I have had severe to profound hearing loss at high frequencies for quite some time. Classic ski slope loss. Years ago, I went to a lot of loud music concerts. Probably one reason for my current loss. Anyway, recently, I have been to a couple of concerts that were pretty loud and to me at least, they were quite uncomfortable. I would even say painful. When I mentioned this to my normal hearing guests, they said that the music wasn’t all that loud. Normal concert volume was the phrase used. So, if my hearing is so bad that family members are always telling me to turn the volume down on the TV, why does loud music cause me so much discomfort? I don’t wear hearing aids. I have some, but can’t seem to get them adjusted to where they actually help my problem.
I read about “recruitment” and it sounds like my issue. It also looks like there is nothing that can be done about it. I was already just about to the point of giving up on hearing aids. I think I will try one more time to program them and if this doesn’t work, I am throwing in the towel.
It’s not obvious to me why YOUR adjusting hearing aids is an interesting exercise (rather than somebody who knows what they’re doing). Why not see what professionally adjusted hearing aids do?
Well, I did try some professionally fitted aids and the results were about the same as the Phonak software default settings. I returned those. I figured that I know more about my hearing than someone in a hearing aid sales office. I have been able to do better than they did. Sound recover helped some, but I still wasn’t able to understand speech all that well. I did lower my settings and that did help with the issues caused by recruitment, but still didn’t help intelligibility. I actually get by pretty well except for the speech issue. Not hearing what others do can be a blessing sometimes. But carrying on a conversation, especially in a noisy environment can be a real challenge. I am retired and I just can’t afford to go pay prevailing prices for hearing aids. That is why I haunted eBay for a couple of months looking for s decent set. I have Phonak Audeo V90s. I have been pretty disappointed in the results I have gotten. But, reading the posts here has helped me understand why.
Most live amplified music is in the range from 80db to 125db (yes that’s too effin loud), and all aids have to handle this is an adjustment point at 80db and a limiter ().
You should get a real time analyzer app for your cell phone, and take a look at what sound levels you are in. You will be surprised at how loud things are. The RTA will also help you when your aids are too loud, but everyone else is OK with the volume level. It will tell you with a number, how loud the sound is and that will help your audiologist a lot. If you get a real time analyzer that has a frequency readout that will be even better, because yo can now say “This sound, at this frequency and at this volume is too loud or too soft.”
It’s not the aids, it’s the settings. Your aids over amplify at loud levels because that particular adjustment point - 80db and the MPOs (limiters) are out of whack. Go back to the audiologist and have them run a real time analyzer test (with the hearing aids in your ears) at 95db and to be careful that the MPOs don’t kick in too soon - that will cause loud sounds to be muddied. “Too soon” means they start limiting the sound at a lower volume level, so they stop anything louder than that from getting loud, resulting in mud and a lack of dynamics. This is tricky for any audiologist because getting the aids to work right at louder levels is a balance between the loud sounds (80db) curve, and the MPO.
So first get a complete real time, in the ear test and “live” adjustment at 95db, before doing anything else
Be careful of over use of sound processors at loud levels, too, like noise reduction. There is a point where noise reduction will be overwhelmed by loud sounds and sort of go nuts…
Sorry to be so technical, but hearing aid users must know this stuff so they can communicate to the audiologist what they are hearing wrong, in words the audiologist can translate. Sure, you can say “too loud” but at what frequency? Are the highs too loud? Is the sound boomy at loud volumes? Are noises like a coffee bean grinder making you jump out of your skin? Does the sound of a squeaky door hinge go right through your skull? For an example “too loud” can also mean that 500hz is up too much. 500hz and 750 hz are usually teh culprits when background sound overwhelms everything else.
John, did you try NAL2 rather than Phonak adaptive? Have you used the fine tuning part of the program? For me it was the NAL2 that seemed to clear things up.
The distance between and has shortened do to your hearing loss; whereas your normal hearing guests distance between the two might be 90 to 110 , yours could be 45 dB or less depending on your hearing loss. Because of your hearing loss you probably have either recruitment or hyperacusis.
Just to be clear, I wasn’t wearing my aids at either concert. The loud music being painful really has nothing to do with hearing aids. I have a problem when I am wearing my aids of people with voices that seem unduly loud to me. It even occurs without aids. Seems my dynamic range has decreased considerably. Went to another concert recently and the volume sounded just about perfect. I don’t wear aids to listen to music. Way too tinny. I tried streaming some music from my phone through my Compilot II and it sounded terrible. I think SEB is right I have either recruitment or hyperacusis.
I am using either NAL1, or NAL2. I can’t recall at the moment which. When I switched between all the different choices in Target, I couldn’t really see much difference in the gain chart. I can’t tell much difference in how the aids sound either. I have played with the gain and settings a good bit to reduce the annoyance factor some, but it also seemed to do away with the small amount of difference the aids made in my hearing. I have pretty much concluded that hearing aids aren’t going to help.
Well I think my loss is a lot less challenging than yours, and I have good word-recognition scores, too. So perhaps professional help is needed? When I first started self-programming, I was very lucky in finding an audi at a small satellite clinic of a big company, who set me up with a quite good initial fitting. And didn’t charge me. And gave me advice about . That was a good way to start. Maybe you can come up with something similar, even if you have to pay for that initial fitting?
Me, too, even though I’ve now switched over to Costco KS7s. I tried the Rexton proprietary “SmartFit” rule, but I still find the NAL2 better, and easier to work with.
NW Indiana