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Starkey Otolens - my review

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Edited

Hi JPMAR,
No problem, I get confused by some of the threads! It does seem to me though why it’s important to trial as wide a range range of manufactures as possible. The debate between yourself & dr.amy does rather show up that what one person finds ok another one finds unsuitable, even between people with the same loss. It’s probable that your BOTH correct. I suppose it comes down to the fact that if it floats your boat then go for it!! Good you’ve found aids that that your happy with & works for you. Cheers.

In reply to @jpmar

@jpmar said:

Hi Dontay,

My comment was not referring to your post but to Dr.Amy’s 03/08 caricatural comment on Siemens allegedly poorer feedback rejection than Oticon’s or Phonak’s:
Siemens Pure??? Not hardly - unless he likes listening to a constant high-pitched feedback…
Sorry that my Q-Reply could not be posted after his own message which I should have clearly quoted.

As for feedback rejection hypes from hearing aid manufacturers, I agree with you that their solutions are not full proof but they certainly make a difference, up to a point. If you ask for extreme amplification, the shorter the distance between the microphone and the speaker, the more feedback will be a problem whatever one does to prevent it. More so with CIC aids.

Well with the Siemens Pure 700 line of technology, it wasn’t a caricatural comment but fact based on fitting many many many of them and having to sacrifice gain to acheive feedback free fittings. If you notice, my comment was in august of 2010 and I was not fitting the 701 line of aids like you have. The 701 line of aids does in fact have a better algorithm than their previous attempt.

Are there feedback free aids for large losses - NO. Do some manufacturers do it much better than others - YES.

But I;m not even sure if I’m quoting and replying to the right person - now I’m confused :wink:

dr. amy

I’m 28, and I’ve been wearing hearing aids since I was 3. I’ve got about a 60db loss in the low mid frequencies in both ears. I wore Starkeys when I was younger, but I’ve been wearing Siemens since 2001, and when going into the audiologist this week for new hearing aid talks I was convinced to try out the Otolens. They’ve been ordered and are on their way. I’ll give my own review about my experience with them when they come in.

I’ve got different sound needs than a lot of people as I do work with live audio and I like an aid that most accurately and naturally produces the actual sound with minimal processing effects. The fact that they are closer to the eardrum is what sold me, not really on a visibility standpoint, but just that in theory they’ll hopefully just help me hear a little more naturally; I don’t need any fancy directional mics or anything.

I’ve been happy with the Siemens sound quality in the aids I’ve worn so we’ll see how different these are. The CICs I wear are pretty dang small already so I’m curious to see just how much small these Otolenses are.

In reply to @dontay

@dontay said:

Thank you for your comments. I can see your point about jack of all trades & master of none! But I’m not SURE!? How would we get on if we had NO choice?

I’m not sure I was advocating for NO choice! Merely suggesting that a hearing professional can only do so much ongoing training on top of running his business and taking care of his patients. The more different brands he tries to learn, the more he is likely to miss the nuance of some of the tiny little software quirks of each manufacturer that might make the difference between happy patient and sad patient.

Keep in mind too that the more business he sends to one specific manufacturer, the lower his wholesale costs are likely to be, and the more the manufacturer is likely to jump when he picks up the phone.

If I open a practice tomorrow and stock five different brands, sending them all one order a week, I will pay more for those aids, get less attention from them when I call, and have to spend more of my time trying to learn about each product than if I dealt with just one or two brands.

@dontay said:

DO agree that cheap may not be the best and I certainly understand what you say about ‘on-costs’ but when you consider that Starkey Otolens/Soundlens prices that I was quoted ranged from £1800 each to £2700 each (and I need TWO!!)forgive me for stating the obvious but THAT’S a difference of £900 PER aid!!!for the SAME aids!! Sorry… but there is my humble opinion… “no matter how you slice it”… some ripping of going on! OR some places have horrendous on-costs!!

That is a large difference for the same aids, but there can be legitimate reasons for that, and not just about ripping people off.

If I open a practice tomorrow fitting three different manufacturers, I am going to have to spend a fortune on advertising just to get my name out there. My lack of loyalty to one manufacturer (which you as a patient prefer) is costing me in wholesale costs. In fact some of the programs that help me with advertising costs (as an example) may not be open to me, thus ensuring more overheads. Maybe I hire better staff that cost more money, that costs too.

Conversely if I have been in business since 1973, and have a huge referral base of happy patients sending me business, I’ve gotten cozy with two manufacturers and send most of my business to one of them, I am getting price breaks like crazy from the primary manufacturer, my advertising budget can be smaller because I am ‘known’ in the town. Maybe my office is bought and paid for by then. Maybe my wife is the receptionist, and we just take a joint salary out of the business which is less than hiring a stranger. See the difference?

And the thing is, unlike products like the iPhone, we are not talking millions of products sold. A busy successful hearing aid practice with one hearing professional might only sell 10-20 units in a week. It could be less frankly.

So there needs to be enough profit in just 5-10 sales in a week to pay for all the staff, overheads, advertising, and personal salary. As well as enough profit to keep the business going and take care of existing patients. Rarely do hearing centers charge for a hearing test, and there is usually only a nominal markup on accessories like batteries. People expect to come back over and over again for adjustments, cleaning, servicing, re-testing, re-programming etc.

Bottom line here is that I respectfully submit to you that as well as I know the industry, the guy charging £900 more is not ripping you off, he is simply in a different place than the cheaper guy. And it isn’t necessarily the case that buying from him would be a mistake.

I’ve known a lot of dispensers over the years, I’ve probably met hundreds here in the US and back there in the UK when I worked there. They weren’t driving Porsches, living in mansions and wearing Rolex watches. The good ones I’ve seen make an above average living somewhere between a teacher and dentist. Although many make less than that.

In any case, it’s great that you found a good guy who is working well with you. That’s the ticket in this industry.

@ZCT said:

I’m not sure I was advocating for NO choice! Merely suggesting that a hearing professional can only do so much ongoing training on top of running his business and taking care of his patients. The more different brands he tries to learn, the more he is likely to miss the nuance of some of the tiny little software quirks of each manufacturer that might make the difference between happy patient and sad patient.

Keep in mind too that the more business he sends to one specific manufacturer, the lower his wholesale costs are likely to be, and the more the manufacturer is likely to jump when he picks up the phone.

If I open a practice tomorrow and stock five different brands, sending them all one order a week, I will pay more for those aids, get less attention from them when I call, and have to spend more of my time trying to learn about each product than if I dealt with just one or two brands.

That is a large difference for the same aids, but there can be legitimate reasons for that, and not just about ripping people off.

If I open a practice tomorrow fitting three different manufacturers, I am going to have to spend a fortune on advertising just to get my name out there. My lack of loyalty to one manufacturer (which you as a patient prefer) is costing me in wholesale costs. In fact some of the programs that help me with advertising costs (as an example) may not be open to me, thus ensuring more overheads. Maybe I hire better staff that cost more money, that costs too.

Conversely if I have been in business since 1973, and have a huge referral base of happy patients sending me business, I’ve gotten cozy with two manufacturers and send most of my business to one of them, I am getting price breaks like crazy from the primary manufacturer, my advertising budget can be smaller because I am ‘known’ in the town. Maybe my office is bought and paid for by then. Maybe my wife is the receptionist, and we just take a joint salary out of the business which is less than hiring a stranger. See the difference?

And the thing is, unlike products like the iPhone, we are not talking millions of products sold. A busy successful hearing aid practice with one hearing professional might only sell 10-20 units in a week. It could be less frankly.

So there needs to be enough profit in just 5-10 sales in a week to pay for all the staff, overheads, advertising, and personal salary. As well as enough profit to keep the business going and take care of existing patients. Rarely do hearing centers charge for a hearing test, and there is usually only a nominal markup on accessories like batteries. People expect to come back over and over again for adjustments, cleaning, servicing, re-testing, re-programming etc.

Bottom line here is that I respectfully submit to you that as well as I know the industry, the guy charging £900 more is not ripping you off, he is simply in a different place than the cheaper guy. And it isn’t necessarily the case that buying from him would be a mistake.

I’ve known a lot of dispensers over the years, I’ve probably met hundreds here in the US and back there in the UK when I worked there. They weren’t driving Porsches, living in mansions and wearing Rolex watches. The good ones I’ve seen make an above average living somewhere between a teacher and dentist. Although many make less than that.

In any case, it’s great that you found a good guy who is working well with you. That’s the ticket in this industry.

Hi ZTC, just want to say first off that I have every admiration for you guys, especially after my experiences!!! (& not just the audio I’m seeing at the moment) THAT’S definitely a given! Also the way you’ve set out & explained the business is tremendous too & I doubt anyone could argue with the costs & difficulties of running a professional business. Thank you for all that & hope that one day you WILL be able to afford a mansion, drive a Porsche & wear a Rolex!! :slight_smile: But yes, I can see that there ARE going to be cost differences between different companies, depending on all sorts of things but I still say that a £900 difference for one aid is sure going some! I would have thought that anyone who spends a wee bit of time doing some basic research isn’t willingly going to pay THAT sort of difference… but I suppose it does take all sorts to make a world & maybe some one who lives in mansion wouldn’t worry about it!

Funnily enough the top price I was quoted actually came from what is probably the biggest, oldest & well known (certainly by the older generation) chain in the UK. Judging by the full on ‘campaign’ adverts in the national press every month they MUST have an enormous advertising budget! I’m afraid I decided that I’m not going to be the fool that pay’s for it!! The cheapest quote I had was also from a national chain (but owned by Starkey!) My audiologist (independent) couldn’t quite match it but quoted a price at the lower end of the scale… I decided to pay a bit more simply to have the benefit of completely independent expertise & no loyalty to any particular manufacturer! That was probably a bad cost decision on my part but the guy IS great so no problem!

As for the ‘choice’ issue… I know you’re personally biased towards Starkey & honestly make no secret of that… & I’ve certainly had top- notch service from them, that’s for sure! I CAN see your point from a ‘price break’ supply & demand view but (always a but!) as a user I would be wondering if I had received the best aid for my circumstances or if I had missed out on something better because my choices had been restricted to only a couple of makers. For instance Siemens have now come out with the only real (as yet) competition for the Soundlens … I’m trialling the Soundlens at the moment & although my canals are fine for IIC’s I only just make it in the decibel loss stakes & so have to put up with the consequent feedback issues… if I want IIC’s. Starkey & Siemens both claim to have the bees knees in best feedback management. I now HAVE to consider if the Imini might manage that better for me & although I don’t know yet how the Imini stands up in other respects with the Soundlens… as I now have an unexpected choice I’m going to have to be having a word with my Audiologist about the spec. with a view to trialling them regardless of my feelings of wanting to stay loyal to Starkey. Hope all that makes sense… sorry if we may differ a bit but if you ever get back to the UK & fancy a stay in sunny Bournemouth…get in contact… I don’t drive a Porsche but the house has got a pool & it’s a fair size!!! my wife’s a good cook & the wines good too … you’d be made very welcome :slight_smile:

@dontay said:

Funnily enough the top price I was quoted actually came from what is probably the biggest, oldest & well known (certainly by the older generation) chain in the UK. Judging by the full on ‘campaign’ adverts in the national press every month they MUST have an enormous advertising budget! I’m afraid I decided that I’m not going to be the fool that pay’s for it!! The cheapest quote I had was also from a national chain (but owned by Starkey!) My audiologist (independent) couldn’t quite match it but quoted a price at the lower end of the scale… I decided to pay a bit more simply to have the benefit of completely independent expertise & no loyalty to any particular manufacturer! That was probably a bad cost decision on my part but the guy IS great so no problem!

I used to work for a couple of those chains back in the day. Hidden Hearing and Amplivox/Ultratone/Sietech (couldn’t seem to pick one name!).

On the one hand the chains have enormous buying power and command amazing wholesale prices from the manufacturers as a result. But their overheads are incredible, a national infrastructure, local and national marketing campaigns, support staff, company cars, free home visits (at least when I was there), etc. Not to mention the high rolling board of directors, and in some cases shareholders.

@dontay said:

As for the ‘choice’ issue… I know you’re personally biased towards Starkey & honestly make no secret of that… & I’ve certainly had top- notch service from them, that’s for sure! I CAN see your point from a ‘price break’ supply & demand view but (always a but!) as a user I would be wondering if I had received the best aid for my circumstances or if I had missed out on something better because my choices had been restricted to only a couple of makers. For instance Siemens have now come out with the only real (as yet) competition for the Soundlens IIC… I’m trialling the Soundlens at the moment & although my canals are fine for IIC’s I only just make it in the decibel loss stakes & so have to put up with the consequent feedback issues… if I want IIC’s. Starkey & Siemens both claim to have the bees knees in best feedback management. I now HAVE to consider if the Imini might manage that better for me & although I don’t know yet how the Imini stands up in other respects with the Soundlens… as I now have an unexpected choice I’m going to have to be having a word with my Audiologist about the spec. with a view to trialling them regardless of my feelings of wanting to stay loyal to Starkey.

Trust me, I completely understand your desire to shop and evaluate. I’m a consumer too. Actually what amazes me is how often I see people make a decision for as much as $8,000 without shopping around, researching online, visiting different professionals etc. My whole career I have really been amazed at how many people will meet me for the first time and a couple of hours later, having done no other research, hand over a check or credit card for thousands of dollars.

Even now in the age of the Internet, I see people, even younger people, who just come in, have a test, and drop thousands of dollars. I would never dream of doing such a thing myself, but hey, it makes my job easier!

In recent times I am beginning to see a few more savvy consumers, and I’m sure the Internet will create more in the future. But I pride myself in being an expert in my field, and of the hearing instruments I dispense, so I am not afraid of an informed patient.

@dontay said:

Hope all that makes sense… sorry if we may differ a bit but if you ever get back to the UK & fancy a stay in sunny Bournemouth…get in contact… I don’t drive a Porsche but the house has got a pool & it’s a fair size!!! my wife’s a good cook & the wines good too … you’d be made very welcome :slight_smile:

Thank you for that lovely offer. I think Bournemouth is a great place. As a trainee my mentor lived and worked there, and I spent many fun times learning my trade working with someone I have enormous respect for back in the early 90s. I dare say I still have some patients living in Portsmouth, as I volunteered to cover that area for a while when a dispenser went on leave. But I lived and dispensed in the Bristol / Gloucestershire area mainly.

Anyway, while I would love to stay in Bournemouth, enjoying the nice weather, and avoiding the over priced British hotels, when my wife and I travel back to the UK we have to spend most of our time visiting my parents who sadly retired to Yorkshire which let’s face it, is no Bournemouth! :rolleyes:

In reply to @skunker

@skunker said:

For those with the Otolens/iSync …do you guys feel like you have something stuffed in your ear when you wear them?

My left ear is fine…no “plugged” sensation there, but my right ear canal feels like it’s plugged. I had my audi trim down the aid, but it’s still feeling quite stuffed in there.

I have only had the Soundlens for a few days, but I am quickly getting used to them. In some ways I feel as though I could have used more help from the audi. This is my first time wearing , and I was given just real basic instructions on how to insert them. I am learning a lot on my own basically. As they start to fit better, I am really impressed by the invisibility of them and the performance. WOW! I was at an outdoor party today and I was really able to follow all the conversation going on. I am really impressed with the Soundlens.

For your question, yes and no. I think it is really about fit. At first, the left was pretty good, but the right felt stuffed. I think I have figured out (on my own) how to really get a great fit. This works for me, and maybe, just maybe, it will help you as well. Try taking the opposite hand (left hand for your right ear, and vice versa) and try pulling the skin (gently of course :slight_smile: ) near your eye/forehead/cheek, etc. towards your nose (which seems to widen and open up the ear canal). While you do this with your head turned towards your left side, use your index finger on your right hand (to the right ear) and insert the Soundlens. It goes in easily for me, and basically locks it into place. I have found that this method works really well for me. It allows me to easily and tightly insert the aid deep within my canal. It doesn’t move, hurt, and it is definitely deeper than it previously was. I also noticed that as the aid gets near the ear drum, the sound is clearer and has less feedback. Hopefully this helps.

In reply to @aprsl

@aprsl said:

Shocking that your audi let you leave the office without sufficient training or without them realizing that you were not inserting them correctly.

I was in a similar boat with my audi. She first told me that I might not be happy with the fit (they weren’t anywhere near as far as they could or should go). Didn’t really go over how to get them in. The first couple of days it was uncomfortable. But I was determined and figured it out on my own how to put them in properly. They are now virtually invisible (someone would have to look very hard to see them and also have the perfect lighting). The sound is good, my speech comprehension is close to normal I would say, and they have made a huge improvement! Very happy. Can’t put a price on being able to hear and feeling good about the hearing aids.

Hello everyone.

These hearing aids had a horrific death. My dog just ate them BOTH over the weekend. Now, I’m scrambling trying to find out how to get a new pair without breaking the bank…my insurance company does not pay for them and my actual hearing aid warranty has expired (2 months ago).

A loss at what to do…

In reply to @Malatesta

@Malatesta said:

I’m 28, and I’ve been wearing hearing aids since I was 3. I’ve got about a 60db loss in the low mid frequencies in both ears. I wore Starkeys when I was younger, but I’ve been wearing Siemens CICs since 2001, and when going into the audiologist this week for new hearing aid talks I was convinced to try out the Otolens. They’ve been ordered and are on their way. I’ll give my own review about my experience with them when they come in.

I’ve got different sound needs than a lot of people as I do work with live audio and I like an aid that most accurately and naturally produces the actual sound with minimal processing effects. The fact that they are closer to the eardrum is what sold me, not really on a visibility standpoint, but just that in theory they’ll hopefully just help me hear a little more naturally; I don’t need any fancy directional mics or anything.

I’ve been happy with the Siemens sound quality in the aids I’ve worn so we’ll see how different these are. The CICs I wear are pretty dang small already so I’m curious to see just how much small these Otolenses are.

Malatesta,
I know your post was long ago but was curious if you ended up getting these and what the results were. I have a similar hearing loss in the low end and I’m not sure whether these might work for me or not. So far, I’ve tried 2 different using 2 different audiologists with very poor results. Neither helped me hear better. I’ve done some research on reverse slope loss but neither of these audiologists were knowledgeable about programming for that kind of loss. If any of the professionals here would comment on whether they think this might be workable for me, please let me know.

Thanks!

An interesting update…

I paid over 7k for these back when they were released in early 2010. Luckily, insurance paid about 2k of that…but still…the price tag stung for years.

After a bit of research, I’ve been able to find local audiologists that will sell brand new ones for 1,999/ear! That also includes services, repair, and 3 year warranty. Not bad, imho. Still a bit high, but this is a bit more workable.

Edited

Here’s how I did it:

1.) Go to truhearing.com and you will see pricing for the 3 versions of Soundlens: 7, 9, and 11. http://www.truhearing.com/hearing_aid_products/starkey/soundlens_93 . The version9 is for 2195/ear!

Or,

2.) Call or email various audiologists around your area and ask them for their best price. I was able to find one that gave me a better deal (about $200 less per ear) than truhearing.com!

After you do all that, contact Starkey headquarters and have them personally fit you these things because most of the audiologists I have talked to do not have much experience. I figured if i"m going to pay top dollar for these devices AND they are such an important aspect to my social life, I might as well get the best engineers/audiologists to work with—GO STRAIGHT TO THE SOURCE. Starkey will fit you a new impression, give you a brand new , etc. for FREE, as long as your Soundlens is under warranty. They will even pick you up at the airport AND give you a discount at a nice local hotel to stay at. The only thing you have to do is pay for your own airfare there. After all that is done, you can transport the tweaked files to your audiologist so they can keep them on file. Also, you can do follow up visits with your own local audiologist (unless you want to fly to Starkey HQ again, lol).

Edited

In all honesty, going with the cheapest price on a product with a big potential for fit issues and failures as discussed further up in the thread is unlikely to yield the best customer experience. Of all the products I have fitted in the last few years the one with the most RTM (Return To Manufacturer) issues is the the Soundlens.

Given that you are going to be spending a fair amount of time in their office, I reckon it’s fairly sensible to strike up a good relationship with a dispenser/Audiologist who is nearby and has experience of fitting them.

Edited

Never fitted one, I used to run in lots of issues with their product; primarily because they used to hand finish them blindfolded or so we thought. Their product reliability on the modular Be series was appalling and the Live series seems to require more repairs than other similar ITE.

Given the specific difficulties of the format: I’m not going to risk my customers’ patience.

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