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Invisible-in-canal (IIC) vs completely-in-canal (CIC)

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I agree that the manufacturer’s info does not make it easy to determine features. However, the data sheet I provided is pretty clear. Were you able to look at it? Once you scroll down to the feature list, OVP is the first listed feature and it has a dash, implying lack of feature for all 3 levels. And yes they do have wireless control. They use high pitched sounds to send commands from smart phone or remote.

In reply to @glucas

@glucas said:

I remember reading that with CIC and IIC hearing aids you do get the natural advantage of using your pinna. This means that you will actually get improved localisation and added benefit with the signal to noise ratio.

The way I understand localization: Front-to-back localization is the difficult aspect. There are two uses for front-to-back localization info: 1) The hearing aids, so they can implement directionality strategies; 2) The wearer, to know where sound is coming from.

Now, are in-the-ear aids really able to interpret the clues encoded into the sound by the pinna? Are they even able to simply pass the clues along to the ear, or are the clues lost in digital signal processing?

Another question: Do or aids encode front-to-back directionality into their output, so the brain understands it in its native way?

@x475aws said:

Now, are in-the-ear aids really able to interpret the clues encoded into the sound by the pinna? Are they even able to simply pass the clues along to the ear, or are the clues lost in digital signal processing?

Another question: Do RIC or BTE aids encode front-to-back directionality into their output, so the brain understands it in its native way?

No to the first question. Yes, in a limited way, to the second question. To the third question: not really, some better than others. The best pinna cue replacement currently is in the Unitron Tempus Pro.

But note, too, that natural pinna cues are high frequency cues. So if you don’t have high frequency hearing they aren’t going to work well for you anyway.

In reply to @MDB

MBD:

I see that on the sheet. A Google search shows the NX means OVP in that line of aids so i’m not sure.
FROM an interview about NX:
Pamela Burton, : “The new Insio and (Invisible-in-canal) are now also available on the Nx platform. The Insio Nx IIC features a smaller faceplate, smaller components, and thinner shells to create an almost invisible in-the-ear product. Yet, it still offers all connectivity features such as binaural OneMic Directionality for better speech understanding in noise, and TwinPhone for better speech understanding on the phone. Together with the Insio CIC, the IIC will be very appealing to fans of tiny hearing aids.”

Maybe the NX platform does not mean OVP but that is what i have read. Any way clearly shown as NOT available in the IIC models.

I’ll let my audi sort it out

@drjay44 said:

I’ll let my audi sort it out

That is assuming an altruistic and highly qualified fitter. Close to half don’t even conform to best fit industry standards.

I haven’t posted in this thread because there seemed no reason to – seeing that your bias is absolute. I hope it works for you.

I have posted a couple of threads dealing with in an effort to gain knowledge and read opinions.

I notice that there is clearly a group on the forum who appear to be anti IIC !

Comments regarding vanity, accept the fact you need aids and IIC is not the best choice, wouldn’t you rather people see your aids and know you have a problem instead of thinking your stupid cause you don’t respond etc

I dont know if these comments come from , or other aid type wearers but I see no positive side to these comments.

Yes those of us who prefer IIC for whatever reason may give up features. As long as we are willing to accept that fact I’d like to see the IIC crowd welcomed instead of being castigated for daring to choose an IIC.

Be it due to vanty, lack of self confidence, desire to wear eyeglasses or other reason we have a preference as do you folks.

I have recieved helpful comments but honestly the clearly negative ones do little to move the process forward.

Although I have no interest for myself due to cost over time I’m curious as to the opinions from above referenced posters when it comes to the Lyric but let’s no go there.

i don’t mean this post as a flame or to start a war just an observation on my part.

I don’t think anyone here is anti-iic. It is one tool and it works for some, and other styles work for others. If it worked for me, and there were no, or at least acceptable, compromises I would use that style. I would imagine there might be better retention since it sits deep.

It can be more convenient to have a or because regular phones work better and headphones sound amazing, but, they are not available yet to work with my hearing loss, so I would give up some features and functionality.

I like/need all the features and functionality I can get, and I don’t care about anything else.

Hearing Aids help, but do not correct, hearing loss so even with the best, most powerful hearing aids with all the features, I’m really just cutting my hearing loss in half. If I wore IIC it would cut my hearing loss by even less than that.

So I think that’s what some people are saying, that it is not a situation where all hearing aids will correct your hearing, and you just have to decide the style for you. It depends on your hearing loss, which type and style is best for your loss and if you get away from that, just know what you are giving up.

In reply to @drjay44

I have worn hearing aids for over 20 yrs. , , & . I have had cheap ones & top of the line ($6000/pr) I have always preferred CIC; yes because they are discrete but also I have had RICs come off mowing lawn too close to trees & crawling under cars. I am currently wearing Signia Silks they are easily the best set of aids I have purchased.

In reply to @drjay44

I own both Phonak and Starkey aids. The truth is that I like them both at different times. Starkey makes a wireless IIC which is really more close to a cic that provides benefits such as music streaming and cellphone linkage. I tried these and concluded that the IIC benefits (see below) outweighed the extra features.

IIC benefits:

  1. The most natural, as it functions solely to improve hearing, is located next to the ear drum, has a decent size vent to allow sounds through and eliminate the “plugged up feeling”.
  2. Because it doesn’t have linkages to each other or bluetooth the battery life is 4 to 5 days on a size 10 battery vs 2 days on the slightly larger wireless version of the same which sits just short of the second bend.
  3. Because it is so deep in the canal (just past the second bend) it uses the ears structure to provide directionality. After a few hours I forget they are even there. Since the canal narrows at that point the shape of the aid makes it impossible to insert it too far and damage the eardrum.

IIC Disadvantages:

  1. It is difficult to change hearing programs. You must install a cellphone app that plays touchtones to trigger both volume and program changes. The app doesn’t work well in noisy areas which forces me to head to the restroom or parking lot in a noisy restaurant to switch to a loud noise mode.
  2. For some reason it was difficult to get “close to perfect correction” at the audiologist’s office. I ended up ordering a USB device to connect the devices to my computer and use Starkey’s program to fine tune them. After many hours (with a laptop, usually while watching TV) I came close enough.
  3. Cleaning is trickier. I bought cans of compressed air to blow any little skin bits away from the tiny mic port and vent.
  4. Not everyone’s ear canal is large enough or shaped well enough to accommodate IIC’s.

RIC benefits:

  1. Remote allows operation as a Bluetooth earphone with decent fidelity. This can be handy for playing music or listing to an Audible book (which will automatically switch to an incoming call).
  2. Battery used is larger and provides almost a week’s usage.
  3. Small receiver and dome is ear is usually easier to accommodate.

RIC disadvantages:

  1. Easier to get wet.
  2. Can’t wear conventional headphones (unless they are large enough to cover the aid).
  3. Directionality can be an issue if not fixed with program.
  4. Interferes with eyeglasses.
  5. Harder to hide for self conscious men. Not a factor with longer hair.

So which do I wear the most?
Answer: The IIC’s. Like contact lenses, they disappear to the point that your are not aware of them. Vanity aside, this is an advantage that I find really important.

The best bet is to wait and see what you need after you’ve had your hearing tested. If you’re not happy you can always say “Thank you” and walk away.

Everyone is always nervous about what others may say or think when they first decide to look into hearing aids, but I say “Why?”.

If we’ve got to the point where we are struggling to hear and understand the world around us, then friends, family and co-workers are going to already know that something is wrong.

To me, rather than worrying about how visible a hearing aid is, the most important point is to a hearing aid or two if you need two, that actually help you to hear the best you can.

After all if everyone around has already noticed that you probably have a hearing loss, then the sight of you with your new hearing aids shouldn’t matter to them, and they should view it as you doing something positive for yourself.

Good luck with everything you decide to do.

In reply to @DickK

Having two styles would be ideal, and I have thought about that. You can wear one style for some situations and the other style, whenever, and that’s something the OP may want to consider.

I would like to have an for some things, but the full functionality is just too good to give up if I have to choose only one. My style hearing aids have 4 microphones that work together to localize sound and it reduces sounds that are not in the current cone of sound. The default is to enhance speech coming from straight ahead, but I can choose other settings on the app, like speech from the right side or behind.

They have several automatic environments that it recognizes and adjusts for. For example, automobile is one thing it recognizes and it lowers road noise and enhances my wife’s voice or Google Maps voice.

When I watch TV I use the TV transmitter, which is stereo, and if the show or movie is mixed well, I can hear someone walking, first in the right ear and transitioning to the left ear as they leave the scene, similar to surround sound.

I have the Bluetooth device so besides my cell phone, I have sound from my office phone, laptops (with softphone), tablets, desktop, and other Bluetooth transmitters going to both hearing aids.

I had deep impressions made last week and looking forward to having deep fit molds like I had with my last RICs.

Mine are IP68 rated so they don’t care about rain (I do but they don’t).

I’m leaving out a lot but it’s too much for me to give up now that I have experienced the processing benefits.

OK, I’ll throw in a couple more things. Mine have a tiny rocker switch on each one, so the left controls the program for both aids, and the right controls the volume. The program switch goes forward and backward (1 to to 2, then 2 to 1). You don’t have to cycle around 3, 4, 5, 6 then back to 1, like in the old days.

If you hold the down volume for 2 seconds it mutes the mics. Press the up volume to start the mics back.

If I’m streaming, phone or TV, and I press down volume on the Bluetooth device, it mutes the mics but continues the streaming. Good for taking calls in a lot of background noise, or for watching TV when other things are going on in the room.

If I get a call while streaming from another source, the call has priority. It mutes the stream and lets me take the call. After the call the stream comes back.

Edited

In reply to @Don

I also like the idea of two sets of aids. A nice set of for most of the time, but also a set of . I particularly like the Signia Silk Primax and it’s Rexton counterpart. Ebay has some of the Rexton versions for under $400 a pair. I think those would be great for outdoor activities, talking on the phone or wearing headphones. I suspect I will eventually pull the trigger. Need to figure out what I would need to program. For self programming it looks like flex strips and CS44 cables would do it.

Okay. I’ve been reading, with great interest, everyone’s comments on this subject. I found myself nodding in agreement with many of the writers. As a long time wearer, having had ’s, ’s, ’s, and ’s, I thought I’d throw in my two cents. I am a health care professional who wears an ear loop face mask much of the day, and has to change it frequently. Any type of HA behind my ear is problematic, as I often removed the HA with the mask. There is also little room for the HA back there with the elastic mask loops, my eyeglasses and my longish hairstyle. The hair always hid whatever HA sat behind my ear and the tube or wire, so vanity wasn’t really a concern. What I really like about the IIC’s is that it seems to be the most like having my own hearing back, when it’s working well. Unlike models that sit behind your ear, IIC’s are so much like contact lenses for your ear, you typically forget you have them on. I think DrJay, however, will discover that the road to peace and satisfaction with IIC’s is a longer one. Starting with the impressions, it can take a number of tries to find a good fit. When not fitting well, you can experience movement of the aid in an outward direction, or pain in the bony portion of the canal (pressure). As these devices move, feedback occurs. Depending on how much amplification you require, feedback can be more troublesome – particularly when chewing. Also, the more amplification, the smaller the vent will be, which will increase the sensation of occlusion. Having a piece of plastic sitting in the bony portion of the canal can create inflammation, and more fluid secretion there, which can wet the HA and affect its function (dryers help). Of course there are remedies for all these issues, but it takes more tinkering with IIC’s than with other types of HA’s . Then too, as with other types of HA’s, conditions in the audi’s office are often not typical of the real world, and more than once have found myself getting back on the road after an adjustment, turning on the car sound system and listening to road noise and wanting to turn right back around and go back for another adjustment. This led me to purchasing my own equipment and software to make my own adjustments at home or even at the worksite, to finally achieve reasonable satisfaction with a very expensive device the size of an overgrown jellybean (Starkey Soundlens). I hope this helps foster some understanding as to why hearing aids that sit behind the ear can be a more attractive option for many people.

/ gives you a lot of the “having my old hearing back” sensation while still being large enough to support a wide range of capabilities. I’m the guy that said way up there ^^^ that and/or may be limiting due to size. One of my main criteria was being able to use headphones (a must) and holding a phone to my ear (less important but it’s the only method that has been solid for me … I’m looking at you Bluetooth).

In reply to @Smylist

I had the same experience with my Starkey Soundlens as you have, so much so that I felt I was writing the review even down to the contact lens analogy which was in a post I wrote. I keep my Phonak on standby in the event my ear canal gets irritated.

I also program the Starkey Soundlens HAs with decent results (better than my audi). I think that programming requires a different method. It may be that testing hearing with earphones as a sound source rather than a loudspeaker centrally positioned in front of you creates errors because the ear’s response must be measured with the canal and pinna playing their natural roles.

Here are a few questions/comments:

  1. How do you store your test results. Is there another way besides having to purchase NOAH software (really designed for professionals)?

  2. Have you considered Real Ear Measurement as a better way to fit IICs? If so, what did you need to purchase? (and from whom)

  3. Have you noticed that your hearing changes (for better or worse) from week to week? What seems to be an idea adjustment, needs readjustment a month later (or sooner).

  4. Have you noticed that the adjustment bands below 1KHz seem to be too wide to accurately handle speech understanding (for some speakers) even though all else sounds fine?

I think there is a good future for IIC’s, particularly if they can be further reduced in size to include interconnectivity with Bluetooth devices and each other. Making them easier to fit would help. I wonder if there is a way to use a soft material, that will mold to the ear canal, as a “glove” over the hard plastic shell. Noise cancelling would be a welcome addition also.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

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