Most Powerful CIC

Starkey is good. Siemens makes a power CIC with bluetooth. I’ve used a Starkey CIC and have been trialing a Rexton RIC-BTE. I good fitting RIC-BTE is more hidden than a CIC (in my unscientific, limited experience). There are pluses and minuses with both styles.

You might get some extra feedback prevention with separating the speaker and mic. But, if your loss is to the point you have to have a completely occluded, sealed fit then you might as well have a CIC.

@dsi1 said:

Your best bet would probably be another Starkey CIC because as far as I know they make the most powerful CICs. Good luck!

I concur with this. Starkey have power CICs that are not even shown on the Starkey or Starkey Pro web site. I just looked in my fitting software and I can order 71dB of gain as standard, but I know there is a more powerful undocumented device if you need more than this.

Add to this power level the fact that Starkey has the best feedback cancellation system currently available and more of this power is available without the risk of feedback or near feedback distortion.

As of right now they can’t do wireless or remotes on the CIC. However if you go with the RIC style, it has the same gain and basically looks like a CIC with a small capsule behind the ear. This one can do wireless, remote, blue tooth, and stereo streaming from a TV or any other sound input.

If it were me, I’d go with that. It has the added advantage of dual microphones which will give you better hearing in a noisy situation, and binaural spacial mapping where the aids ‘talk’ to each other in real time and figure out the best way to help you in each given situation based on a better ‘understanding’ of the situation you are in.

It’s hard to know if that last very important feature will ever exist on a CIC because there would not be enough space to fit the antenna.

@monolithic said:

Thanks guys - I appreciate the advice.

I am very interested in the Starkey CICs. I shave my head daily, so there is absolutely no chance of anything not being noticed other than a CIC form factor.

ZCT, are you talking about the Starkey IQ 11 CIC? Is that the model that has the 71 dB gain?

These forums are a great resource and I wish I had found them sooner!

Best,

M.

Sorry for the delay in answering your question. I’ve been busy this month seen a LOT of new patients.

Actually that power of amp is available in pretty much any Starkey CIC. The specific model will determine how ‘clever’ it is in background noise, how good it sounds, and how closely it can match your loss, but in terms of ‘horse power’ I think even the most basic aid can be fitted with a 71dB gain amp.

@monolithic said:

Hi all,

I’m new here. Just registered and this is my first post. I tried to search for what I’m about to ask next and didn’t see anything recent, so I apologize beforehand if this has been asked before.

Basically, I have a severe to profound hearing loss in the mid-range to low frequency ranges from auditory nerve damage in both ears.

I am aware that the best fit/solution for me is a BTE aid. However, I’m just not comfortable wearing them.

For the past 7-8 years I’ve been wearing a Starkey analog CIC aid (maybe it’s a Starkey T?). I got it around 2003 or so.

My question is, what is the most powerful CIC aid available. I’d love to have technology like Bluetooth, wireless remote, etc - but realize that in a CIC form-factor that might not be possible.

However, my needs/wants are: CIC form-factor and the highest gain available. Bluetooth, wireless remote, etc are all optional.

My current search on Google is returning too many advertisements/fluff material that isn’t relevant. I did find a .pdf from Starkey but it dated back to 2008. I can’t find anything recent.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Michael

dear sir Starkey is most powerful , but see ric in Resound Alera 9, which has all features,regards
ravikiran

There are two very powerful CIC hearing aids. Starkey Destiny “Extreme power” and Siemens “Motion 701” CIC. Both of them provide near 75 DB gain. Michael I also have similar hearing loss as yours and I also like to stay with CIC and had Starkey before switching. I tried both of these hearing aids and they were extremely loud and powerful hearing aids for profound hearing loss. The Starkey has capability of changing the volume via cellphone or ipad (wireless) and great technical support for adjusting the hearing aid programs remotely. But I did not like its sound quality. If you were wearing Analog, you will have very difficult time to adjust to “Destiny” Starkey. Siemens sounds more like analog hearing aids and I hear high frequencies well while everything sounds more natural to me. Starkey sounds very shrill that hard to discriminate. However Siemens is more expensive and does not have any wireless control for CIC. I never had any problem with whistling with either of them.

I returned Starkey after a month of using it. Now I am trying Siemens and It is my first day and so far I am happy.

This is more detail on my experience with “Destiny Power extreme” Starkey. I had 4 programs. One for telephone (extremely bad quality), one for noise reduction (great noises reduction but worse possible sound quality), one for far distance (I loved this setting. I could hear very far distance. Great for lectures and TV) and last one for normal conversation. All the memories more and less had same sound quality of robotic and shrill.

Please let me know if you need any details on any of these hearing aids.

@ZCT said:

With the greatest respect, the Starkey aids do not have an inherent shrillness to them at all. Clearly they were not programmed correctly to your needs.

I would bet good money that if you brought your Siemens aids to me, I could program the Starkey to sound exactly the same or better. There are over a billion adjustment combinations possible in a high end Starkey aid, and there is no truth in the statement that they all have a naturally shrill sound to them.

As for the maximum power, they advertise a 71dB gain amplifier but they have more power available, but they simply don’t offer it as standard. But I know it is possible to get more. Of course, just like the number of cylinders in a car engine doesn’t tell the whole of the story, the gain isn’t the only thing to know. The feedback management system has been proven to be number one in the world right now, adding 25dB of added stable gain without restricting frequency output, so this allows more use of the power without getting close to distortion levels or losing sound you want to amplify like many feedback management systems out there.

Steady on, people will start to think you are in their paid employ.

Just as an aside, would you routinely fit power CIC’s to this level, my main reason for asking is that (apart from breakdowns) aren’t you asking a lot from the equipment to be working at this level all day everyday? Wouldn’t a meatier receiver in a larger ITE be a better option for the customer?

The Starkey software is indeed very powerful. However during my one month trial, although both my audiologist and Starkey rep (via remote access) tried adjusting it many times in many different ways, still it did not work for me. Each time they were improving one feature, it was getting worse on other.

Many years ago, I used to program my own hearing aid because I was doing the software development for hearing aids. It is fantastic when you can adjust your hearing aid based on what you hear. By just looking at the Starkey software while my audiologist using it, I was impressed with some of its programming features. Most of all I loved the “sound point” of the Starkey program. The fact that Starkey is pioneer on allowing the hearing aid wearer to adjust his/her hearing aid based on what he/she hears and not based on what she has to explain to someone else to adjust it for her/him. But sound point was not available on CIC version and that a big lack for adjusting it. By changing different channels, compressions, or program setting (I had estat setting) improves some feature but worse the other. Overall I loved the programming capability of Starkey but I was very unhappy with its sound quality. I believe Starkey worked very hard on noise reduction that compromised the sound quality of this model significantly.

@Um_bongo said:

Steady on, people will start to think you are in their paid employ.

Just as an aside, would you routinely fit power CIC’s to this level, my main reason for asking is that (apart from breakdowns) aren’t you asking a lot from the equipment to be working at this level all day everyday? Wouldn’t a meatier receiver in a larger ITE be a better option for the customer?

Ha

Well in all fairness, find me someone claiming to provide more than 25dB added stable gain…

No, personally, I think it’s all about RIC these days. This has become 90% of my business in this day and age.

When you make a custom product there is so much more scope for problems, while a RIC style aid can be sealed to make it water proof, the case is designed to fit all the components without compromise, it’s the way to go for most people in my opinion.

With the option of 71dB receivers a RIC can fit almost any loss these days (especially if it has the WORLD’S NUMBER ONE FEEDBACK SYSTEM IN IT :rolleyes: ) and you don’t have to worry about wax or water for most models. I also like that you are not blowing sound through a long tube as you are with a BTE.

CIC was always a compromise, exchange some functionality for invisibility. Although when they first came out, they were among the best available for some loss. But with technology available today, I find RIC has WAY more options.

THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY STARKEY - SO THE WORLD MAY HEAR

PS I wonder if anyone will read anything into the fact that this was post #666 for me…

@Um_bongo said:

Wouldn’t a meatier receiver in a larger ITE be a better option for the customer?

The better hearing aid for a customer is a hearing aid they will wear, not keep in a box. With the best will in the world, if the customer is only prepared to wear a CIC then no matter the bells and whistles or improved gain that ITE or BTE or RITE solutions offer, it’s got to be in their ears to be any use, and I hope that doesn’t come over patronising. I’ve had a lot of hearing aids I’ve kept in my bedside cabinet over the years because they were ugly or uncomfortable - often both!

Some can be talked around, others it’s not going to happen and better to jump on board with what is being asked for or say I’m sorry I don’t believe I can fit you with something that will have satisfactory performance, feel free to try an alternative audiologist. This guy sounds like he doesn’t want to entertain other solutions.

Opinion obviously just as a hearing aid user, but YKWIM, people aren’t going to wear what they won’t wear. I would personally talk anyone who seems potentially open to other solutions into going BTE but I don’t think this is one of those customers.

@wishtohear said:

The model was Destiny eXtreme Power Starkey CIC .

Ah. Well since the Destiny, there have been three generations of improvements at Starkey (4 if you consider RIC products).

Destiny is so old fashioned by today’s standards our stores don’t even list it on the price list anymore, although I believe some models are still available.

It was a good aid back in the day but obsolete today.

Would you please tell me what other newer models Starkey have for providing 75+ DB gain on CIC? I was told that for CIC this model is the most powerful one and there is nothing else made by Starkey that goes beyond 75 db gain.

You mentioned that there are 3 more models created after Destiny eXtreme Power. Please give me the names of those models that have 75+ db gain for CIC (not interested on RIC or BTE or ITE, etc…) . I am only interested on CIC.

I am looking forward to your response because I am on trail period of Siemens and if there is anything better on Starkey (CIC only), I would like to try them before buying this one.

@wishtohear said:

Would you please tell me what other newer models Starkey have for providing 75+ DB gain on CIC? I was told that for CIC this model is the most powerful one and there is nothing else made by Starkey that goes beyond 75 db gain.

You mentioned that there are 3 more models created after Destiny eXtreme Power. Please give me the names of those models that have 75+ db gain for CIC (not interested on RIC or BTE or ITE, etc…) . I am only interested on CIC.

I am looking forward to your response because I am on trail period of Siemens and if there is anything better on Starkey (CIC only), I would like to try them before buying this one.

The Starkey S Series IQ, can go to 71dB:

http://www.starkeypro.com/public/professionals/products/hearing-aids/s-series-iq/specifications-cic.jsp

The cheaper S Series 5, can also go to 71dB of gain:

http://www.starkeypro.com/public/professionals/products/hearing-aids/s-series-5/specifications-cic.jsp1

Both of these models are newer and superior to the Destiny range, the IQ having the extra advantage of voice recognition which can greatly enhance background noise suppression.

Now although they only advertise 71dB of gain, remember that more of this is usable than many other brands because of superior feedback cancellation.

I can tell you on good authority that they can get more gain out of these aids if they have to, but they don’t currently advertise anything higher than 71dB of gain in a CIC. But I know for a fact they have gone several decibels higher than this when they need to. Frankly though, they don’t need to very often and don’t want some horse power happy hearing professional ordering more powerful models as a matter of routine.

I can assure you though, this is a monster power circuit, and if set on the low or non-compression fitting algorithms will satisfy some very power hungry patients.

Finally, I can assure you that both of these aids blow a Destiny out of the water, they are vastly superior in every way. If a hearing professional told you that the Destiny was the only power aid Starkey makes, this is only partly true and certainly not in the CIC range at all. They may have been thinking of a BTE power aid they make with Destiny technology that can do 80dB of gain.