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Philips Hearlink first Impressions

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@Jack_F said:

From the start, when I switched to the TV Adapter the default volume was way too loud; so each time I needed to turn it down 4-5 clicks. At the followup visit I had the “TV-A Level” adjusted down a little, but it still needs more reduction in the default volume; so on my next visit, I’ll have it turned down some more. Also, initially the TV Adapter’s “Mic/TV Level” was set to 0 db (meaning no gain at all is applied to sounds from the surrounding room, and only the streamed TV sound is amplified). With that setting, and with my rather closed domes, I had trouble hearing my wife speak while I was using the TV Adapter. So on the followup visit, I had the “Mic/TV Level” increased a notch; and this now seems about right. The streamed sound from the TV Adapter is still clear and strong; but I can hear when my wife starts speaking, so I can then pause the TV and have a conversation.

Here in August 2021 I recently purchased the newer Philips Hearlink 9030 rechargeable hearing instruments and the TV adapter, which I don’t think is different from yours. I like the sound quality of the adapter, and especially the EQ, but I am having problems with the default volume being much too loud. My Costco fitter lowered it on the software after consultation, but he had few settings choices and it it still too loud on default. Even worse, the sound spikes to about 100 decibels (I’m guessing) after I first unpause the streaming or switch back to the streaming program; then it seems to settle down to something more tolerable. I complained to my fitter and to Philips directly and was told it might be a bluetooth instability or perhaps related to iOS issues. I told Phillips they need to make the streaming app keep user volume settings so users don’t have to have their hearing damaged by the high default setting.And they need to address the super-loud spike when it first comes on from pause, etc. In fact, all program volume settings should keep user input, and all should have access to the EQ. My question is whether you ever got the default volume reduced sufficiently and exactly how it was done. Any futher information would be most welcome. Thank you!

The default TV streamer volume setting on mine are set to the lowest default volume the program allows. I still have to manually turn the volume down 2 clicks every time I use the TV streamer. I have another appointment scheduled for next month, and I’m hoping that there will be a software update to fix this by now; but I don’t know if that is the case.

Edited

I wouldn’t hold my breath hoping that there would be a software update to fix that issue. That is because Philips may not consider it it a bug, but it’s simply because your signal coming into the TV Adapter is simply too hot. But sure, beside the -3 and -9 dB reduction, maybe they should add another reduction option at -12 dB or something. But that would be an enhancement and not a bug fix, and usually enhancements are forthcoming much more slowly.

A better enhancement in my opinion would be what @piques46 is proposing, to keep the user volume settings in the streaming app retain the very last settings that the user has set to. This would be more useful in a lot more situations than just the TV Adapter situation.

This is a reply to both @Volusiano and @Jack_F. I received my digital-to-analog audio converter and set it up to feed an analog RCA signal into the adapter instead of the Toslink digital audio, which V. suspected might be too hot. Although there is not a great difference, the default volume for most of the streaming I do does seem somewhat better this way. (There is also a volume up and down button on the DAC, but it seems to do very little.) I still notice a volume spike when the streamer has been paused or the programming is switched to streaming from another program. I have corresponded with Philips and urged them to let user settings override the default, and they promised to address this. Of course it has been almost a month and nothing has happened. I would suggest to @Jack_F to try an RCA connection to the Philips streamer rather than the Toslink and see if that is less hot. I still would like to experiment with having my HAS adjust the streamer/mike setting down -3db, which hasn’t been done yet. I’d much rather have to turn the streaming and/or surroundings volume up a little manually than suffer the blast of a too-high default. Another thing you might do, @Jack_F, is write a review of the app and mention this issue, suggesting that users’ hearing could be further damaged by the high volume. That seems to get their attention; at least it did for me.

@piques46 That’s disappointing that the volume control on your DAC does very little to reduce the volume output of the RCA out. It’s supposed to be able to turn down the volume completely off if that’s what you want. What’s the point of having it if it doesn’t do its job? I’d reach out to the manufacture of that device and ask them what’s up with that, and mention that you want to return the unit and give them a bad review on Amazon. When I did the same thing with my HDMI splitter (it doesn’t do something as claimed as part of a functionality), the customer support people refunded me the cost of the device and told me I could just keep it because it wasn’t worth the cost for Amazon (and eventually the mfg) to pay for the return shipping.

I also want to clarify that if you turn down the Mic Relative to TV Adapter setting down by -3 , it will turn the ’ mics volume down but keep the TV Adapter streaming volume the same. If your issue is that by turning down the overall volume of your iPhone down because the TV Adapter is too loud, resulting in the mic volume being turned down as well and making it harder to hear people talking around you, then you’d actually want to turn up the Mic Relative to TV Adapter setting so you can hear people talking better instead.

Also, I thought that you can separate out the mic volume and the streaming volume on the smart phone app or the MFI control window of your iPhone. So you can temporarily make the adjustment there until you get your to make the permanent adjustment for you on the Philiops HearSuite.

Edited

In reply to @piques46

I tried to use the analog audio out signal on my TV to feed into the RCA jacks on the streamer, but I could not make that work at all - no sound coming through to the hearing aids. The TV adapter didn’t seem to be “connecting” with my hearing aids - the green light on the streamer never came on when I pressed the right side hearing aid button.

So I then tried a digital-to-analog converter (which has no volume control) and used it to convert the digital TOS from the TV into the analog RCA jacks into the streamer. The streamer’s green light DID come on and fed the sound into my hearing aids. However the default volume is the same as it was before with just digital input from the TV into the streamer - still just a bit too loud.

In reply to @Volusiano

With regard to the DAC, it was hard to find one that was Dolby-compatible and had a volume control–which turned out to be a teeny-tiny button on each side to be pressed in for volume up or (on the other side) for volume down of the analog output. A joke, really, since I heard no change either way. I had been hoping for a volume dial with calibrations, but no such luck. The unit was purchased “used” from Amazon Warehouse, so I could try to return it or at least complain but not sure even a replacement would be any better since it was such a cheesy control.

As far as the adapter controls for ‘streaming’ and ‘surroundings’ I understand what you are saying; however, it is absolutely true that the ‘surroundings’ volume affects the ‘streaming’ volume, making it louder or softer with clicks either way, even though it’s only supposed to affect the microphone, not the electronic signal from the streamer. So that’s why I’d like to have my fitter try turning down the surroundings threshold by -3db. I don’t understand the audio physics of why this is happening, but it is happening nonetheless. I realize adjusting the surroundings setting down might make conversation in the room harder to hear, but it doesn’t seem to when I turn it down slightly by hand.

Finally, with regard to the MFI control on my iPhone, I have tried to adjust the settings for microphone and streamer and, guess what? The Philips app defaults the streamer volume to the ear-splitting 84db setting on the streamer. Adjusting the mic volume there would probably revert to the default for that, which at 64db, seems okay anyway. I suspect the mic/streamer (surroundings) volume on the Philips app is really some sort of hybrid, and that’s why the streaming volume is affected by changing it.

Hm, I think maybe the Philips phone app is buggy. When using either the Oticon ON app or the iPhone MFI menu, I don’t recall having any issue of the mic sliders and the TV Adapter sliders operating and giving independent results accordingly.

Edited

I need to backtrack a little bit and announce some better news: I tried again to use the DAC volume buttons, which require repeated clicks on one side of the unit for ‘up’ and the other side for ‘down’. I didn’t think they were working, but after repeated clicks for down I actually muted the output, and then one or two clicks up from that produced a very comfortable volume for the streamer, even as the default on the app was still in effect. Long story short, I think the DAC will now work with the Philips streamer and control the too-loud default setting, even without further adjustments to the HearSuite settings. Here is the link to that DAC on Amazon if @Jack_F or anyone else wishes to order one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PGCZT45/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=117

That’s good to hear. I guess you were assuming that holding down on the “-” volume button would continuously reduce the volume to 0, but it sounds like it requires incremental clicks with each click corresponding to a set amount of reduction. I would prefer the incremental clicks in this case to help me know where I’m at because there’s no visual indication to let you know.

In reply to @Jack_F

I’d suggest you try this DAC with volume control and press the volume down button repeatedly till it mutes, then come up one or two clicks till it’s comfortable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PGCZT45/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=111

One problem I had is that this unit comes with no power supply so you’ll need a 5-V USB plug plus an older style USB 2 cable. If you look closely at the DAC image on Amazon you can see the shape of the “mini B” connection the cable end will have to fit. Inconvenient, but I had one lying around. All in all, still worth it to control that too-loud streamer volume.

In reply to @Volusiano

Well, I had figured it took clicks, but nothing perceptible had happened with half a dozen or more so I thought it wasn’t working. Really glad I tried again and hit paydirt.

The other problem with this DAC is that it came with no power supply so I had to find a 5V USB plug and older USB-2 style cable, which arrangement I will just leave plugged in since it draws little current. That way too I shouldn’t have to reset the volume control.

In reply to @Volusiano

New wrinkle: The TV Adapter was working better with the analog signal, but after being on for 10-15 minutes that signal cuts out and I get no audio unless I reconnect the DAC power supply (also tried a different adapter), and then the same thing happens 10-15 minutes later. So I’ve gone back to the Toslink digital audio and just try to deal with the volume spikes by turning down the adapter streaming volume while waiting to speak to my HAS at Costco and hopefully getting an appointment to try further tweaks to the Hear Suite streamer settings. At this point I am ready to return the DAC.

BTW, Philips advertises remote adjustments through the HearLink Connect app, which I downloaded weeks ago, but last I heard the fitter said they are still working through problems with that and he’s unable to use it to adjust my . I am rapidly getting fed up with Philips.

I think I tried to warn you in the other thread Oticon OPN 1 and TV Streamer - #33 by Volusiano the following:

@Volusiano said:

One little quirk about the Oticon TV Adapter that I ought to mention to you, though, is that if the analog audio level coming into it is low enough (below a predetermined threshold), it may still work fine, but after so many minutes, it will go into stand-by because it assumes that there’s no audio activity at the input. So you will need to set it at a volume level high enough to keep it detecting above-threshold audio to keep operating. But since your already have your Genie 2 program turned down to -9 dB, you should be able to set the audio in to the TV Adapter hot enough to keep it from going into stand-by.

I suspect that this is what you’re experiencing. You analog audio in to the TV Adapter from your DAC is set too low, below a threshold level that the TV Adapter deems to have an active analog audio going on. So after several minutes, the TV Adapter will go into standby to save energy. By recycling the DAC’s power supply, you probably started an initial large enough spike that wakes up the TV Adapter from standby again.

So the trick is to find a hot enough level of input from the analog audio going into the TV Adapter from the DAC that will keep the TV Adapter from going into standby and continue to be awake, but not too hot like the Toslink that would blow your ear drums off. I don’t know what this hot analog level needs to be, but hopefully by experimenting with it, you’ll find a working hot enough level and it’d still be acceptable to you and not too hot like your Toslink level.

That could indeed be the case! But if so, then the problem becomes whether it’s worth it to be constantly adjusting the DAC volume to keep it from becoming undetectably low yet having it at a comfortable level that beats using the digital Toslink signal directly. The default RCA is nearly as loud as the default Toslink. After all, I turned it down low for a reason. The other question is whether it will wake up from standby from the low setting that’s most comfortable if I just raise the volume up a few clicks rather than having to unplug/replug each time it goes off. Anyway, I got permission to return the item to Amazon for a refund but will still try to get it working in the middle ground you suggest before I give up on it.

The hope is that once you find a mid-ground “warm” enough level to keep the TV Adapter from falling to standby, but not too hot, then you wouldn’t need to keep adjusting that volume level anymore.

If that “warm” level is still too hot for your liking, then you can return it at that point and you won’t regret returning it too soon and didn’t try it first. So you’re doing the right thing to give it another try first before returning.

In reply to @piques46

I’m still really hoping that Philips will modify their program to allow for a lower default volume on the TV adapter. I’ll ask about this when I have my next appointment later this month. For now, I continue to turn the volume down 2 clicks every time a switch to the TV Adapter.

I was able to get the digital-to-analog converter set at a volume that did decrease the tv adapter’s blast at the default volume (without going into standby), but it’s not a perfect solution inasmuch as there is now a bit of latency that makes it difficult to have the TV speaker on for my partner while I listen through the transmitter. And there are annoying Bluetooth issues sometimes when I use the adapter. Meanwhile there is only silence from Philips despite my vigorous complaints. Not only is there not yet an updated HearLink app to address the default volumes, there also appears to be no movement toward making the HearLink Connect app work so my Costco fitter can make remote adjustments. I had wanted to try having him lower the surroundings setting for the TV adapter. If the frustration continues, I am thinking more and more of returning the Philips products to Costco and trying another brand. The TV adapter in particular seems much more primitive than ReSound or KS10 (Phonak), And the lack of being able to keep user volume settings or adjust defaults is simply intolerable. Very disappointing!

As I understand it, my Philips HearLink 9030 (made by Demant) TV Adapter would be affected by an update to the hearing aid firmware, but I haven’t been notified of any such update. Maybe a DIYer such as @Volusiano could answer the question. The adapter hardware is similar if not identical to the one used by Oticon More. It would be great if the Philips adapter would keep the user volume settings instead of defaulting to the ear-splitting 16.

I don’t know how the Philips HearSuite software manages the TV Adapter firmware update. On the Oticon Genie 2, I don’t get any notification when I open up Genie 2 because my TV Adapter is not connected to the laptop’s USB. But if I want, I can connect my TV Adapter to the laptop, open up Genie 2, then run the Accessories Updater to find the TV Adapter, then after it’s connected, it’ll tell me if there’s a new firmware to update for it or not. Bottom line is that I have to check and update manually if I want. No notification.

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