A book i read by Derrick Coleman who was a legally deaf NFL player reminds me of the action that both yourself and Derrick took in rehabilitation. I wish i had received that kind of advice that you received in my childhood. Another book i am currently reading by Paul Stanley of the KISS band from the US is that he was born with microtia and is deaf in one ear. The challenges that people face with single sided deafness was quite an eye opener to learn. never worked for him as he says he left it too late in his early 30’s. I found a guy on youtube by the name of tai lopez and he claims he reads a book a day. I started doing the same for a short while which could only enhance my speed reading skills! Mostly the books i read are biographies/autobiographies and educational. I burnt my bachelor of business degree paper as i felt it was useless in getting work and find reading books for self knowledge and application (always take action) will make a much more educated person a thousand fold.
I can speed read, but I still prefer savoring the books I read. I do my best to soak it all in. And I most times become the characters in the series that I enjoy reading.
What you wrote here sounds logical.
I too suspect having cochlear dead regions, and your findings align with mine about hearing behaviour.
However, I’d strongly encourage you to find another or several more fitters for second opinion.
Something is REALLY fishy if you can hear and understand people to some degree and then not be able to hear anything comprehensible. It totally looks like an attempt to sell you most expensive aids and service…
Sorry that my post made you anxious. That might be additional sign that something’s there.
Go for another clinic and another opinion.
Don’t be trigger happy to give away your money.
I went through 5 fitters in Croatia (that I can count), one was nice guy who cared but didn’t have equipment, others were interested only in money (also no equipment). Two in Germany, one claimed that REM is obsolete and useless
And I finally found a proper educated guy who follows best practice.
Fun fact, he’s the cheapest of the bunch.
And about measuring, in Croatia a ton of folks did tonal audiometry on me, once I did speech (), nothing else. However, except once, they always did it properly.
In Germany, beside my chosed fitter, in practices they did pathetic job of measuring, errors, not masking, not sending right stuff to the right ear and so on. Horrible. That included evaluation initial exam. I was facepalming there.
Point: for price alone it’s worth seeking offers, but if you’re not sure about your loss and tech and overall ability of those two - second and third opinion is IMO a MUST.
You want to work with someone who knows what they’re doing.
And WRS works perfectly and measures what it has to do IF administered correctly.
Yes, that might even be changing recording from male to female and such.
Also, you shouldn’t concentrate, idea of the test is that you repeat what you heard, not what you think you’ve heard.
Anxiety might squeeze your brain, but if that’d be the case, then you would have issues comprehending people immediately after they opened the booth.
I won’t nag anymore, I’m aware that I might look like that, since it all shows that you aren’t been treated fairly and I just have the urge to stop that from happening to you (not giving you your WTF?! that’s huge red flag, HUGE - you should have it, and discuss it and understand everything about it BEFORE you come to he point of picking first aid for trialling, and ideally, not leaving any money for trial either)
Good luck!
edit:
in case you didn’t read this document:
It’s a file from dr cliff, where he explains all steps that follow best practice.
You can easily see what you got from your fitter and what you’re supposed to get, and you’ll be able to confirm for yourself are they doing best or worst or mediocre practice, and then decide how you’d like to approach it.
I brought this doc to my fitter and he told me which parts he doesn’t do and why (quicksin equivalent, first it doesn’t exist in German in a form as quicksin is, but is something that just uses white noise and not speech babble IIRC, and second, insurance doesn’t care about its results nor are paying for test)
But this doc really helped me to understand why my previous fitter IS a really bad one, and why my current one is a good one (but not perfect one).
You’re ignoring this member’s posts.
BlackyZürich, CH 2021-now // Berlin, DE 2017-2021 // HR origin
t was the young lady Audiologist right out of school that told me; If I didn’t take responsibility to do my part in my hearing issues why should any audiologist do anything but the bare minimum requirements. I took that to heart, and started doing my own research, I took advantage of her fresh out of school knowledge and ask all type of questions, some I am sure she thought was stupid and crazy.
This is awesome!
And I seriously doubt she thought your questions are stupid.
If anything, they showed her how do you think and process information and she might even because of them be able to help you better.
It’s definitely completely different when someone comes with ‘I’m not happy’ vs ‘when I do this, and this setting is on, then I don’t understand, but if I do that, then I can understand this but not that, and I think it might be x as cause’
You might be correct with conclusion or not, but whole process is invaluable.
I’m glad that I started digging about my loss and not being 40 yet. Ok, my was overnight so definitely noticable. But still, because of poor fitters and general dismissivness about my loss from others (docs), I didn’t dig deeper until I came here. So when I look back, I basically wasted 5+ years of my life on not understanding it sooner and with that being able to help myself better.
Direct streaming in ear, OMG I’d kill someone today because no one told me how great thing that is.
I did ask about what’s tv thing, but was told that I don’t need that, that that’s for old deaf folks.
And that was the best fitter who told me (in Croatia).
Horrible.
Yes, I know that I have internet, but when I lost it, there wasn’t much about it, not sure if this forum existed (2014?), I did found that my loss is rare, that aids aren’t made to help with it but that’s about it. I did try several models (no ), I remember phonak was so bad that I pulled it out in pain and threw on the table with ‘no fucking way’
And I pick widex because it was red and because it was the least horrible one.
Also, most important is that I did listening therapy, like 10 or 20 sessions, several per week, guy would read some texts, I had to repeat, then he’d add noises and distance and whatnot.
So aids did help, but I stopped with therapy (because guy had a serious accident and was on sick leave for more than a year, and I left for Germany and was unemployed so sitting at home most of the time, so yeah, my loss got worse and I didn’t notice it until I started being curious about new tech)
Best thing you can do for yourself is not postpone digging around, even if you didn’t do it early enough - it’s never too late, and more information really might help you better understand, better adapt and cope (like, knowing how sound works, and avoiding walls in front of you and such), and also - be able to explain to others what you really need.
For example, I need slower and simple words, not louder.
With that, you’ll ensure your future life be somewhat easier, and THAT’s worth the effort, no matter how many years that really is.
Also, I admire so many of you here being 70+ and digging and trying to understand, and make it better for yourself as opposed to just giving up or saying how others mumble / are not loud enough.
You’re ignoring this member’s posts.
BlackyZürich, CH 2021-now // Berlin, DE 2017-2021 // HR origin
If I understood correctly, they @Deafas was given test where person spoke to the mic directly (since deafas mentioned closing eyes in order to not lip read), and that really isn’t good thing, even with well meaning fitter - because of trailing, taking pauses and whatnot.
And such huge discrepancy from ‘zero on test’ vs ‘being able to comprehend people’ is just fishy.
Yes, test is short words, and accent definitely plays a role, however, unless recorded, it really can be manipulated.
Add to that the fact that he didn’t discuss or got it, to me that just screams bad practice, or better said, malpractice.
My audiologist wore headphones and i could see her lips because she would say something every now and again through my headphones such as changing the test from words to sentences. I had my eyes closed so i could not see her lips as i wanted to ensure i could hear everything through the headphones alone. The recorded voice was the test voice. I am going to get fitted and cannot change audio as i am paying $1500 for the service fee (3 yr service). I was given the option of $300 h/r which seems a bit much.
I will be having as i had watched Dr Cliff Olson and had to search for a clinic who conducted this test. There are not many clinics around who do REM. Yes, i am hoping my audio is skilled at fitting although she may not have fitted anybody yet wit the Starkey livio edge custom model as i mentioned and she was unaware that it does not exist for and half shell. I pointed out that it only exists for Full Shell and we checked her computer to see that i was right. I am paying $1500 for a 3 yr unlimited service plan so it will be hard to change audio once i pay. It was either this plan or pay $300 and hour for service. Wish me luck
I showed the audio my old from 30 yrs ago and i ask to compare it with my new audiogram. The left ear had dropped significantly. I will ask her to email me the audiogram copy when i start the trial. I am 52 now and feel i may have left it for too long as i have had moderate hearing loss since i was a child and now it seems severe/profound but hopefully it is not too late. I can see you have had a lot of experience with audiologists. I will keep reading your posts as they are informative and helps me make better decisions.
I am 52 now and feel i may have left it for too long as i have had moderate hearing loss since i was a child and now it seems severe/profound but hopefully it is not too late.
It’s not too late. When you get your new aids you will most likely hear many new sounds. They may sound like gibberish or foreign sounds. Give your brain a chance to relearn these sounds and turn them into speech, be patient.
The posts from Neville are exactly what you need, a pro with years of experience.
Will do, thanks. It’s something i have never experienced before having normal or near normal sounds ans i am 52 yrs old. I do not know what to expect. Yes, i will be eagerly absorbing sounds and going shopping and walking around and listening to everything i can on youtube. Brain retraining i had no idea existed and should have done something about it 30 years ago and ignored my specialist telling me there is nothing i can do for my type of hearing loss. Neville gave me his thoughts and was exactly what i needed for keeping my mind relaxed in the coming weeks before i start the trial. Somehow i feel i may need a cochlear implant but not sure just yet.
You’re ignoring this member’s posts.
BlackyZürich, CH 2021-now // Berlin, DE 2017-2021 // HR origin
Yes, i am hoping my audio is skilled at fitting although she may not have fitted anybody yet wit the Starkey livio edge custom model as i mentioned telecoil and she was unaware that it does not exist for ITC and half shell.
This doesn’t matter that much actually - when fitted, almost all brands behave the same (Widex might be problematic). So fitter doesn’t need to know the aid in their soul to be able to give you great first fit.
Another thing, those aids all have same stuff for options, pool is limited and how they work is known, difference is how they call it, and if specific model has option X or not.
So, if they did their training properly and actually understand audiology and sounds, then again, it doesn’t matter which aids are on the table. Professional knows how to work with any (proper aids from major manufacturers).
About brain training.
I don’t know how long your trial is, but keep in mind that if you start working on your training, you’ll see incremental results in monthly steps, not just during a month or two of trial.
Of course, highest jump will be now with new/first aids, but brain needs time to adapt and (re)learn to use those sounds, and you just need to keep pushing it to evolve.
Like, when I started my trial, /molds were horrible from the comprehension point, and I could stand only open ones (got best results that way). A week ago I went on molds, in meantime I was gradually increasing how closed thins were by changing them and redoing REM with my fitter every few months.
And I definitely can rely more on my bad ear now than I could when this all restarted, so a year ago.
Even though I was happy to ‘hear something and comprehend something’ back then when I got new aids, I couldn’t hold phone conversations with that ear alone. Now it’s a struggle but doable if needed.
So if you notice significant improvement immediately, that’s good and just keep working.
To me, direct audio streaming (youtube from phone or tv) was a game changer. I spend several hours a day streaming, some things while I do something else, but some I listen while focused. I even stream only to my bad ear for some German learning, to really focus on what’s being said and reading while it’s being said. Heavy duty work
Neville recommends repeating out loud afterwards but I’m too lazy for that. Idea is that if you repeat, you’ll help your brain develop pathways faster.
That works, I had therapy back then when I lost my hearing, to the point that I didn’t get since therapy alone was enough to keep my brain working on that side for a year or so. Main reason for going HA route was sound orientation and being lazy to go to therapies, plus my therapist had major accident and was unable to work, then I moved to Germany.
What I didn’t know back then is how lazy brain really is if you don’t give it eanough stimulation, and in my case wearing HA alone wasn’t enough, that I see now. Since my good ear is normal hearing, it took all load and despite HA in bad ear, stimulation just wasn’t enough.
Brain wants to do things with least effort. So, streaming with these new aids really get this engine moving
I started with marvel in April last year I think, then switched fitters to someone who does REM and then paradise came out so I switched to that, so basically I had like 5 months of trialling - took me just a week to decide for paradises, but fitter insisted that we wait with payment for insurances response, so I paid them in January. Tehnically, all things combined, I had 8 months of trial before paying, but ok, that’s because I found some ‘crazy’ fitter
I wore some widex before which didn’t work useful anymore for me, I mostly stopped wearing them because it was better without them. What I didn’t know is that my hearing got a bit worse, since I didn’t do check ups.
Also, my latest checkup (last month) shows a bit worse than previously, but my comprehension was never better. Figures
Sound directly in ear is single best thing you can get from HA
Even if you need intermediary devices to make sound come to ear, but skipping the air makes it so much more useful and understandable
Good luck and keep us posted!
You might open your own topic even?
Yesterday we entered full lockdown in my city. I cannot go to my audiologist appointment until the next couple of weeks since they are hard to get a booking too.
I realise i must be an expert at lipreading as i see people talking with masks on but wonder how on earth the other person can possibly understand what is being said with the cloth covering the other persons mouth? Really amazing!
Yes it was a worry when i know how much you mentioned about finding many different fitters before you could settle on a good fitter. I thought Oh No, if the audio doesn’t know much about the Starkey custom then how will she know how to fit/adjust it properly. So will be vital for a good fitting i can understand and glad this confirms that the fitting should go well.
As i am receiving Starkey Livio Edge ITC it seems to be a different setup than as there is no tubing or outer mould. Maybe this will be easier to fit than BTE?
Currently i only have a hearing amplifier with a silicone dome. When i turned the volume on full the feedback was dreadful although i had several domes to choose and the largest on stopped the feedback. They can be painful to wear all day so i limit using them to 4 hrs daily.
The trial with the Starkey Livio Edge ITC will go for 30 days although it is hard to know what to expect as i don’t know what real sound is supposed to sound like? Both my ears were moderate hearing loss from birth and i never wore hearing aids before. I was given one BTE for school and this ended up in my cupboard drawer for 46 yrs since i was 6 years old. When i moved house recently i found it and tried it on. It was analog and sounded like a small motor running.
Later in my early 20’s i tried a from a dispenser and this was no help at all since it was too small and i have bilateral hearing loss. Boy did i save hard for that $1200 that was flushed down the toilet. I then went to an who had a small machine on a table opposite me for the test which was a tonal test with press button. I am told here is no hope with my hearing loss. Oh well i thought…i will just to forget about it and press on with life.
Yes i plan on watching youtube and listening to many different peoples tone of voice to retrain my brain. I tried learning French last few years ago as i like to travel in Europe and UK although the way the French force the tongue is strange to an Australian But i plan on learning again once i can hear better. As odd as it seems i learn best from French comics such as TinTin as language books can be kind of dry and boring. I got this trait from my grandfather who read Dandy/Beano comics in Scotland.
About Nevilles method. Reciting sounds aloud seems good because it also helps our speech if one has a speech impediment. Nobody has ever told me that i had any speech problem. I was told by a speech therapist that i miss some consonents in my speech so by brain retraing i may need to start saying words out loud too. It does seem like learning a new language even though it seems strange to speak aloud in the native tongue. Well the funny thing is that when we had VHS cassettes many years ago i had to rewind the tape over and over to grasp what was being said. Like beating a dead horse over and over. Even songs on the radio i made up my own lyrics on the radio and they sounded better than the real lyrics once i read the lyrics in later years from google.
I will try the Starkey microphone clip so it can sit next to the tv and pipe the sound by bluetooth directly to the ears. I am reluctant piping sound directly to the ears as i used to see my dad wear headphones while watching late night marathon episodes of John Wayne/Clint East wood cowboy shows from the US and he went profoundly deaf at 75!
I do read everyones post and thanks for the valuable contribution. Hearing loss has been a very personal thing all my life. (A BIG secret or skeleton in the closet) that i never shared with anyone about since i never wanted to be treated any differently than my peers at school or in any work situation from birth to adulthood.
Reading motivational books from Tony Robbins, inspirational books and speeches by Arnold Swarzenegger, biographies/autobiographies…all these books told me that every human being has faced huge challenges in their life. This was a wake up call and i set about making big changes to my life that i have mostly overcome. Still got a long way to go and it is good to hear about other members here who have overcome and still learning to overcome their hearing loss challenge
PS i wish i paid attention in typing class. The hunt and peck typing style is a pain the butt
While waiting for a pair of hearing aids to be fitted for the first time since birth, this past month of trying out hearing amplifiers has brought sounds i have not heard for over 46 years.
Driving car - ticking sound when i put indicator on. Also gravel type sound from the road (maybe car tyres rolling on the road makes a noise, very strange when the road is smooth! Possibly wind noise even though the windows are up. I tried closing all the electric buttons from the windows and roof top opener although they were already fully up. I wind the window down
while driving along the beach coast. I hear voices as i drive past surfies and cafes, no way! They are 5 metres away but i swear i did hear them.
Tap - running water for first time, amazing! I swapped the plug amplifiers to a pair of Resound amplifiers and turned them to full volume. To my disbelief i could hear water gurgle down the drain and the neighbours tv.
There is a tuner inside the Resound amplifiers which i had to turn down with a screwdriver as sounds like cutlery was very loud and sharp and i had to run when flushing the toilet as it was very sharp. The sounds are now deeper and warm with the lower frequency. Toilet flushes sound deep and dull. But words still make no sense with hearing amplifiers on at full volume. The tv sounds very loud at 30 knots volume but i cannot understand a word. I switch channels to see if it is better but no luck here either.
I went shopping and got confused with the new sounds. A guy is talking loud as i am approaching a cafe. Just his loud voice but i don’t know where he is?
The self checkout machine made a beeping noise when i swiped the groceries. Outside i hear a sharp squeek. Ah, so that’s what a small BIRD sounds like!! Magpies and crows i could always kind of hear so nothing new here.
At home i hear the fridge running and the airconditioner is way too loud. I turned the tv on and the aircon had to be turned off. First thought…How does anyone watch tv with the aircon on in the background is beyond belief! Microwave makes a sharp beeping sound! I quickly turn it off as it makes too many beeps when its finished.
It has started raining. I can hear the rain hitting the roof! Wow! I open the slider door and it is loud rain. What a joy to hear rain for the first time.
I hear footsteps. I quickly turn around to see what this is all about. My own footsteps, lol
Lying down feeling exhausted from all these new sounds i can actually hear my own breathing. No way that is impossible you may say but it is true folks!
Some people in the past told me they can hear leaves rattling in the wind? Some say they can hear rain hit the paving. This i have not yet experienced. Some say they can hear a cat meow. This i can only laugh!
I am sure i will hear very differently with hearing aids which i cannot wait to try.
You’re ignoring this member’s posts.
BlackyZürich, CH 2021-now // Berlin, DE 2017-2021 // HR origin
Reciting sounds aloud seems good because it also helps our speech if one has a speech impediment.
Not just when you have speech impediment but for general training of the brain. I think Neville and I discussed that in my topic about LACE training therapy, try to dig that up
When I did my therapy in person, repeating what I’ve heard was easy way for therapist to confirm the correctness. Although, his English was worse than mine and sometimes he concluded that I didn’t heard something right because I pronounce things differently Therapy was in Croatian, but he was reading me books/reports about hiking which had foreign names of places and people
But, when you have to repeat, your brain focuses more, gives that ‘more juice’ as opposed to passive listening or focused listening. Since it concludes that it obviously matters more to you, so it better be doing better job.
Like, if you just listen something, like a list of items, and then have to repeat it 2 minutes later, you’d suck.
If you do visualisations while listening, and then repeating 2 minutes later, you’ll be much much better.
If you think about what you’ve listening, take it down, close your notes and then repeat, you’d be even better.
When we intentionally listen and utilise other means (writing, repeating), our brain makes better pathways, which as a consequence has that your brain gets better at deciphering certain sound sequences.
I am reluctant piping sound directly to the ears as i used to see my dad wear headphones while watching late night marathon episodes of John Wayne/Clint East wood cowboy shows from the US and he went profoundly deaf at 75!
For those headphones I assume he adjusted volume on his own. Also, increasing the volume might be a consequence of loss that already happened, but also, could cause the further loss.
Good thing about aids is that they’re SAFE when fitted by proper fitter.
So, they increase volume only for frequencies you need (unlike headphones which can only increase everything, and consequently if you have high frequency loss, you might damage low frequency cells with too much volume over time).
Also, there are bulit in protections from sudden loud sounds, in short, if you wear /molds with good seal, nothing louder than I think 85db can even enter your head
are amplifiers, but are not headphones
And direct streaming just means that you transfer sound between two devices without loss through the air, like distance between speakers and mics on aids or external mics.
Whenever sound travels through the air, there’s loss in sound quality. If you can avoid that, or reduce the distance - do it.
I’m don’t know how starkey enables listening TV, and how this microphone clip works. I mean, when you say external mic and bluetooth I’m a bit confused, because I’m not sure what you mean.
Like, external mic can be seated in front of some speakers, and then mic transfers via to your aids. However, if you can avoid this, do. Since you have ‘sound over air’ situation.
If you have a way that sound is only transfered via wires and BT/other wireless connections, use that. Like, for phonak and TV there’s device called TV connector, you plug it on your optical output on tv, and it utilises some wifi protocol to transfer sound, and you get it directly in your aids. Pure awesomeness
PS i wish i paid attention in typing class. The hunt and peck typing style is a pain the butt
That too will get better with practice. I never did typing classes and started with hunt and peck when I got my first computer, that’s around 23 years now (end of primary school). A lot of forum hours later, I think I’ve started typing without looking at the keyboard in like 3-4 years (end of high school)?
Few years later I’ve switched to US keyboard layout, because and {} are faster to type on it, and I went to get CS degree
Now I swap between DE and US layout depending on what I type.
But yeah, literal years of typing are invested there
Some say they can hear a cat meow. This i can only laugh!
I can vouch for that, they indeed meow, I have two
For me, fun part of rediscovering new aids was using external microphone (roger pen/select) and put it under my cat’s nose to hear them breathing and purring. So loud
Mind you, I have low frequency loss.
Oh and I decided that I don’t want to hear all those sounds after I’ve heard some of them, like, fridge brumming and such, so I had that readjusted. I prefer quietness
I will be fitted with new hearing aids soon and wondering why people still need accessories for picking up clarity of speech at distances of > 2 metres such as tv or voices?
So the sound is perceived as being loud when wearing hearing aids and watching tv but there is still no clarity or word understanding? Is this common for most folks?
Does the majority of hearing aid wearers need accessories to work with their hearing aids?
I have cheap hearing amplifier plugs that cost $100 and i can understand voices up to 1 metre in my good ear although i am obtaining hearing aids in order to get much better clarity with tv and voices at longer distances.
Does this mean that the latest hearing aids can only get word recognition from voices or TV up to 1 to 2 metres distance? It seems to me that hearing aids will amplify sound but is causing problems with clarity that normal hearing persons do not have trouble with.
I can understand these accessories may be of great assist for profound hearing loss although i don’t understand why they would be needed for moderate or severe hearing loss? This tells me that hearing aids still do not work over 2-3 metres distances? Please correct me if i am wrong?
Are modern hearing aids still not effective for listening to TV at normal distance say 3-4 metres? Or talking at a distance of 3-4 metres?
I was hoping i could rely on my hearing aids alone when talking at a distance or watching tv!
If the hearing aids don’t correct my hearing then i would be needing the Starkey mini remote or full size i guess i am wanting to take this with me everywhere. To clip on a friend when i go fishing so i can hear what this friend is saying in the distance. Also, when i visit my parents house or other friends house and we sometimes watch a bit of tv. i can place the mini microphone next to the tv. This is bluetooth to the hearing aids and will be sound over air is what you call it.
I gather the wifi method with a tv connector connected with cables to the tv would be better for sound quality as it pipes sound directly from the tv to the hearing aids over wifi. Starkey does have a TV streamer which would be the same as a TV connector.
I like the idea of the mini microphone being mobile so it can be used in the car as well as sometimes when someone is sitting in the backseat and i can clip this on the person.
Also it can be good at a cafe or at say a university and clip on the lecturers shirt. But at home i would be better with a wifi tv streamer that plugs into the tv as it will have better clarity than sound over the air. I can understand now.
I don’t know if anybody here has experience with the starkey remote microphone clips for tv use or left on a table at a cafe or perhaps clipped to a friends shirt in the car?
It has been more than 46 years since i have seen a hearing aid besides a cic and coming here now in 2021 i am very surprised that accessories are needed.
This TV streamer would need cables to be plugged into the back of the TV.
why people still need accessories for picking up clarity of speech at distances of > 2 metres such as tv or voices?
So the sound is perceived as being loud when wearing hearing aids and watching tv but there is still no clarity or word understanding? Is this common for most HOH folks?
I think you need to try your before getting too concerned about accessories… every one is different.
I had to use subtitles/closed captions until I got my first HAs 10 days ago. Now I can hear the tv - several meters away- and understand it without captions. It is now at a “normal volume” according to my wife
No accessories required. That’s me - maybe not you. Wait and see how you go?
Hot Springs Village, Arkansas
Oticonian/Disposablyte
I hope you Aussies aren’t still burning 
whale oil 
! Eek!
because no one told me how great thing that is.
But i plan on learning again once i can hear better. As odd as it seems i learn best from French comics such as TinTin as language books can be kind of dry and boring. I got this trait from my grandfather who read Dandy/Beano comics in Scotland.
Australia