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Phonak M90: Environmental sounds too loud during phone calls

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I’ve had these aids for about a year and I have always struggled with the environmental mics being VERY loud while on calls. They actually get louder, significantly louder while on calls. It’s to the point that I can’t hear the person talking on the call if there is any outside noise. Literally the only way I can take calls is if I’m in my closet with the door shut. I have complained and complained to my audiologists time and time again and he haven’t been able to figure it out, and honestly isn’t very interested in resolving the issue. From
What I was able to see, he has the calls+mics sent to lower in the software, but they do the exact opposite. In addition to this if I try to adjust the sound, with either the buttons on the aids or via the switch in the phone, the “cha-ching” sound it makes at each level of volume is CRAZY loud (this is only super loud during calls), and all it really does it decrease or I increase the caller volume, not the environmental volume. I’m at the point where I’m going to need to program them myself. Anyone else have this issue, or have any suggestions? Anyone know where to adjust this in the software?

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I think the underlying issue you are trying to deal with is that the Marvel system is to use the hearing aid microphones for transmitting your voice to the caller at the other end of the line. The microphones on the hearing aids have trouble distinguishing between your voice and background noise, and can’t really be turned down, and still let the caller at the other end hear you. With hearing aids that stream phone calls with the system, the speaker on the iPhone is used to transmit your voice. This allows the hearing aid to attenuate the signal from the hearing aid microphones to reduce background noise, so you can hear the caller. On the other hand the advantage of the Marvel system is that it is truly hands free, where the MFi and iPhone solution is not. You have to hold the phone up to your mouth.

Perhaps users of the Marvels can help you with tricks they have found that work. I have read in other posts that the hearing aid position on the ear can be adjusted to help.

In Target, Fitting, Fine Tuning and Phone call + mic you have a Hearing aid microphone setting.
This can be used to adjust ambient sounds during calls.

Yabut… The adjustment also affects picking up your voice to transmit to the caller. The default setting is -6 . I’ve adjust mine for -3 dB, + 3 dB net change, to make sure the caller gets what I’m saying.

The OP is not yet a self-fitter, just considering it because of the background noise problem.

@chrluc said:

environmental mics being VERY loud while on calls

chrluc, in case it’s not yet clear: there are no “environmental” mics; there are just mics, which pick up both your voice and environmental sounds. On a related note(!), I’m mystified by the volume-change chimes being crazy loud during phone calls. Mine are at the same level in phone calls and not in phone calls. In the fitting software there’s only one place to adjust their loudness, with six choices ranging from “very soft” to “very loud.”

@brec said:

Yabut… The adjustment also affects picking up your voice to transmit to the caller. The default setting is -6 dB. I’ve adjust mine for -3 dB, + 3 dB net change, to make sure the caller gets what I’m saying.

I’m not absolutely sure but I believe this setting is based on 100%. You take from one while giving to the other.

After reading the OP’s initial thread again I am wondering if we are talking about what he is. If he is complaining about the sound he gets in his ears ambient/the callers voice then we are telling him wrong. That issue is done in Fitting, Fine Tuning, Phone Call Mic in Program Options. I think this is correct, increase the Sound Relax, Noise Block and Windblock. Mine are set at 8, 12 and 16. Make sure Bluetooth is in Fixed Bandwidth.
Let us know your thoughts.
My phone calls are really good. To me and my caller. In the house, outside in the typical wind and in a vehicle driving freeway speeds.

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I wanted to clarify a little more. The person on the other end has never complained about not being able to hear me, and their voice volume is at a normal and adequate level. The issue is I can’t hear their voice because it drowned out by all the other sounds.

For example, if I’m in the living room and I get a call, as soon as I answer the call, the TV volume in the living room becomes significantly louder, maybe as much as double. If there is anyone else in the living room and they say anything, their voice is MUCH louder (much louder than it typically is with hearing aids) so much so that those sounds drown out the voice of the person I’m talking to on the call. I understand that the Marvels work differently than other MFI hearing aids, but I have used other headphones like AirPods that use the onboard mics and not the mic in the phone to take calls, and they don’t crank up the volume while on calls. I don’t understand why these Marvels seem to need to do this.

I don’t have Marvels but have the Target software for them. This is what I see for customization options on streaming for phone calls. It is different than the Signia/Rexton. With those you suppress the mics by a selectable amount, with a default of 30%. Independently you can turn on volume adaptation which boost volume if the background noise is high. I see a -6 setting for the hearing aid microphones, but not sure exactly what it does. Perhaps -6 dB when you are NOT talking? If so, then perhaps it should be set for more than -6?

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There are also some Bluetooth options you can set, such as Fixed Bandwidth, or Adaptive Bandwidth. Does Adaptive mean it adjusts volume based on background noise? Perhaps, things to discuss with the fitter.

image

It doesn’t turn down the output to the caller. It turns down the ambient sounds to the wearer. The ambient sounds to the wearer can be turned down or off.

I’m not familiar with the buttons on the Marvel, but there may be a way to mute the ambient sounds during a call? That’s what I do on my previous Phonak model, on the Bluetooth device (Compilot 2). I can have full ambient sounds on a call or I can mute the sound so I only hear the caller.

In reply to @Raudrive

@Raudrive said:

I’m not absolutely sure but I believe this setting is based on 100%. You take from one while giving to the other.

Sorry, not understanding: what are one and the other? The control label (see @Sierra’s pic) says only, “Hearing aid microphone” with a default and minimum setting of -6 and a maximum setting of 0 dB.

@Don said:

It doesn’t turn down the output to the caller. It turns down the ambient sounds to the wearer. The ambient sounds to the wearer can be turned down or off.

The output to the caller and the ambient sounds are both sourced from the same mics. You’re saying the software is smart enough to separate signals from that single source and send different output via Bluetooth than to the receivers. Possible in theory, but how do we know this? Also, how can the ambient sounds to the wearer be turned off?

In reply to @Sierra

@Sierra said:

There are also some Bluetooth options you can set, such as Fixed Bandwidth, or Adaptive Bandwidth. Does Adaptive mean it adjusts volume based on background noise?

I’m pretty sure it doesn’t mean that. The tooltip says, “If enhanced sound quality is needed select ‘Adaptive bandwidth.’ Note: this may not be supported by all phones.” I’m inferring that it has something to do with Bluetooth per se, not the audio signal that is transmitted thereby.

In reply to @brec

@brec said:

The output to the caller and the ambient sounds are both sourced from the same mics. You’re saying the software is smart enough to separate signals from that single source and send different output via Bluetooth than to the receivers

It can separate the incoming signal into two channels, as they are going to two different devices.

I think I’m going to need to get a wireless programmer and dig around in the software to try and figure it out. I appreciate all the suggestions, and will start with those.

Edited

In reply to @Sierra

GOT AN EXPERIMENT!:

Let’s postulate: with P90s, answering or initiating a call with a tap assigns the ’s microphones to be the iPhone signal path. “What you hear is EXACTLY what they (the other side of your call) get.”

However IF you answer or initiate a call using the iPhone’s touchscreen, AND you select “iPhone” (as opposed to “R-Phonak”) as the receive mode on your telephone app, THEN the iPhone microphone will be selected [relax, you’ll still hear the call through your HAs!] What’s then transmitted will be the same as it is with any good ole iPhone: magnitudes better than calling with your HA’s mics in a noisy environment.

I’ve experimented with initiating/accepting calls by both methods only a little. “Early results” have me pretty convinced the postulate is correct.

Would be cool If others would try making/taking a few calls both ways:

(1) with a tap on the HAs and
(2) a tap on the iPhone screen

… and post if they agree or not.

@fbsx said:

AND YOU SELECT “iPhone” as the receive path (as opposed to Phonak) the iPhone microphone will be selected (relax, you’ll still hear the call through your HAs!) what’s transmitted will be the same as it is with any good ole iPhone: will sound an awful lot better to than when you are calling with your HA’s mics in a noisy environment.

This won’t work with Phonak Marvel / Paradise. I can’t get it to work using the iPhone Mic and I’ve been told it won’t work as well. You have it use the Mic as the Mic.

Yeah so that’s the difference between Bluetooth classic and , iOS has it fine tuned.

In reply to @Zebras

Yep - my wrong. :neutral_face:

Nevertheless, it would seem feasible for Phonak to write-in an update that discriminated between a tap-initiated-call and a screen-initiated-call and route the signal path accordingly.

I’ll keep on dreaming. ))

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