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Returning to Phonak with the Infinio Sphere - the good the bad and the ugly

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Edited

Because of issues in noise with the Oticon Intents I made the decision to change to the Phonak Infinio Sphere. I thought I would just make some comments for the record.

The (fairly) good:

I had the fitting at Boots at the weekend. The audiologist was reasonably competent, but there was no . The first fit was not great. He used the fitting formula - 3.0, which to me, anyway, sounded dull and muffled. We tried raising the volume, but it wasn’t working. I suggested V5a, which I have on my NHS Oticon Xceed aids. Immediately better. He raised the volume, and it wasn’t bad. He gave me the roger and paired with the app.

I asked him (nervously) if they were locked. He said, no, they don’t lock their hearing aids (news to me). So I asked him if he didn’t mind if I changed some settings on Target. He said, sure, no problem.

So I got home and connected to the aids and retook my within “Audiogram direct”. I then had to increase the volume several notches. This is so annoying, in that I don’t understand why with Phonak the first fit settings are 6db to 9db underfit, and with the exception of one audiologist, this has always been the case.

Over the next couple of days, I have made adjustments to all streaming programs - essentially they were not loud enough. I have also made adjustments to Autosense. I am unsure of whether they are just teething problems or will be ongoing frustrations.

The bad:

There are 2 programs for speech and media streaming available for configuration within Target. Within those programs I had to increase the volume when I discovered that I was having a a problem with a Youtube program that I was watching. Essentially, much to my disbelief, I could hear background noise within the Youtube program. I have never heard this before, and this problem does not occur with my Intents. I am still having some difficulty watching Netflix if there is a show that has a lot of background noise. It drowns the speech a little.

The (downright) Ugly:

Now, I am writing the this from the lens of coming from wearing the Oticon Intents since November ‘24. I now dislike Autosense. Enormously. I have a dim view of what Dr Cliff says in his video about it being Phonak’s finest feature. I have been using the Intents for the last 15 months, and I now believe that whatever is going on with the Intents in terms of program switching, or adapting to the environment is a basically superior than the user experience I have had today from Autosense 7. This is my list of gripes so far:

  • Not switching out of bluetooth fast enough. This happens for example when I have had the Roger plugged in and walk away. I experience a dullness of sound, and after about 5 minutes I get that the chime that tells me it’s now disconnected. Okay - I realise this is probably configurable in some way.
  • Obvious transitioning between programs. I don’t know whether I now have heightened senses as a result of getting older (probably not) but I can perceive the transitioning really easily.
  • Comfort in noise. I am in the kitchen and have the air fryer on and listening to music. Autosense 7 says - “Comfort in noise” - it will make your life sweeter. NO NO NO NO. I do not want a 6db to 9db reduction and to feel like I am suddenly totally deaf. I go into target to get rid of it via the “Access” check box, but this does not get rid of it - as it still comes on during my testing, so I have to go in and put the same gain parameters in as for the Calm Situation program.
  • Speech in noise. So in the kitchen, with my air fryer on, and the music on, Autosense 7 goes into the “speech in noise” program. WHY? WHY Phonak? I am not talking. I DON’T want a 6 to 9 db reduction in gain - it’s totally frustrating and reminds you of your disability. I can’t hear the music now and it’s the same experience as for the Comfort in noise. I switch off the air fryer, and now Autosense 7, says, ahh, music, and goes into the music program, but the speed of transition seems too quick, despite the Autosense settings in Target set to a “balanced” transition. Also, I notice my voice being very dull in the speech in noise program. This is probably another adjustment I will have to make.
  • The app. I heard someone say that it’s far superior to the Oticon app, which was supposed to be useless. Hmm..I don’t know. Problems with the App so far - the battery life does not show the outstanding time of the aids - it just shows the percentage remaining. Hmm, I cannot set a default program so that when the aids come on, it goes to that program - like Calm situation. It goes to Automatic every time. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

Right now, if it wasn’t for the spheric speech mode, I would be taking these back and getting my money back. Unfortunately, I need them and cannot wait a year for Oticon to bring out their next aid. In terms of user experience, Oticon has been superior because I have not had to be aware of program changes or transitioning between programs, or the individual programs themselves. Once I had the REM fitting with Oticon, I have not been in need of any more adjustments. I have also had zero problems with the audibility of bluetooth (yes, I realise there is a lack of switchability between devices). The volume has always been exactly right for any bluetooth listening experience with Oticon. With Phonak I can suddenly hear background noise.

The most glaring difference with Phonak from the point of view with someone with a severe loss, like myself, is perceived drops in gain because Phonak has detected noise. This does not happen with Oticon. Whilst this will be unimportant to a lot of people on this forum, I think it’s a good discussion point and is a fundamental difference between the 2 approaches of the aids. Phonak tries to pre-empt problems in noise by reducing the gain and zooming etc, whereas Oticon doesn’t do this. For me, getting used to Oticon now presents me with a problem. I am not sure what to do. Waiting for the next iteration of Oticon will take a year and unfortunately I want to socialise quite a bit, so I’m stuck with the Phonak, which I’ll need to acclimatise to somewhat.

33 people in this conversation52 min readJump to latest

Try taking a look at the different gains in each program at a given frequency. If you see much difference you will get a noticable hearing change when auto sense changes programs.

Have you tried starting as a new client and use direct to set the prescription? Then try not to make big changes that create big changes between programs if that makes any sense. Autosense should be bumpless and not noticable. If it is that’s a programming issue.

Good luck with this

I am sorry that you are having such problem. As you know I had been wearing the Intent1 since the summer of 2024 and got the Spheres in December. My audiologist did an awesome job of setting up my Sphetes. I didn’t have any issues getting use to my Spheres. Sure I could use some minor adjustments which I will get the first of April. When I agreed to the Spheres I said I needed them adjusted as close as possible to my Intent1 aids plus the needed speech in noisy environments. He did that much better than I thought possible.
Note my Spheres aren’t updated to the Ultra firewall.

In reply to @Raudrive

Thanks for that Raudrive. Yes, I did start out as a new client. And I have tried to minimise the changes. I will do some further tweaks. I am hoping it will become more manageable and the transitions less noticeable in the future.

In reply to @cvkemp

Thanks Cvkemp. Yes, it is early days. Kudos to your audiologist who did a great job. I will be seeking advice from mine to hopefully resolve these issues.

I would try a switch to NAL NL2 @glucas it takes a little bit of getting used to, but once I acclimatised, I will use no other… Good Luck, cheers Kev :wink:

Edited
@glucas said:

I cannot set a default program so that when the aids come on, it goes to that program - like Calm situation. It goes to Automatic every time. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

This is easily sorted in Target:

  1. Add an additional programme (I add: Calm Situation, Music, Speech in noise - You might be wise adding Spheric Speech in loud noise).

  2. Go into Program manager. Select one of your additional programs as Startup. You can also disable Autosense on this screen.

I keep Autosense as a switchable option with my “90’s” as the Speech in car & Comfort in echo can help in rare situations. I disable Autosense in all my “70’s”.

I’m totally with you on your Autosense arguments. For example, in Speech in noise, I minimise ALL the noise reduction and just rely on beamforming. I find their noise reduction also makes the person I’m trying to hear sound dull. I do the same with the noise reduction in all programs. I also allow overtuning to around 8 , and boost G50 gains from 1k-4k a few notches.

Good luck

Hi Peter,

Many thanks for your suggestions. That will be a big help when I come to test them in noise. I am unsure about disabling Autosense completely as that seems radical, but it obviously works for you! But being able to switch to back to Autosense from Calm Situation is something I had not considered to be possible - a great idea if you want to move from a known environment to a more varied one.

I use the autosense as my main program but I have saved a Calm program because as times autosense switches to Speech in noise to fast.

By the way, forgot to mention, the audiologist at Boots told me they were getting in 4 to 6 months time. Don’t know if it’s nationwide, but it’s interesting anyway. I plan on going back for the REM measurement.

@glucas

Thanks for your post. I am still fighting with my Audeo Paradise P90’s. It’s time that the hearing aid masters got it right.

how can hearing aids be medical equipment

I’m very grateful that some people are happy with the way their hearing aids work.

I reminded my hearing aid specialist that WSIB hasn’t responded to my request fr early replacement.

I wish I knew how to do hearing tests myself.

I wish I had instructions for programming. However, I have a Mac. And little computer skill.

DaveL

Thank you, I am aware of NAL NL3 @DaveL I have been awaiting its release to try it out, since it was posted up in a thread on this forum several months ago, I haven’t heard if it has been released in the UK yet? Cheers Kev :wink:

In reply to @PeterH

It is extremely rare for me to use anything other than Autosense Peter, in fact, I can go for several weeks without adjusting anything whatsoever… But, I am reminded of the fact, we are all different, we all hear differently… Cheers Kev :wink:

Edited

In reply to @kevels55

Thoughts.

I hear others have good communication with Phonak in other countries

I was excited when I heard NA NL3 was out well it wasn’t available here.

I volunteer to Phonak to participate in focus groups for top grade hearing aids

I’m only 5 minutes from Sonova near Toronto airport

Edit I would like to volunteer to Sonova I didn’t catch how my iPhone changed my wording Or my cognitive loss is worse than I thought

DaveL

Glucas, you’ve been around the block before so you certainly must realize the Infinio Sphere is (1) not an Up power aid and (2) isn’t the proper hearing aid to handle your hearing loss. You’re fighting a losing battle here and asking for too much from a aid that was designed for someone with a mid-range hearing loss. Also, I would never invest or trial in a expensive roger accessory until I was first satifiied with the hearing aid I purchased. Since you’re not happy with the Infinio Sphere, its a waste to time to pair it with a Roger.

In reply to @kevels55

@kevels55 said:

It is extremely rare for me to use anything other than Autosense Peter, in fact, I can go for several weeks without adjusting anything whatsoever… But, I am reminded of the fact, we are all different, we all hear differently… Cheers Kev

I really get this. I think there are a few factors why we differ on this:

  1. Our hearing losses are different and, I believe, it may be a huge factor on which fitting program is best for you. From what I’ve read, I believe may suit Profound users more than Severe. Just my personal take. My default is still .

  2. I now use Calm situation as my start up, but I remove the noise reduction, as it takes away clarity. I can’t hear dangerous situations like gas hobs, or running water. If I really want silence, I just take them out, which I do often.

  3. For streaming and music (with my loss, and 3mm vented deep moulds) I find APD terrible. I can’t hear any bass frequencies. I do believe APD is designed for “speech only”. I then have had a look at DSLv5a (adult) to see their and Gains. I return to APD, but put the MPOs and gains into Music and the 2 streaming programs. Streaming and music is very much enhanced, but speech clarity suffers. I believe this is because of upwards masking.

All good fun

In reply to @Baileyhere

I would think @glucas is borderline even with 105db receivers, but there is no harm in trying @Baileyhere… Hell, I would give them a go, if they allowed me to, but another Audiologist (not my current one) didn’t think it was feasible, so I had to bite the bullet and except their decision…Cheers Kev :wink:

In reply to @PeterH

Yeah Peter, I do understand… Personally, I have never experienced silence in many, many years! I hear plenty white noise though, sometimes it goes off the scale, usually when I am ill, but I have learned to dial the Tinnitus down, if I concentrate hard enough, I can basically switch it off, or down to a peep… like you, I sometimes wing my aids, it makes me feel good, to have a day off from hearing, if I need to communicate with my wife, I just sign… I also think, most musicians are persnickety about what they actually want to hear, and probably the toughest to actually fit if they are severe, or above, and most Audiologists will have their work cut out, to get anywhere near a reasonable fit… Cheers Kev :wink:

Edited

In reply to @Baileyhere

Baileyhere,

As Kev said, I am on the borderline between severe and profound, and as luck would have it, I am able to wear with a UP 105dB receiver. I do agree with you though that it does seem a first glance that I would definitely need a super power aid. When I was upgraded a couple of years ago with the NHS they fitted me with a standard Oticon Engage and it was just not powerful enough, so they then gave me an Oticon Xceed SP, which was excellent. I thought it would be the case that a RIC UP would not be enough, but I have found with the Intents and the Spheres, that I have been Okay.

With respect to Roger, this has been recommended by both the NHS and the current audiologist. I find it useful in classroom situations - to give to the teacher to wear as a mic and to place on the table. I do not use it in any other situations currently.

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