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Costco Kirkland Signature 7.0 (Product Information)

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Hi All,

Just got my KS7 yesterday from Costco Canberra in Australia. The price here is $2000 for the aids and $290 for the smart connect, so exactly similar to their price in Canada. I have been using Phonak Audeo X in the last 5 years and have been generally happy with it, but reading all the posts here about the new techs, I thought it’s a good time for upgrade.

Initially ordered Trax42 and just two days before my fitting appointment I found out about KS7, so returned the Trax42 before opening the box and placed my order for KS7. The audiologist was kind of surprised that I knew KS7 is similar to Trax42 and asked me how do I know. He said they are now allowed to tell people!

With Phonaks I was using open domes, but KS7 was terrible with open domes, so had to use this time.

My first impression is mixed, generally sounds are a bit different with KS7 compared to Phonak, maybe a bit more hi pitched, but I think I have to give my self a bit of time to get used to the new brand

Positives so far:
Speech recognition and comprehension have been good in my short experience. Haven’t tried noisy environment yet.

Negative so far:

  • Phone conversations using smart connect is really terrible. The voice is so thin and lack richness that I barely understand what the person is saying in the other end. Just wondering if this is something that can be corrected by audiologist or not.
  • The audiologist seems to be a bit reluctant to spend time and get the best out the aids based on my needs. He was kind of telling me that here is costco and you pay less so you shouldn’t expect too much!
  • TV wasn’t quite clear as before. I even tried TV program (have that one fitted) but it didn’t make much difference.

My main question at the moment is whether I should switch to Phonak Brio2 or give KS7 more chance. On paper KS7 looks superior based on the features! Brio 2 has just been launched in Australia. The audiologist said that he has received the info pack and now is waiting for the rep to train them.

Appreciate your feedback.

250 R35 L35
500 R45 L50
750 R55 L60
1000 R60 L65
1500 R60 L60
2000 R60 L60
3000 R60 L60
4000 R60 L60
6000 R50 L50
8000 R45 L40

How long a trial period do you get in Australia? If you’ve got 180 days like we do, I’d definitely give it awhile to get used to it. On the other hand, if the higher price of the Brio 2 is not an issue, I suspect you’d prefer it as I’m guessing there’s a similarity in feel between subsequent models within brands

In reply to @frankd

@frankd said:

With Phonaks I was using open domes, but KS7 was terrible with open domes, so had to use closed domes this time.

This seems strange to me. What power level receiver did they fit? I’m always saying I’m a total amateur, which I am, but something about this doesn’t sound right.

@frankd said:

Phone conversations using smart connect is really terrible. The voice is so thin and lack richness that I barely understand what the person is saying in the other end. Just wondering if this is something that can be corrected by audiologist or not… TV wasn’t quite clear as before. I even tried TV program (have that one fitted) but it didn’t make much difference.

I believe both of these issues are very definitely correctable and straightforwardly so.

@frankd said:

The audiologist seems to be a bit reluctant to spend time and get the best out the aids based on my needs. He was kind of telling me that here is costco and you pay less so you shouldn’t expect too much!

This doesn’t sound good. I’ve gotten very good and responsive service from the Costco I’ve gone to for my KS7 aids (in Canada). They haven’t once suggested anything remotely like this. Nor did they try in any way to upsell me. When I ordered the aids, they set up three, hour-long appointments with me in advance, have called me to ask how I’m doing, and have generally been very helpful and attentive.

Maybe you should try another Costco, if there’s one nearby. It really sounds like they’re just cold trying to upsell you. Not nice.

In reply to @corona

If you have options check out another Costco. I did by accident as I ordered the smart connnect at another location and wow what a difference in service and time spent with showing me options.

In reply to @MDB

@MDB said:

How long a trial period do you get in Australia? If you’ve got 180 days like we do, I’d definitely give it awhile to get used to it. On the other hand, if the higher price of the Brio 2 is not an issue, I suspect you’d prefer it as I’m guessing there’s a similarity in feel between subsequent models within brands

We get 180 days. Price is not a major issue, but obviously will be happier to spend less!

In reply to @corona

@corona said:

This seems strange to me. What power level receiver did they fit? I’m always saying I’m a total amateur, which I am, but something about this doesn’t sound right.
I believe both of these issues are very definitely correctable and straightforwardly so.
This doesn’t sound good. I’ve gotten very good and responsive service from the Costco I’ve gone to for my KS7 aids (in Canada). They haven’t once suggested anything remotely like this. Nor did they try in any way to upsell me. When I ordered the aids, they set up three, hour-long appointments with me in advance, have called me to ask how I’m doing, and have generally been very helpful and attentive.
Maybe you should try another Costco, if there’s one nearby. It really sounds like they’re just cold trying to upsell you. Not nice.

I am fitted with M size receivers. There’s only one Constco in Canberra, so trying another one means I have to go to Sydney which is a good 3 hours drive each way. I have a follow up appointment in two weeks time. Will stick with the aids for now and go back with all the feedback.

@frankd said:

I am fitted with M size receivers. There’s only one Constco in Canberra, so trying another one means I have to go to Sydney which is a good 3 hours drive each way. I have a follow up appointment in two weeks time. Will stick with the aids for now and go back with all the feedback.

To my amateur gaze, it looks like the open domes ought to work fine for you. Well, maybe somebody else who knows something could weigh in on that. I’m just looking at the fitting chart, and the loss in your signature.

As for the rest of it, that is too bad. Maybe there’s someone else at the same store you could see? This must happen sometimes, that people want to see a different audi/dispenser.

Good luck! I’m really happy with my KS7s (although I haven’t compared them to any other current-model aids).

In reply to @corona

Thanks for the good info. I took a quick look at the course and will listen to the whole thing asap. In the mean time, I am considering the KS7. I’ve been using the KS5 for a little over three years (my first hearing aids) and am generally happy although they are having frequent problems so it may be time for a new pair. The KS7 just came out this week here in Japan where I live so the KS6 is no longer available. I need hearing aids for general conversation in noisy places among other things but the area I’m especially picky is music. I listen to mostly acoustic jazz recordings on a somewhat high end sound system. My greatest desire is that acoustic instruments sound true to life and that breakup distortion isn’t too annoying. The KS5 was OK but far from perfect. Nevertheless I have enjoyed many hours of listening with them. Looking at the music modes of the KS7 I am also curious so your info was helpful. The bottom line is that I probably want as many functions as possible turned off when in music mode, just because I want less processing of the music. Directionality may be an issue since my speakers throw a very realistic 3-D sound stage but I’m very nervous about any excessive processing in music mode.

Do you think the KS7 will do an adequate job of true to life sound, and if so, what settings would you recommend?

@corona said:

Live: directional miking (since you’re in the audience looking at the stage), extended frequency response
Musician: omni miking (since you’re amongst the other artistes), extended frequency response
Recorded: omni miking (since you’re at home, it’s quiet, and you want to be able to move around), more linear frequency response

For a little more explanation, sign up for audiologyonline.com – it’s free, and signup is easy – and search for this 13-minute course: 27721 – Quick Tips: Primax Case Study #3 (Optimizing Music)

@revdocjim said:

The bottom line is that I probably want as many functions as possible turned off when in music mode, just because I want less processing of the music. Directionality may be an issue since my speakers throw a very realistic 3-D sound stage but I’m very nervous about any excessive processing in music mode.

A couple of observations (just generally, because I’ve thought about these considerations a lot):

  1. As far as I can tell – and as I always say, I’m only an amateur, although an amateur with a 30-year career in the technical side of radio broadcasting – when your hearing is as compromised as mine is – and mine isn’t all that bad – the notion of linearity is basically out the window. Because sound was such a part of my life, I learned to compensate over the years. But that didn’t directly offset the sensorineural damage to my hearing. The piano is probably the worst, or saddest, for me: all those lovely harmonics now just sound more-or-less terrible. So, point 1: It’s never going to sound really good anymore.

  2. As far as I can tell, asking for linearity from hearing aids is also pretty futile. There is simply so much processing going on, and so many technical/engineering/psychoneural compromises that are unavoidably necessary. I’ve tried, just for fun, to get rid of all of the (amplitude) compression in the music program for my KS7 aids. You just can’t. Again, I think the reason is that there is too much processing necessary, on the one hand, and on the other, processing is necessary to meet the (entirely reasonable!) demands of the fitting algorithm, and in particular, the tremendous loss in dynamic range that our damage hearing introduces. This isn’t a criticism of the Costco/Rexton aids: I also tried this with simulations of the top-of-the line Signia and Phonak aids, and it just isn’t possible. And, probably more importantly, my guess is that if you could totally eliminate (amplitude) compression, the results would sound terrible.

Like I say, I spent a goodly chunk of a career getting high-end professional audio systems to behave in a linear fashion. The assumption, however, was that what happened after the sound arrived at the listener’s ear canal was out of my hands. With hearing aids, though, we’re basically getting past that boundary, into the physical, physiological, and psychological aspects of the hearing process itself. And that process is highly non-linear, especially when we’re dealing with compromised physiology. I actually think this is interesting, if kind of sad.

Some things we can deal with: microphone selection (omni of some sort, probably); and noise reduction, feedback suppression, automatic equalization, etc. all off, or as nearly as possible (because all of these features aren’t necessary in the controlled environment of your listening room). I haven’t really looked into all of these details with the other aids, but this is what the KS7s pretty much do. Like so many other aspects of this process, I think it’s probably good to be very, very clear with whoever does the fitting/adjustment for you that you want these things (and that you’re willing to manually switch programs when listening to music). And good to assume that you might be going back several times for adjustments.

But two non-linearities seem utterly inevitable: One, your damaged hearing, which cannot be made entirely good again by any hearing aid technology; and two, the engineered-in non-linearities that just can’t be – and shouldn’t be – taken entirely out of the hearing-aid link in the audio chain.

I know a lot of professionals, and clients, like it when you can get to a place where the “Automatic” program is the only one you need.

But after a couple of months with the KS7s, I really want to plug the “Reverb Reducer” program. I use it a lot, and like it!

I spend a lot of time in fairly crappy acoustic environments, like classrooms and the yoga studio. I’ve found this program to be invaluable.

For some reason – okay maybe because I make it up as I go along – I found the program kind of hard to set up. But like I say, it’s really been worth it.

In my experience, it does what it claims to. Often, the sound isn’t as pleasing as what the Automatic program produces, but when it comes to the difference between being able to figure out what somebody across the room is saying, and not, I’m okay with that.

@CarbonArc said:

But with an equalizer compensating for the lost frequencies, right?

Sure! But I just find generally that headphones or good earbuds just sound way better, EQ or no.

In reply to @corona

@corona said:

A couple of observations (just generally, because I’ve thought about these considerations a lot):

Some things we can deal with: microphone selection (omni of some sort, probably); and noise reduction, feedback suppression, automatic equalization, etc. all off, or as nearly as possible (because all of these features aren’t necessary in the controlled environment of your listening room). I haven’t really looked into all of these details with the other aids, but this is what the KS7s pretty much do. Like so many other aspects of this process, I think it’s probably good to be very, very clear with whoever does the fitting/adjustment for you that you want these things (and that you’re willing to manually switch programs when listening to music). And good to assume that you might be going back several times for adjustments.

Once again, thank you for a very well thought out and highly informative post! Just to confirm, in the preset music modes of the KS7 are noise reduction, feedback suppression and automatic equalization all turned of, or does that require additional steps by the audi? And what about mic selection? What other parameters should I take into consideration when requesting further adjustments?

In reply to @CarbonArc

@CarbonArc said:

But with an equalizer compensating for the lost frequencies, right?

I use earbuds with my portable music player and also take advantage of the built in equalizer. But for home listening the heart of my system is a set of Magneplanar speakers. The soundstage they throw and the overall sound quality is completely different from most headphones unless they are electrostatics. So I am definitely not ready to replace my maggies with a pair of headphones or earbuds. Furthermore, equalization is not an option with my sound system, as it consists of a CD player, a passive attenuator, a power amp and the speakers. In other words the only possible adjustment is the volume.

Edited

What reality do you think I’m missing? I’ve enjoyed many hours of great music with my KS5 hearing aids… sound reproduction that isn’t perfect by any means, but good enough to be very enjoyable, complete with a 3D soundstage, complex harmonics and resonances of acoustic instruments and much more. Are you suggesting that all of that wasn’t actually good enough? All I’m asking for is more specific information about the KS7 hearing aids with regard to music settings so I can get the most out of them. I don’t expect them to work miracles; just hoping they would allow me to enjoy listening to music frequently with my current sound system.

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