I have the same problem as most hearing aid users in noisy environments. I had dinner recently with a normal-hearing friend who was using Bose noise-cancelling earbuds. I tried them, and they wonderfully blocked out the noise. Of course they did not amplify the sound and compensate for my hearing loss. While it was hard to hear what people were saying, overall they were more comfortable than my hearing aids that were amplifying both the conversations and all the clatter in the restaurant.
I wear Signia Pure which work well in most situations but not noise.So my question: is it possible to combine the Bose-type noise cancelling features into a hearing aid program. The “noisy environment” program that comes with the is pretty useless.
I wear Oticon OPN1 hearing aids and I have no issues with noisy environments. My aids are even to quiet at times. It is all about getting them setup correctly
Speech in noise is a problem for many of us. It’s especially challenging for those of us like you who have decent low frequency hearing because there is nothing hearing aid settings can do to reduce the lower frequency noise you hear. It can be reduced somewhat by a more closed fitting (minimally vented domes or custom molds) This is one advantage the Bose earbuds have is that they are likely much more occlusive than your domes (likely open). The second issue is Signal to Noise ratio. If you were comparing hearing sound being streamed to Bose earbuds, it would have had a great signal to noise ratio because just the signal is being amplified. Directional microphones can minimally improve signal to noise ratio, but to substantially improve it requires a . Resound MultiMic and Phonak Roger devices are generally considered to be a step above the others, but the Signia Streamline Mic should give you some help. For speech in loud noise, you’d want it setup so that when using the Streamline Mic, the hearing aids are giving minimal, if any amplification to sounds coming through their microphones. @jim_lewis How do you do in loud noise with your custom molds and MultiMic?
I have been following descriptions of this new product closely. Any idea when it will be available? Is it worth trying the Bose Hearphone in the meantime? BTW, Psych1, are you in mental health? I’m a psychiatrist. --Steve
I wear Signia Pure RICs which work well in most situations but not noise.So my question: is it possible to combine the Bose-type noise cancelling features into a hearing aid program.
I think the short answer is “no”. However as the saying goes, never say never. Basically noise cancelling headphones if these are like the ones I have, use a microphone on the outside of the headphones, and inverts the phase of everything that it “hears”. The inverted phase signal is played inside the headphone and if done right cancels out the surrounding sound. They are normally used when streaming an audio signal like music to the input side of the headphones. The net result is that the streamed signal is left unchanged while the surrounding noise is attenuated. The problem is that like hearing aids there is no practical way of sorting out noise from voices that you want to hear. It attenuates everything.
Hearing aids kind of try to do the same thing but without the phase inversion trick. They try and decide when and where there is something important to hear, and adjust gain and microphone directionality to pick up what the hearing aid decides may be of interest. I don’t think any of the manufacturers have figured out (yet) how to really separate the noise from voices.
I have the KS8 aids which are basically Signia 7Nx ’s. Depending on the version of Pure aids you have they may be similar. My best efforts to deal with restaurant noise (other than avoiding noisy restaurants) is to use the Noise/Party program, and turn the volume down some. I try to sit with my back to the source of most of the noise and away from reflective walls. I also use the microphone focus that is part of the main automatic program. Sometimes it helps, and at other times not so much.
What fittings are you using? Your loss looks similar to my left ear. I probably should be using custom molds but I tried and could not get used to them. I now use Signia closed sleeves. They are not quite as good for preventing feedback and giving me some isolation from noise as molds, but are still pretty good. The advantage of closed fittings is that they can improve the directionality of the microphone system, and avoid low frequency sound that you hear pretty well, from getting in through the vents. That low frequency sound is much of the noise.
Steve - yes, I’m semi-retired pediatric psychologist.
Bose Hearphones worked better for me than any of my "premium " until I got new Phonak M90s. I expect the Bose HAs to be very similar but even better. They should be out “soon”
There are some old Hearphones threads on this site.
Thanks for your response. Yes, my loss looks very much like your left ear. My Signia 7Nx Pure are similar to the KS8. I’m really quite happy with these hearing aids except in noisy environments. From what I read on this forum, almost everyone seems to have the same problem in places like restaurants. I am eager to see the new Bose noise cancelling aids. If they work as well as their Hearphone, I’ll just switch them with my Signias when I am in noise.
I have always used open molds because they fit me much better than domes. When I have tried closed fittings, however, I get a lot of occlusion effect on my own voice.
I have always used open molds because they fit me much better than domes. When I have tried closed fittings, however, I get a lot of occlusion effect on my own voice.
This is what I get in the Connexx software using prescription, P receivers, and an open mold fitting. The gain curves go way into the red and blue shaded feedback zones. If this is what you have I suspect the fitter has turned the prescribed gain way down in the 2000+ Hz frequency range. The software is also suggesting you would benefit from frequency compression where the 5-10 kHz zone is compressed down to the 5-8 kHz zone.
Here is what it shows when the vent size is reduced to the recommended 2.5 mm size. This is actually not a real small vent, but a medium. Notice that there is now about a 10+ margin from the feedback zones, and the full prescribed gain can be used. It is still showing a frequency compression.
Some molds can accept sleeves into the vent hold to reduce the size. If that can be done, you may be able to reduce the vent size without getting them remade. As far as the occlusion effect on your own voice, have you done the Own Voice Processing step with the fitter? You count from 20 up to 30 or so, until the computer learns the sound of your own voice. Once it is trained then there are three settings that can be used to reduce the effect the more closed fitting has on your own voice. I use closed sleeves, and have the Own Voice set to max.
I think going to the optimum sized vents in your mold could go a long way to helping hearing in noisy environments. I think all aids have issues in that environment, but optimizing the setup can help a lot.
@jim_lewis How do you do in loud noise with your custom molds and MultiMic?
The following kinda summarizes stuff I’ve already posted here and there around the forum.
The ReSound Multi Mic is a that only works with ReSound ’s, I believe, because it uses ReSound’s proprietary Bluetooth Low Energy streaming protocol to send the digitized sound picked up by the mic(s) to the HA’s. It’s a small Li-ion battery powered device designed to be either hung around the neck of a specific person that you want to hear better, in which configuration it works in “unidirectional mode” like a lavier microphone, or to be placed horizontally on a table, in which configuration it works in omidirectional mode. I have also found informally that it can still be pretty unidirectional if you hold it at a 45 degree angle to vertical and point it at the person you want to hear if they are just a few feet away - or prop it up on a table with a keycase or folded napkin also ~achieves the same.
It works pretty well. I can hear my soft-spoken wife very well when she’s sitting in the front passenger seat and we’re driving at high speed on an Interstate highway (although if she rustles her clothes it can sound like thunder and lightening! - and be a little startling while driving). It can also be a definite improvement in restaurants but in very bare-surface restaurants it can still be challenging because in spite of the mic’s directionality, in a very noisy restaurant, the noise is still being reflected off many surfaces right into the microphone. Picking a good restaurant location to sit is pretty helpful - I’ve had the best results in a far corner of a restaurant with the wife sitting against a wall and me facing towards her with my back to the rest of the restaurant or sitting next to her in a booth setting with us both facing towards the main part of the restaurant and the remote mic between us propped up and pointing up towards our mouths. Not spilling food on an expensive mic is a consideration. One advantage of the ReSound system is that it’s quite a bit cheaper than the Roger Pen (although the Roger Pen is supposed to be the best there is). I think that I got my Multi Mic by special order at a Costco Hearing Center for $206. But again, it only works with a ReSound HA, AFAIK.
I think MDB’s description hits the nail on the head. It is helpful when using such a remote mic to have an occlusive fitting and to turn down your external on-the-HA mics quite a bit relative to the remote mic. The best combination, although incredibly dorky, is to wear over-the-ear noise-cancelling headphones over your HA’s while using the remote mic - OK as a passenger in a car, not so cool when dining out in a restaurant although with the surge in “hearables” popularity with the young 'uns, no telling where we’re heading there. Just the other day, I was watching a YouTube video of Colin Cowherd interviewing Urban Meyer and Meyer was wearing Apple Air Pods during the whole interview with a perfectly straight face - so stuff hanging out of your ears, on your ears, these days must be cool (a quaint '60’s expression, no doubt!).
BTW, I haven’t abandoned the forum. With all the busyness of the holiday season, I’m struggling to finish an online course for which I paid $100 that has a 12/31/19 deadline, after which it goes away forever (Microsoft is cancelling its edX.org MPP course tracks and offering only free Azure-related online courses on its own sites). Still have 2 course sections to go and only 3 weeks left. Happy New Year!
P.S. I actually think the input from the Multi Mic sounds better than the sound as picked up by my external HA mics - maybe that’s because my mics are nestled behind my ears half-hidden by hair, etc. This decided improvement in listening quality is most noticeable, ironically, in using the Multi Mic in a quiet situation, but from reading Dillon’s Hearing Aids book, 2nd ed., the quality of perceived sound goes down with increasing distance from the source just because the relative volume of direct sound as compared to reverberations (with possible time delays) is decreasing with increasing distance from the source - so having a Multi Mic nearer the source or holding it a couple feet nearer the source might be a good part of the improved sound equation, perhaps it’s just more signal to noise ratio, even in very quiet situations, too, from mic directionality. But none of us wants to run around always shoving a mic towards someone or always holding it out towards them.
Hot Springs Village, Arkansas
