Phonak P90 vs. Oticon More 1 vs. Costco Alternatives

@Volusiano said:

But in practice, Oticon seems to not be practicing what they preach. They don’t seem to want you to get the 10 dB noise suppression unless you really ask for it. I guess maybe the 10 dB noise suppression takes away too much sound than they would have liked to admit, or than the client would have liked to lose. So while they advertise that they can do up to 10 dB with the More 1, they don’t seem to want the client to go there unless the client really needs to / wants to go there.

But I guess they still don’t mind marketing their 10 dB number on the More 1 to justify the premium price they want the client to pay.

As a More1 user who has just had Neural Noise Suppression reduced from 10dB to 8dB, I have to, reluctantly, agree with this assessment. My More1s don’t appear to be smart enough to apply GoldiLock’s “just the right amount” of noise attenuation.

The expression “more than the client would like to lose” is a perfect description. The higher setting does seem to dampen the soundscape perceptibly (although I can’t say that @ubabopepton 's description rings a bell - ‘fullness of the ear’ doesn’t do it).

Even though my hearing aids are provided to me by VAC, I paid $1,500 extra out of my own pocket to get the Clear Dynamics feature and the extra Neural Noise suppression. I’m p1$$ed! I’m pretty sure that More2 would have worked just as well for my loss and lifestyle, for hundreds of dollars less!!

ClearDynamics is worth extra to me, as a professional musician, because it allows me to practice on my musical instruments and and rehearse my material without the input stage of my HAs getting overdriven and clipping. But I don’t think I need or like 10dB of noise reduction, since it does seem to subtly mute my entire soundscape by aggressively eliminating any amplitude peaks present. This presents to the ear what the Great Plains present the eye.

In fact, in typing this post, I’ve gravitated to the point - based on 6 months’ experience with More1s - that anyone looking at the options of More 1, 2, or 3 give strong consideration to More 2 and the degree to which this technology level shares features with More1. If you are really bothered by loud noises, or have a loss that requires an extended range of all the adjustment parameters available, you may have no choice but to go for More1s.

If your BrainHaring is pretty good, however, and if you’re able to focus your mind on the speakers and sounds you want to hear without much “machine assistance”, then you may be perfectly well-served by More2s.

I have found that the lack of the ClearDynamics feature on the More3, and other weaker, but poorly-explained parameters and features, are deal breakers for me, personally. But, as I’ve said in other threads: if music doesn’t play a significant role in your everyday hearing, you may be able to get by with More3.

I appreciate your insights, Jim.

I’m struggling with the decision of More 1, 2, or 3. I’m in no rush. On the comparison of all 3 on the professional side of the website, Oticon stresses the value of the 2 over the 3 and the 1 over the 2 “if hearing speech is difficult . . .” I miss more words than I would like, so this jumps out at me. However, being retired, I’m not in noisy environments a lot. I currently have Opn 1. Any thoughts on this?

@billgem said:

website, Oticon stresses the value of the 2 over the 3 and the 1 over the 2 “if hearing speech is difficult . . .” I miss more words than I would like, so this jumps out at me.

FWIW, Bill - it’s an immediate and comfortable decision for me to advise: if you can afford the More1 premium over the More2s, get the More1s. (I don’t think you should consider More3s - I don’t think they have enough handles for your loss, from the sounds of it.)

I have been wearing More1s for 6 months. They probably have more features and power than I need, however they are clear winners on 2 counts:

1. Music sounds great through them, and
2. They afford my audiologist the best chance of keeping pace as my hearing continues to deteriorate, because they have all the power of this latest generation of hearing instruments. (In retrospect, however, I could probably have gone with More2s and not made a mistake.)

[This all assumes that you subscribe to Oticon’s BrainHearing and OpenSound paradigms.]

And #2 is my reason for unreservedly pointing you towards the More1s: they’ll give you and your audiologist the best odds of keeping up with your hearing loss.

I hope I haven’t overstepped, or sounded too much like your friendly Oticon Snake Oil Pusher!

For what it’s worth, I currently have the OPN 1 as well, and I ALWAYS set my Noise Reduction max values to -9 dB (the highest I can go in the OPN 1, while the default is supposed to be at -5 dB) for Complex and -3 dB for Simple env. (default is 0 dB), and I never feel that the OPN 1 takes too much sounds away from me in noisy situations. So in my case I don’t follow what Oticon is pushing, I just be my own judge on what’s best for me.

What do you have your max Noise Reduction on your OPN 1 set to, Bill? You can play around with setting it between -5 dB and -9 dB and see if you notice any difference in noisy situations, and which one you like better. You can also set it to -7 dB, the in-between value. This will help you form a better opinion of which More to get, the 1 or the 2 or the 3. Like Jim said, the 3 will lack the Clear Dynamics that’s helpful for live music listening, though, if that’s what important to you.

Can I run the software off my IPad? [This is not a facetious question, BTW.]

It’s a Windows based software, so your iPad would need to have a Windows 10 emulator. But there are also system requirements that must be met for Genie 2 to work (see below). So I’m not sure if it’s as simple as running it on an emulator.

Bummer! Tap tap tap

@Volusiano said:

I bet if I were there and asked the question “But it’s only a max value and your online help says it’s smart enough only to apply what is needed, so why can’t I just set it to the max of the tier that I paid a premium for?” , I would venture to bet money that none of these presenters would be able to answer that question.

You know, I agree with what you are conveying, and I’d love to hear from a technical POV what actually changes in the algorithm when you move that slider.
There must be a reason, and b4 your post, I was contemplating phoning Oticon support to ask.
I just might do it.

Do you think we should start a dedicated thread to Oticon NNS?
We seem to interject it into a lot of different topics.

@flashb1024 said:

Do you think we should start a dedicated thread to Oticon NNS?
We seem to interject it into a lot of different topics.

True, it seems like we’ve taken this thread way off topic here with this issue. Maybe if you ask them and they give you a response, then you can start a thread to discuss their response further. We need to at least get some kind of explanation from them to make the discussion far more interesting. Otherwise, it seems like a one-way street all through and through…

@billgem said:

website, Oticon stresses the value of the 2 over the 3 and the 1 over the 2 “if hearing speech is difficult . . .” I miss more words than I would like, so this jumps out at me.

@SpudGunner said:

FWIW, Bill - it’s an immediate and comfortable decision for me to advise: if you can afford the More1 premium over the More2s, get the More1s. (I don’t think you should consider More3s - I don’t think they have enough handles for your loss, from the sounds of it.)

I have been wearing More1s for 6 months. They probably have more features and power than I need, however they are clear winners on 2 counts:

1. Music sounds great through them, and
2. They afford my audiologist the best chance of keeping pace as my hearing continues to deteriorate, because they have all the power of this latest generation of hearing instruments. (In retrospect, however, I could probably have gone with More2s and not made a mistake.)

[This all assumes that you subscribe to Oticon’s BrainHearing and OpenSound paradigms.]

And #2 is my reason for unreservedly pointing you towards the More1s: they’ll give you and your audiologist the best odds of keeping up with your hearing loss.

I hope I haven’t overstepped, or sounded too much like your friendly Oticon Snake Oil Pusher!

Thanks, Jim. I can afford the More 1, but I’m cheap, so I’m exploring various ways to get it for as low a price as I can - but only if I can pair them with an excellent audiologist.

I do subscribe to brain hearing and the open sound paradigm.

I’ve just watched 20 minutes of this 57 minute Oticon webinar on Deep Learning, and as at this moment, it has failed to deliver a single point to me that is of any value, either from a practical or an intellectual perspective.

Oticon Webinar on Deep Learning 6

[I’ll finish watching the rest of it when the numbness the speaker has induced in my mind diminishes, somewhat.]

That’s why I don’t “watch” any of these Audiology courses anymore. I simply download the slides and the transcript. Then I skim through the slides to see if any of them are of interest to me (if they go over something interesting or something I don’t already know). If I find such slides and need further elaboration for those slides, then I go to the transcript and look up what they say on those slides to see if they elaborate anything further verbally or not.

Otherwise I just can’t take sitting there and mind-numbingly listen through the whole thing. Even on some of the YouTube videos (like for example that interview with the Whisper people), I play them at 2X speed with the caption on, and even then, sometimes I hit the right arrow button to jump ahead from anything I don’t care to watch.

I’m a speed reader, so I usually do as you do and skim the transcript, but tonight, I was doing dishes and getting ready for bedtime chores, so I thought I’d get educated instead of wasting the time washing. The dishwashing was actually more interesting!

The 2x option wasn’t available (I find that a bit too quick, anyway), so I just washed and watched. Holy tamoles! Watching paint dry is more dynamic than this presenter!

[Edit: Well, I finished the webinar by reading the transcript. I couldn’t take the meaningless drone of the presenter, who was saying nothing useful or insightful. Nothwithsanding my continuing status as a staunch Oticonian, I’m embarrassed that the company would issue such bull crap and pass it off as educational.

If there ever was an example of meaningless marketing hype, then this is it!!! Still, nobody should mistake my criticism of a webinar for dissatisfaction with the More product. My More1s are still the best hearing instruments I’ve ever worn.]

When did the firmware update happen on the KS10s? I have had the Kirkland Signature 10.0T since June 16th fitting, and most recent appointment was on Sept 22 and she said there was no flag for any firmware updated needed on these aids.