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Need help with Widex Evoke SoundSense app

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I’m new to hearing aids. Picked up my Widex Evoke E-F2 330 two weeks ago for mild to moderate hearing loss in both ears. I find a slight improvement with television viewing and simple one on one conversation, but background noises are too loud and jarring, and large groups are impossible as turning up the volume makes all sounds louder and jarring. I tried to use “SoundSense learn” which is supposed to allow me to customize these situations, but that part of the app does not function. I tried changing some settings on my iphone6, also googled the problem and then Emailed Widex support. They sent some suggestions which I followed including re-downloading the app, but it still doesn’t work. Since this is a new product I’m wondering if its not fully functioning in the United States. I have a follow up appointment with the audiologist in a few days. Has anyone else had this experience?

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From what I understand, the Evoke are still in their (early) infancy. A few things to consider:

  1. Following up with your audiologist is the right thing to do, absolutely.

  2. The crowd-sourced data pool isn’t very large yet.

  3. As with many brand new platforms, there are often some hiccups early in the cycle. I hope these get worked out.

Please keep us posted. I won’t be getting the Evokes (just got a pair of Uniques), but I’d love to read about how they do (or don’t) work for you over time.

Cheers.

I have the Evoke too and sound sense learn works fine. I would check to see if it is supposed to work with the model you purchased. Someone here pointed out that only the fusion 2 supports the sound sense learn which is the entire point of the Evoke in my opinion.

I have an iPhone 6s.

Thank you for your response. I have looked up the specifications and the SoundSense learn is supposed to work with my 330 model and it was included in the app that the audiologist downloaded to my phone. I have an appointment with her on Tuesday. I’ll let everyone know what happens. I’m hoping it’s just a glitch because the model is so new.

I’m curious about what you/we should expect from this new SoundSense technology??

Oticon’s Opn technology samples the soundscape and applies noise reduction only when it detects speech in that soundscape. That’s one technology (member archive). Another more traditional technology uses beam forming (or directional mode) giving priority to the front microphones in an attempt to concentrate on the person directly in front of you. That’s the second technology that I know of for help with speech-in-noise.

I think we should leave out Sound-Recover/Frequency-Lowering technology because that only works for adjusting specific high frequency hearing losses combined with acceptable low frequency hearing. So if we leave out Frequency-Lowering then the previously mentioned two technologies are the only two that I know about as a remedy for speech-in-noise.

So help me understand this SoundSense technology logically. What should we expect SoundSense to do about helping with speech-in-noise. If it is going to learn then what should it learn? Or is SoundSense just marketing buzz without a logical explanation?

@pvc said:

So help me understand this SoundSense technology logically. What should we expect SoundSense to do about helping with speech-in-noise. If it is going to learn then what should it learn? Or is SoundSense just marketing buzz without a logical explanation?

The beauty of the sound sense learn (I have a trial Evoke aid) is that you get to choose what you want. If you want noise suppression in a situation, you can dial it in. The A/B choices are quite different - for example you may have one very “open” sound vs one with a fair bit of background noise suppression. You keep going with the A/B choices until you find something you like and it’s satisfied that it has you dialed in. You can then save that setting as a favourite or just use it that one time. It’s kind of like having an audiologist in your pocket making those fine tuning adjustments in the real life hearing situation. For me, this solves the problem of trying to describe what the problems were in specific environments to my audiologist in her quiet office. I think it’s a game changer for tinkerers and I’m guessing that the cloud intelligence will eventually help those who aren’t into that stuff, once there are enough data points.

Oh, then thinking about this logically, and for enhancing speech-in-noise, you could choose giving more priority to the front microphones. More noise suppression wouldn’t make sense because then you can’t hear the speech. I can’t think of any other option that makes sense. So that’s it? Just choose more more priority to the front microphones?

Seems to me we have been here before (Phonak ZoomControl/UltraZoom4 comes to mind). Sorry, I still don’t understand how SoundSense could be beneficial when it comes to helping speech-in-noise.

Also I don’t see how “cloud intelligence” (funny use of the word intelligence) could be useful to an individual. What if the majority of hearing aid wearers prefer comfort/lower-gain in noisy situations and you prefer speech clarity. Wouldn’t that give you the opposite of what you are seeking?

Edited

Here’s another thought; Which do you think is better? Phonak AutoSense3 or Widex EVOKE SoundSense8?

eta: Sorry, I had other thoughts that don’t apply. Maybe we will have to wait-and-see how this works and becomes popular or fades into the sunset.

In reply to @Lopsided

@Lopsided said:

The beauty of the sound sense learn (I have a trial Evoke aid) is that you get to choose what you want. If you want noise suppression in a situation, you can dial it in. The A/B choices are quite different - for example you may have one very “open” sound vs one with a fair bit of background noise suppression. You keep going with the A/B choices until you find something you like and it’s satisfied that it has you dialed in. You can then save that setting as a favourite or just use it that one time. It’s kind of like having an audiologist in your pocket making those fine tuning adjustments in the real life hearing situation . For me, this solves the problem of trying to describe what the problems were in specific environments to my audiologist in her quiet office. I think it’s a game changer for tinkerers and I’m guessing that the cloud intelligence will eventually help those who aren’t into that stuff, once there are enough data points.

I still don’t get this logic. Don’t you have any initial input of your own in the first place? For example, you’re in a noisy restaurant and you tell it so, so that it gives you a choice between one kind of noise suppression vs another kind?

Why give people an A/B choice that are quite different in the first place? Unless it always starts out this way regardless of what kind of environment the user is in, without an initial guidance from the user on what they want?

And let’s say you choose the option with a fair bit of noise suppression, does it give you another A/B option that are 2 varieties of noise suppression? And what if you pick THIS variety of noise suppression, does it zoom in even more and offer you YET another level of A/B option, unless you say “That’s enough, I’m sticking with this option.”

And what if you’re never happy with either choice A or B that it gives you? Do you still pick the “lesser of the two evils” to see if it can give you some better choices next time around? What if you still don’t like your second A/B options? Or the third? How do you know/remember if the progressive choices given to you are distinct from one another and not lead you into a circular selection at some point?

The thing about this Evoke technology is that it never really fully explains the details of the technology and the logic behind it so users can understand exactly what they’re buying into. That would be better than using fluffy words like “machine learning” and hoping that it’s a good enough explanation to users.

Keep in mind that this is my impression of what happens…so I may be wrong.

Using this app…you are initially asked for A/B choices…much like when getting dialed in for glasses. In this environment, do you like A or B better. Then…ok …having chosen B, do you like this new A or B better…constantly homing in on what feels best for you. The crowd sourced database is merely a way to present choices quicker in some environments…it isn’t going to Borg… your hearing aids.

I would like to have this with the OPN1 with the Resound 3D accessory set.

In reply to @Volusiano

From what I heard from the Tech that was interviewed at the convention, it will sample surroundings more than other aids. Then, when encounters a similar environment, it will adjust to the previous setting used by the patent. That would be true even if that hadn’t really helped. Big data will then attempt to adjust further.

All this assumes the users stay involved to refine things. That’d be a lot of voting and responding.

In reply to @Volusiano

@Volusiano said:

I still don’t get this logic. Don’t you have any initial input of your own in the first place? For example, you’re in a noisy restaurant and you tell it so, so that it gives you a choice between one kind of noise suppression vs another kind?

Sorry - I didn’t explain this well at all.

You start off with an initial setting done by the audiologist, just as with any other aid. I sat in the office and we discussed what programs I’d like, we played around, she did , etc. This was exactly as she has done with other aids.

The A/B option thing comes into play if you want to adjust your aids on the fly (i.e. not go into your audiologist if you’re having a bit of trouble with, say, a party environment).

For example, I was at an outdoor party the other night and the “party” setting just wasn’t cutting it. I went into the sound sense learn within the party setting (using “party” as a basis) and then sent through the A/B choices until I found something that worked better for me in that moment. I then saved it as “party 2” (a favourite). This doesn’t change the initial settings your audi did, but now I have it as a favourite.

Just to be clear - you do not have to use the “machine learning” part of the app at all if you do not want to. In fact, the sound on this aid was so much better than the other aids I tried, just on the initial settings that it wasn’t really necessary for me to fiddle with them using the Sound Sense learn but it allows me to get the best possible settings for my liking.

Edited

that means its like oticons selection of brighter vs sharp noise etc on startup which sound quality you like in quiet vs noisy environment and + voume adjustment so basically bass vs treble adn volume percentage in another language in real life not much help for special people

To me, this is a lot like tweaking audio settings on a simplified controller which offers choices between two settings on a slider. It’s fuzzy logic with crowd sourcing info that you help provide. Intuitive is not logic as it is subjective.

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