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Flutter or vibrato when I whistle

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I’m a whistler… I whistle while I work…sometimes whistle along when listening to music…when I’m board…
when I hit higher notes my Audeo M’s really kick into a flutter.
I’m guessing it’s something of a automatic feedback reduction loop it’s catching itself in
and sometimes it’s kind of a cool affect… but sometimes it’s annoying.

When I was trialing the Oticon Opn aids I never noticed it. Incedently, I’d say the lack of a feedback whine was the one area where the Opn’s really shined. I don’t think I could make the things whistle more than 1/4 of a second, even laying on a pillow. These Phonaks will give a feedback whistle when covered, etc… not bad, very minor, but it’s there sometimes.

Anyway…and ideas as to something I might ask my audiologist to adjust to reduce the flutter without hurting anything else?

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Perhaps helpful to your question is the following thread. Funny when searching for it, I decided to look for “tremulo” and had trouble locating it. Would be good if the forum SEARCH software was smart enough to include a search on synonyms (or misspellings!) as a user choice option. I picked “trill” as my second guess and fortunately a poster within the thread used that term instead.

Phonak Marvel - vibrating tremolo effect for high pitched (electronic) sounds
I have been trying out the Phonak Marvel M70 and M50 and I have noticed that electronic beeps produce an irritating tremolo echoing sound instead of one continuous tone. I especially notice that when the safety belt alarm goes off in my car and when I’m using the induction hob in the kitchen, which also beeps when I activate it. Selecting a manual program like music does not change that behaviour compared to auto sense. Has anyone noticed the same? What could be done to avoid that effect? Is i…
@bradw said:

Anyway…and ideas as to something I might ask my audiologist to adjust to reduce the flutter without hurting anything else?

The 2-4 kHz range is susceptible to feedback. While your loss is not that bad overall, most of it is in that range. When your hearing aids “hear” that pure whistle frequency they probably think it is feedback and try to suppress it. There are two techniques used that I know of. The older method is to use a notch filter and try and kill the “offending feedback” which in your case may be just your whistle. Or, the aids may shift the frequency of the whistle tone so it will not build up as feedback. You may be hearing the impact of that second technique.

What type of fittings do you have? If you open fittings you might want to consider closed or semi closed fittings. That can help to reduce feedback. However, with a pure whistle it still might trigger the feedback suppression.

In reply to @jim_lewis

@jim_lewis said:

tremolo

well that’s a new word for me! Looked it up, and I think that defines it exactly! I’ll read through that thread, thanks

And thanks Sierra. The “second” technique you described sounds very likely…just a gut feel about it, but I think that’s what it’s doing.

The first technique you describe makes me think of what my audiologist has done a few times already, tuning down the hair rubbing noise, and a few other things. Makes me nervous about purposely turning down so many frequencies.
I suppose though you mean more of a temporary auto adjust strategy the aids use to block feedback.

In reply to @jim_lewis

@jim_lewis said:

Perhaps helpful to your question is the following thread.

that was a very helpful thread you pointed to. Thanks Jim!
I have added whistle stop to my list of questions for my next aud appt. Either set up a music listening program or maybe even turn it down or off for all programs

The feedback adjustment to be made in Target 6.1 software for the Audeo Marvels is called WhistleStop. I play the piano and I set WhistleStop = OFF only on my “Music” program. Now when I listen to music or play my piano, all vestiges of tremolo are gone. When I change my program back to AutoSense OS 3.0, the default amount of WhistleStop is again in effect.

thanks TraderGary, i’m glad you replied… I was under the impression after reading through that other thread (too quickly) that you had or were going to turn off the whistle stop for all programs

I have a audiolgist visit planned later this week, for just a routine post fitting follow-up. I’m thinking of asking her to take away the tinitus white noise program (I never use it) and replace it with one for listening to music. I also have a t-coil program. I’d rather just have only two programs since I find it annoying to have to flip through multiple, and being uncertain about getting into the one I want…

I don’t listen to a lot of music, but I do enjoy several types and have been bothered by the tremelo a few times…such as listing to a nice classical string quartet, or recently listening to a duet of my niece and nephew on viola and violin. It’s not often such a bother with other genres such as pop/rock/folk/blue grass…in fact sometimes it ‘adds’ to the music in a positive way…

I did briefly try shutting off WhistleStop on all programs, but as soon as I had anything close to my ears the feedback was too much. The closeness of being in my car caused constant feedback. I immediately turned default WhistleStop back on for AutoSense OS 3.0. But for the Music Program I have WhistleStop = OFF.

I found the same thing with having multiple programs I never used. It was a bother having to switch through all of them just to go between the two that I actually used. I only have two programs set up now. AutoSense OS 3.0 and Music. That makes it easy to switch back and forth between them.

I will try the Marvel next Friday because the OPN-S has the issue of warbling. The feedback shield used to see whistling or high pitch or extended letters (ooooo) and then it starts warbling sounds. Then to avoid This we had to switch off feedback while and here comes the feedback appears (unless I have to use the biggest double dome Oticon have which made my ears itchy and painful).
Can someone advise if the Marvel “Whistle block” have same feedback effect or it’s manageable ??
Also did anyone came from the OPN to Marvel and what’s his experience?

Thanx

I have Phonak Audeo Marvel M90-R’s. Our are very different, so your experience may be different from mine. I’m very pleased with WhistleBlock turned OFF only on my Music Program. There is no warble or tremolo when playing my piano or listening to music.

Thanks for the reply.
Let me ask you if you that you only switch whistle block off during music because if it is on, then the tremolo occur!?
Also, is this an option in the new my Phonak app which you can access or it’s only by Audi

In reply to @AshFan

@AshFan said:

Also did anyone came from the OPN to Marvel and what’s his experience?

I trialed the opn oticon’s for a few weeks and then trialed these marvels. it was a first time trial so I’m sure they were not turned up all the way for my needs…and I have no idea as to what she had switched on or how they were set up. i was trialling them though, trying all sorts of volume settings, different programs she’d set up, etc…
but in my case, the OPN’s I could barely get to give any feedback whistle at all. Even laying my head in the pillow I’d only hear a very subtle almost not there whistle. I don’t believe I ever not once heard the tremelo.
That was probably the first and biggest thing I noticed between the two… the marvel aids whistled a lot more. A whole lot more. Also, it seemed to me that the OPN’s were much better with wind noise, my hear rubbing them, etc.
I went with the phonak’s though. Overall I liked them better…and a lot of that has been fixed through adjustments in the program by my audiologist.

I had now the OPN-S1 which have the aggressive feedback manager but this comes with a problem of warbling, which oticon admitted it when my Audi called them.
Without the feedback shield it comes back to be the same as OPN but again I had to face the feedback “ or use a very tight and painful largest domes to stop it”.
From what I read in other forums that Marvel is almost same as OPN “same sound clarity & processing and sound in noise” with much less of warbling & feedback.
I agreed with my Audi to try it and if not satisfied will go back to OPN- S .

it worked…thank you!!!
I talked with my aud this morning about what you had suggested. She turned off the whistlestop in the autosense music program. I didn’t end up having her add a new custom music program… this si good enough for e I thing/hope. She also turned down the whistlestop a notch or two across the board. I can’t so far tell any significant difference or increase in feedback, but the tremelo sound is greatly reduced.

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