why after 2 or so years your phone likely needs a replacement battery as it runs down way too fast, or your laptop ends up plugged in more than you used to use it unplugged. And that’s fine, you know that’s a limitation of the battery technology and plan accordingly.
Which raised the issue in a sealed with a rechargeable, what is the cost of battery replacement? Can your audi do it right in the office or does it get shipped back for a week or two round trip? That has to go into the equation. I’m a little surprised a company would claim a 5 year battery life for a LI ion setup, because I haven’t seen anyone accomplish that one. You can redundancy if you’re using Li arrangements with reserve batteries to take over as the working cells wear out, but that couldn’t fit in a shell (at least not one I’ve seen, but I certainly haven’t seen everything on the market). I like the idea of rechargeable for many reasons, but from a practical view I would want to know how that’s addressed.
I also noticed folks talking about dryers. Quite separate from the battery, the biggest enemy of electronics/chips is heat. I’ve seen dryers on the market that claim to dry at 120 degrees. That’s awfully hot for electronics, separate from the battery. Is that really a good idea?
Finally, the biggest environmental factor that a Li battery hates (well, all batteries but these are soldered in so no swapping) is cold. If you live somewhere there is an actual winter and spend much time outside in 30 degree weather, your battery charge life can decrease by almost half. Now, if it or your ear can keep it toasty warm. But unless you have some form of ear protection your Li battery won’t like you and ask to be recharged sooner. Of course if you wear ear muffs or other ear covering you’ll be covering the mics as well. Has anyone had experience with rechargeables in cold weather?
I think most of this has been hashed out in various posts. Manufacturers seem to mitigate the 300-500 discharge/recharge cycles issue by 1)supplying more than bare minimum capacity to allow for some reduced capacity and 2) (this is a guess) not fully charging the battery
It seems to be common practice to send the hearing aids back to manufacturer near the end of the 3 year warranty where the manufactuer replaces batteries (or entire hearing aids) at no charge. My Mom did this with hers (and had no trouble getting 3 years use out of them prior to sending them back) Probaby not a great idea to use a heated drier, but there are other options. Bascially there seem to be few issues other than if you’re wearing them around the clock and want immediate ability to pop new batteries in. Cold does not seem to have been an issue, although an Arctic expedition may not be the best place for rechargeables.
LI ion batteries only have a life cycle of 300-500 charges before they will simply no longer hold a charge
It depends on the battery chemistry and also usage. Apple currently says an iPhone will last the equivalent of 800 full charge cycles and an Apple Watch Gen 6 (the latest) is supposed to last 1,000 full charge cycles. So your “only 300 to 500 cycles” might be a quite bit off. ReSound says it’s Quattro batteries are expected to last 5 years of use and Phonak has said that Marvels (and I presume Paradise) will last 6 years. Most OEM’s allow you to “refurbish” your HA’s at the end of the 3-year warranty period so if you do so, using ReSound’s 5-year battery life, you would very likely get 3 years (warranty period) + 5 more years (life of HA battery) or 8 years of use before you needed a new HA. It’s not that the HA’s won’t charge. The life cycle end is usually defined by the point at which a Li-ion battery will only hold 80% of its original charge, at which point the battery may not generate a good operating voltage and may not be able to respond to intense power demands (as per Apple’s “Batterygate” where they initially deliberated slowed down older iPhones with older batteries to avoid iPhone crashes and users assumed Apple was doing this to make users want to get new iPhones).
Also, there is nothing wrong with operating a Li-ion battery at 32 deg F (0 deg C). It just shouldn’t be charged at such a low temperature or bad things will happen. The voltage of the battery will drop (and I don’t know if HA’s are capable of compensating for this - some devices are). ReSound states that it’s Quattro’s can be stored at down to -4 deg F (-20 deg C) and presumably they can operate at close to that outdoors temperature, too, as use will help warm the batteries up a bit. Most people are likely to wear ear coverings around 32 deg F just for the sake of their ears. I have stored FOUR 2011-vintage Samsung Galaxy Nexus phone batteries on a refrigerator door compartment since 2011 to rotate through using each battery in my Nexus as an “iPod” podcast player and the batteries have done fine stored at 44 deg F or less. I store them each loosely rolled in an unsealed plastic bag and warm them up for an hour or two at room temperature before opening a bag and swapping one into my phone and the other out, back into storage for another 3 weeks.
As discussed in other threads on this forum - maybe even above in this thread - if you don’t use the full charge range, you can get many more full-equivalent charge cycles out of a Li-ion battery. Never charging above 80% supposedly ~doubles the useful life span. Only charging through ~20% of full capacity, say, 40% to 60%, might give you 4 to 5x increase on useful charge cycles. My Apple Watch charges about 1% a minute by magnetic induction on a little pad. I use about 25% to 30% of its full capacity a day, only going out of Airplane Mode when I really need to connect to my iPhone. I charge it up by 10% to 15% two to three times a day when I’m taking a break, snacking, or whatever, going between about 45% to 60% charge. After ~6 months of use, the Settings, Battery, Battery Health says that I still have 100% of full capacity (maybe it’s really at 98% or 99% full-capacity?). So I bet that I get at least 5 years of use out of my Apple Watch. Same for my iPhone 6S. My wife got the battery replaced, used the phone full tilt a few months in 2018, then let the phone sit quite a while in fully discharged state (not good!). When I got her iPhone, Battery Health dropped from 100% to 99% in short order but has remained at 99% for my past 6 months of iPhone use where I’d say that I have used 30% to 40% of full capacity a day but charge no more than about 15% of capacity at a time, also going between about 40-45% to 55-60% capacity when charging (charge watch and phone at same time).
So, yeah, Li-ion and Li-po batteries used to have crappy endurance but your expectations on charge cycle lifespan probably go with those original crappy batteries, too. Li batteries have improved a lot in the last 10 to 15 years and I think your figures are out-of-date.
Toronto, Canada
Grantham, Lincolnshire, UK
