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Oticon Opn BT interface

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Forum user jamin had found9 Oticon Fitting LINK 3.0 available at a German web store64. The dongle in the picture has a Sennheiser logo, which is not a surprise, as Sennheiser Communications is a joint venture of companies selling products under Sennheiser and Oticon brands. They seem to share for example their wind noise reduction algorithm.

A BT dongle looking similar to Fitting LINK 3.0 is sold as part of some Sennheiser BT4.0 kits, such as Presence8 serie headsets, available from various sellers for about $150 (UC1 or UC/ML2). It could be and probably is only the looks that are the same, the dongle hardware or at least the firmware could be totally different. However, just because I am curious and persistent - has anyone tried to use such a Sennheiser dongle with Genie 2 to connect with Oticon Opn?

Just to be on the safe side, I must disclose that I have no experience with Genie 2 or any other fitting SW or HW. I recently got my Opns, would very much like to take these out somewhere in the more challenging environments, and do some tuning for my needs beyond what my audiologist can provide.

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Edited

In Genie2 there is link to PDF showing an Opn being used with Cables and Flex Connects.

Select Opn as ‘family’ when you load Genie 2 and on the left you will see a Links Section and ‘Cable Guide’ press on that and you will see the PDF.

I have see the Oticon interface being used also, its just a little bit bigger than a mouse dongle like plugging in a mouse dongle and you just press a button on the top to activate it. very cool and great for programming from a laptop. You could easily even tweak settings in an office meeting etc, but really hard to get unless your audio is will to part with his one.

BTW - I haven’t given up on getting the Sennheiser dongle designed to connect to bluetooth headsets to work with the Genie 2 app. I purchased the Sennheiser BT USB dongle on Amazon for around $60. Obviously the dongle can transmit bluetooth and obviously the Oticon OPN aids can receive and transmit a BT signal (but they can only transmit BT low energy, which really just means BT with a limited range and reduced protocols). However out of the box this particular Sennheiser dongle won’t work with Genie 2 and the primary reason is Windows will not load the Genie provided drivers (instead windows will insist on loading MS drivers designed to connect with BT headsets).

It’s possible this can never work. However it’s also possible that the main difference between this headset BT dongle and the actual Fitting Link BT dongle isn’t so much hardware (after all they both have to receive and transmit a bluetooth signal) as the driver software, which in the case of Genie 2 would have to be completely different from a BT headset driver. If you know something about how windows drivers work with USB devices, the device has a specific ID, and this ID tells windows what drivers to load. In order to be plug and play, you give the USB device a specific ID which in turns matches some driver ID. And the ID for this dongle is different then the ID for the Genie 2. But that still doesn’t mean that the underlying hardware is significantly different. I would guess the hardware is nearly exactly the same, except for this ID, which is more or less just a value programmed into the USB interface. That could be different - must be different in fact to load the right driver - but everything else can still be the same hardware. So the audiologist installs Genie 2 with installs the fitting link driver, and then when the fitting linke USB dongle is inserted, windows magically loads the correct driver. All this is totally expected.

My experiment is to see if the Fitting Link driver will also work with this Sennheiser BT headset dongle. To get this to work I have to modify the Genie Link driver which isn’t easy but definitely can be done. I can’t really explain it here, it involves the windows driver kit and self signed certs to give you an idea. And if I do get this to work, I can only pass along the concept, I can’t provide the hacked driver which at this point would only work on my system anyway. Anyway, I’ll updated this thread with more detail. IMO it’s 50/50 whether this works or not.

@jamin said:

My experiment is to see if the Fitting Link driver will also work with this Sennheiser BT headset dongle. To get this to work I have to modify the Genie Link driver which isn’t easy but definitely can be done. I can’t really explain it here, it involves the windows driver kit and self signed certs to give you an idea. And if I do get this to work, I can only pass along the concept, I can’t provide the hacked driver which at this point would only work on my system anyway. Anyway, I’ll updated this thread with more detail. IMO it’s 50/50 whether this works or not.

For some reason I had bookmarked two links with assumption that Oticon Opn uses these, can anyone confirm?

Maybe the link to the Nordic Semiconductor page helps a bit with the driver study, they have quite active Arduino developer community. Anyone tried to check if communication between a Apple device and Opn can be read with a sniffer2?

Anyone with the Fitting LINK 3.0 dongle22 out there? I am quite ready to buy one, but would prefer to hear some first hand user experience from US before placing an order through a friend in Europe.

My guess would be a prime stored to use a low level encryption. They wouldn’t need a big word. Just something with a handshake that would arrive miscoded after/without decryption.

In reply to @wolverine

@wolverine said:

For some reason I had bookmarked two links with assumption that Oticon Opn uses these, can anyone confirm?

Maybe the link to the Nordic Semiconductor page helps a bit with the driver study, they have quite active Arduino developer community. Anyone tried to check if communication between a Apple device and Opn can be read with a sniffer?

Anyone with the Fitting LINK 3.0 dongle out there? I am quite ready to buy one, but would prefer to hear some first hand user experience from US before placing an order through a friend in Europe.

The Ezurio dongle was used for the wireless Hi-pro. Not sure about the other one.

As for me, my experiments ended with this…
My win10 system refused to load anything but the MS provided official Sennheiser bluetooth drivers. Trying to override the driver installer to instead load the Genie provided drivers (which I assume are the Fitting Link drivers) never quite worked - and not surprising at first considering the Fitting Link driver ID doesn’t match the Sennheiser USB device ID (in earlier windows, like Win7, you could force a driver to load despite a mismatch, but only if a system admin, but Win10 has closed that loophole). I tried to modify the Genie Fitting Link driver by changing the ID on the INF file to match the Sennheiser USB ID, then build a .Cat file from the INF. But Win10 requires all cat files to be signed by a valid certificate (damn security & system stability!), and my attempt to create a self signed cert and from that a signed cat file that win10 would accept never worked. It might have worked if I had enough time and patience plus a valid certificate like an actual driver developer would have. But I had none and retuned the Sennheiser USB to Amazon before I ran out of the 30 day return timeframe. It’s possible it might work with a correctly signed cat file, but for now or until someone else figures this out, I’m going to wait for an actual Fitting link USB device to become available. Some day…

I used to have this fascination for a wireless programming device (namely the Phonak iCube). It seemed so logical, no Hi-Pro, no cables, no flex strips, no boots or pills. What could be simpler, right???

In reality a wireless programming device is very limiting. You you are limiting yourself to only one manufacturer’s hearing aids () that you can program. That’s bad! Worse yet, as technology advances your wireless programming device may become obsolete (read about Phonak iCube which is becoming obsolete, because newer models use iCube II.

iCube can lock your hearing aids as a result of communications failure. You will need a Hi-Pro/cables/etc to unlock it. iCube II can also lock your hearing aids but there is some sort of reset feature in the software. FittingLink cannot update your hearing aid firmware. You will need a Hi-Pro/cables/etc for that.

Since I got over my fascination (after buying and selling several iCubes) I prefer to stick with a Hi-Pro and cables, and sometimes flex strips, boots or pills. Now when I find a bargain set of HAs on Ebay for myself or a family member I am not limited by my initial choice of programming device. As a result I can keep advancing the technology of my hearing aids by selling my old aids and buying almost new aids (usually one generation back).

In summary, I think it is a short sighted decision to purchase a wireless programming device.

In reply to @Bahamapapa

@Bahamapapa said:

Isn’t it possible to Program the Oticon OPNs the Old Fashioned way using Genie Software, a HiPro, Oticon #3 Cables and Flex Connects? Thanks.

my audi programmed my opns today with the same device she used for my virto q90s, but she put some ribbon cables into the opns(above the battery deck on the bottom side) and on some adapters connecting to the hook thing that went around my neck. sry for the noob vocabulary :stuck_out_tongue:

@Gery_R said:

my audi programmed my opns today with the same device she used for my virto q90s, but she put some ribbon cables into the opns(above the battery deck on the bottom side) and on some adapters connecting to the hook thing that went around my neck. sry for the noob vocabulary :stuck_out_tongue:

I believe you are talking about >>NOAH Link9<< hardware. It uses bluetooth to connect to the PC instead of using a Hi-Pro and cables*. You still use cables* but they are little short cables* that connect from the NOAHlink/necklace-thing to your Hearing Aids/. They connect like this (PC->Bluetooth->NOAHlink->Cables*->HAs).

The benefit (for audiologists) is that the the patient can move around without being tethered to a Hi-Pro via cables*.

A programmer doesn’t need this crapolla. Who cares if you are tethered? You’re sitting at your desk anyway, right?

A DIY programmer does not need NOAH software, period!
A DIY programmer does not need NOAHlink hardware, period!
We connect like this (PC->Hi-Pro->Cables->HAs).

  • when I say cables that may include flex strips, or boots, or pills to make the final connection from the cable to hearing aid (HA). Some HAs use a direct programming cable connection. Some require additional flex strips, or boots, or pills to make the final connection.

In reply to @jamin

@jamin said:

As for me, my experiments ended with this…
My win10 system refused to load anything but the MS provided official Sennheiser bluetooth drivers. Trying to override the driver installer to instead load the Genie provided drivers (which I assume are the Fitting Link drivers) never quite worked - and not surprising at first considering the Fitting Link driver ID doesn’t match the Sennheiser USB device ID (in earlier windows, like Win7, you could force a driver to load despite a mismatch, but only if a system admin, but Win10 has closed that loophole). I tried to modify the Genie Fitting Link driver by changing the ID on the INF file to match the Sennheiser USB ID, then build a .Cat file from the INF. But Win10 requires all cat files to be signed by a valid certificate (damn security & system stability!), and my attempt to create a self signed cert and from that a signed cat file that win10 would accept never worked. It might have worked if I had enough time and patience plus a valid certificate like an actual driver developer would have. But I had none and retuned the Sennheiser USB to Amazon before I ran out of the 30 day return timeframe. It’s possible it might work with a correctly signed cat file, but for now or until someone else figures this out, I’m going to wait for an actual Fitting link USB device to become available. Some day…

Did you try disabling Win10 driver signing requirements and such??
It’s possible, instructions can be found on Google, enables installing unsigned drivers…

In reply to @pvc

@pvc said:

I used to have this fascination for a wireless programming device (namely the Phonak iCube). It seemed so logical, no Hi-Pro, no cables, no flex strips, no boots or pills. What could be simpler, right???

In reality a wireless programming device is very limiting. You you are limiting yourself to only one manufacturer’s hearing aids (HAs) that you can program. That’s bad! Worse yet, as technology advances your wireless programming device may become obsolete (read about Phonak iCube which is becoming obsolete, because newer models use iCube II.

iCube can lock your hearing aids as a result of communications failure. You will need a Hi-Pro/cables/etc to unlock it. iCube II can also lock your hearing aids but there is some sort of reset feature in the software. FittingLink cannot update your hearing aid firmware. You will need a Hi-Pro/cables/etc for that.

Since I got over my fascination (after buying and selling several iCubes) I prefer to stick with a Hi-Pro and cables, and sometimes flex strips, boots or pills. Now when I find a bargain set of HAs on Ebay for myself or a family member I am not limited by my initial choice of programming device. As a result I can keep advancing the technology of my hearing aids by selling my old aids and buying almost new aids (usually one generation back).

In summary, I think it is a short sighted decision to purchase a wireless programming device.

I’ve managed to unlock my Q70s when they locked up with a iCube and the Target software. I didn’t need a Hi-Pro and cables.

@Zebras said:

I’ve managed to unlock my Q70s when they locked up with a iCube and the Target software. I didn’t need a Hi-Pro and cables.

Even so I still think it’s a short sighted decision (for example you can’t program V70s with it). Well why don’t you tell us how you did it? Did you use the reset feature available in newer versions of software?

I just ordered the Oticon Fittinglink 3.0 from Aurem in Europe. I will let you know how things go…I’ve downloaded the software on my Win 7 Pro laptop, I’ll install it once I have the dongle in hand.

Edited

Don’t forget to take your hearing aids/ to your Audiologist if/when you need to update the firmware. Oh, maybe you don’t need to take your HAs to your Audiologist because you have a Hi-Pro or a mini Pro in your pocket. :rolleyes:

@pvc said:

Don’t forget to take your hearing aids/HAs to your Audiologist if/when you need to update the firmware. Oh, maybe you don’t need to take your HAs to your Audiologist because you have a Hi-Pro or a mini Pro in your pocket. :rolleyes:

I don’t have the hi/mini pro…so I do plan on taking to the audi for any firmware updates…is there an easy way to see when they do updates?

@boosh said:

I don’t have the hi/mini pro…so I do plan on taking to the audi for any firmware updates…is there an easy way to see when they do updates?

I dunno how/if you can see the firmware version via wireless? I haven’t used Genie 2 yet.
Here’s a link to >>Oticon Firmware Updater24<<

For a self adjuster who has a relationship with an Audiologist it should not be a problem getting firmware updates. For a self programmer who has no relationship with an Audiologist it could cost extra $$$ to get a firmware update.

@pvc said:

For a self programmer who has no relationship with an Audiologist it could cost extra $$$ to get a firmware update.

Also, the firmware updater has a warning that says “Note that updated instruments will be returned to factory settings”.

Therefore, if a self programmer using Fittinglink only (no Hi-Pro) has to take his/her hearing aids to an Audiologist for firmware updates then the Audi would have to save the current programming first, apply the firmware updates, and then re-apply the original programming.

Your Audi is not likely to be doing that for free unless you purchased your hearing aids from that Audi.

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