Oticon introduces Oticon More

@henry.macphillamy said:

I have also recently trialled the Phonak Paradises for a point of comparison.

Nice review. I’m curious to learn why you moved on from the Phonak Paradise?

The short answer is, yes, I’m taking the next two weeks to do some direct comparisons. I want to be very careful in posting these here however, as I’ve only had one ajustment to the More’s, and will probably have additional to try and get the most out of them. In terms of the levels that I’m comparing, I have absolutely no idea. Can you explain each of the levels and features, and I’ll hopefully be able to answer your question.

A vcouple of reasons, but let me begin by saying that I haven’t completely written the Paradises off, and do intend to do another trial with them once my trial with the More’s ends. First, as a long time Oticon user, I am concerned that even a slight departure in sound processing might put my safety at risk. I don’t want to put my faith in an algorithm that dictates when motion sensor is active and not, and therefore cutting out sounds in my environment that I need to hear. I need as natural a sound environment as possible so that I can orientate myself in real time, and hear that oncoming semi-trailer coming at speed towards me before I make the call to step off the curb, to take the best example I can think of in my situation.
Second, I’m concerned that incorporating all the bluetooth capabilities on to the Paradise itself might well drain the battery life more than the More’s, as you can use the connect clip while it is charging. It would be really useful to do a comparison, but I suspect that the Paradise wouldn’t be able to handle the amount of day to day streaming that I do on my phone, for work, etc, without some sort of booster charge. You could get around this by using a pair that isn’t rechargeable, but I am adamant that I want rechargeables for reasons I gave in an earlier post.
The big thing that the Paradise has in it’s favour is it’s bluetooth capabilities. It is so impressive and seamless that I may well go with them in the end, but I would first need to be 100% satisfied that I can actually hear sounds when I need to hear them before making the move across.
Finally, and it isn’t a big thing, because there are probably work arounds, but I think the Oticon app is much better to use from an accessibility perspective. I couldn’t use more than half of the features in the Phonak app due to lack of labeling of buttons for use with a screen reader, so was essentially locked out of boosting the sound for a restaurant setting. I can use 100% of the functionality of the Oticon app, and would definitely use the sound booster switch on a regular basis having the kind of lifestyle that I do. One of the many reasons I want to upgrade is also to take advantage of the remote care feature. This will be completely wasted on me if the app I rely on to use it is accessible.

As I say, early days, and I think they are both incredibly good aids that will serve users well, provided that they get a good fit and have abilility to change programs easily.

@henry.macphillamy said:

In terms of the levels that I’m comparing, I have absolutely no idea. Can you explain each of the levels and features, and I’ll hopefully be able to answer your question.

In the OPN set up, the OPN 1 is the level that has the fullest features, while the OPN 2 is crippled down a bit, but is cheaper than the OPN 1, and the OPN 3 has the most crippled down of features, but is the least expensive model of the 3. For example, the OPN 1 has max noise removal of 9 dB, while the OPN 2 max noise removal is only 5 dB, and the OPN 3 max noise removal is only 3 dB. So you get the least performance out of the OPN 3 and the most performance out of the OPN 1.

The Oticon More does not have a 1 to 1 feature correspondence when compared to the OPN, but by the same token, it is sold in 3 different levels, with the More 1 being the most full featured model at the highest cost, and the More 3 being the least full featured model at the lowest cost. Most of the feature configuratoin differences between the More 1, 2 and 3 are in the MoreSound Intelligence technology (which is the deep neural network stuff).

So when I was talking about direct A to B comparison between the OPN and the More, it’s only appropriate to compare the OPN 1 vs the More 1, the OPN 2 vs the More 2, and the OPN 3 vs the More 3. But it’s also OK to compare different levels of the OPN vs the More, for example, the OPN 1 vs the More 3, if that’s what you have, as long as it’s clearly specified up front so people don’t assume incorrectly that you’re comparing the OPN and the More at the same configuration level.

Larry - let us know your thoughts after you test Oticon More. And how it might compare to other aids your wearing or plan to test. Also did you request the “no vent” hard mold or did your Audi make that move? Personally I would of gone with a small vent size and if issues arose (feedback) I’d consider no vent as a second option. But maybe you’ve worn no vent molds in the past. Hope thing work out with new aid.

@larry.bohan said:

I can already
state that feedback suppression is remarkably
improved (hands over ears, f.ex.)

Thanks for sharing. The feedback suppression improvement you’re seeing is a new feedback prevention technology called OpenSound Optimizer already available on the OPN S, and now carried over to the More line and renamed the MoreSound Optimizer.

Looking forward to hear more of your impression of the More in the future, particularly in how well it does it noisy environments, especially on speech. Also, if you use the OPN Music program, how it compares to the OPN in the Music program as well.

I’ve gone >20 years without open vents.
(basically not possible with my losses).

I cannot say I enjoy much the plugged-up,
rubber-stopper-in-ear effects, but I am
resigned to it …

@henry.macphillamy

When you say 35% battery on more after 10h usage, do you mean 35% used or 35% left?

Lag for computer and connect clip could be of similar origin as on phonak’s tv connector and computer, after there is a pause of I think 60 seconds, tv connector stops streaming.
Maybe connect clip has the same bug? Or same bug with these aids.
Try to get the information from your fitter, if connect clip goes on standby and after how long period without sound.

Solution for tv connector for phonak was to use optical connection (even converting 3.5 to optical from the computer works), because when it’s connected directly with 3.5 jack, then tv connector relies on some arbitrary voltage, and if it is below that number, it assumes nothing is streaming anymore and goes into standby.
However with optical, as long as those ones are coming, tv connector stays connected.

So, check if there’s another way of connecting connetclip and dig around those issues.
Insist that your fitter calls oticon and find out the specs.

About phonak paradise, for regular BT, roughly 1h of streaming eats 10% of battery.
Tv connector and roger mic streaming eat three times less.

I wouldn’t recommend phonak rechargeables for anyone who wants more than 4h of bt streaming (phone, computer), 4h tv connector and 8h regular hearing. And that’s assuming not being for all of those 8 hours in the environments that require heavy processing (eg noise cancelling).
Especially don’t count that even if battery lasts you at thr beginning, it will stay so for next 4-5 years. It won’t, it will loose capacity.

I use size 13, and yes, I assume it would be exchange every 3-4 days if I’d use them the whole day. I use them for like 6-8h, 2h tv connector, 2 bt streaming, roughly said, and they last me 7 and 10 days on P and S receiver respectively. With less streaming they were at 10 and 14 days.

So, if you still consider phonak and rechargeables, definitely measure a lot and pay attention to your consumption.

Also, motion sensor for affecting sound can be turned off, or adjusted in terms of focus or size of the bubble around you, forgot which one.

But yeah, I definitely see how you wouldn’t like to hear less just because you stopped at the red light, and until you start walking again, you wouldn’t hear someone speaking to you.
I wore open domes when I tested it, and I didn’t even feel the difference, but with closed solutions and especially since your brain is especially attuned on sounds, you’re more likely to notice the difference and definitely be careful when testing it. Eg don’t do it alone.

Also, it’s entirely possible to put phonak aids in the wrong holes and then they won’t charge, because they have contacts only on one side. I looked at the charger and managed to put them in wrong, and then wondered why lights for charging didn’t turn on, my fitter noticed the wrong direction.

@Blacky When you say 35% battery on more after 10h usage, do you mean 35% used or 35% left?
I mean 35% left. I am going to revise my estimate using a few days though and give an avaerage as this was just one day of what I considered to be particular heavy usage.
I have possibly found a work around to the bug / problem I discussed earlier with the bluetooth cutting out when using the connect clip with my laptop, utilising a Sennheiser usb dongle. I erased all connections on my connect clip using the three button reset, turned my iPhone and apple watch off, and repaired the connect clip to the aids, and then the connect clip to the Sennheiser dongle. It is now working perectly, so I think it is an interference issue, and not a bug with the software.
In speech in noise, and bearing in mind that I am still in the very early stages of testing the More 1’s, my comfort levels in a very loud open-plan pub was better than using the OPN 1’s in the same environment. the thing I noticed most was the listening effort was less with speakers that were some distance away, aka sitting across from me on a large table, with lots of background noise behind, and music playing across it all. It sounded similar in terms of tone… I formed the initial impression that I was straining a lot less to follow the too and froe of conversation. It isn’t to say that it was easy, because it certainly was not, but better in subtle terms. I am finding myself playing around with the volume a lot in loud environments, just to see what the balllance between speech and background noise is like. It is definitely better… how muc by is still an open question for me at this point.
I also share @larry.bohan’s sentiments about feedback, or lack thereof. this has always been a big annoyance for me. I could reduce it somwhat by wearing bigger domes, but not a viable solution as this causes me considerable pain and discomfort. the domes I wear now are extremely comfortable, but they have meant that I have traditionally had to put up with a bit of feedback. the More 1’s have eliminated this issue for me almost entirely.
I would be interested in talking to people about hearing aid performance using domes versus custome moulds. I did try some a while back, but found them really uncomforable. I would be prepared to try again though if there are significant pros in moulds over using domes.

@henry.macphillamy said:

I would be interested in talking to people about hearing aid performance using domes versus custome moulds. I did try some a while back, but found them really uncomforable. I would be prepared to try again though if there are significant pros in moulds over using domes.

I would recommend you post your audiogram in your profile so we can tell what degree and type of hearing loss you have. That would help in the discussion of dome vs custom molds. I have the normal ski slope loss but pretty bad/steep high frequency hearing loss. I have the OPN 1 and initially I used the 85 dB receivers with single vent bass domes. I have a little bit of feedback issue on my right HA but only on the verge of feedback, and it seems to gets worse as the day goes on, noticeably when the disposable battery starts running low on juice.

Anyway, I paid extra to try out a pair of custom molds (hard clear acrylic type with a small but decent vent hole) on 105 dB receivers. The goal for this was not so much to try to control the feedback better by going to custom molds, but to see if I could eke out better amplification on the high frequencies by going to 105 dB receivers. It helps just a little bit with better amplification on the highs using 105 dB receivers, but it didn’t help a ton because it looks like my severe high frequency loss is already a goner, and I was already getting pretty significant improvement from the Speech Rescue frequency tranposition and composition technology even with the 85 dB receivers. So I opted to go back to the 85 dB receivers because the single vent bass dome feels more comfortable, but more importantly looks less conspicuous than the mold (yes, I’m a little vain to want to have a less conspicuous look).

So I retire my custom mold 105 dB receivers as spares, but to be honest, I don’t really find them uncomfortable personally at all, even though the soft single vent bass dome is more comfortable. Since my low frequency hearing loss is only mild, I don’t need custom molds to minimize the low frequency amplification leak anyway. The vent on the custom molds are helpful to minimize the occlusion issue for me.

Anyway, that’s why I was asking about your audiogram, because that can reveal a lot about whether custom molds would be helpful for you or not. For me, I thought they’d be helpful, but in the end, I’m able to get by with the 85 dB receivers and single vent bass dome set up just as effectively so this is what I’m sticking with for now.

Overall a good review though I’d like to know what’s Geoffrey’s hearing loss level is. Never heard of a charging case you can throw in a pocket and charge aids on the go? Thought you needed electrical outlet to do the job, so maybe comment is a inside joke? Maybe not.

Per review - Steve should be able to do a second review soon, one from the perspective of a person with severe to profound hearing loss. So looking forward to that review and hopefully find a date in the near future when the Oticon More comes out with disposable battery package.

This reviewer (Geoffrey Cooling) admitted that he only tested out the More in “relatively” noisy situations, but not in “very” noisy situations. He even said “who does nowadays?” Well… A LOT OF PEOPLE, in restaurants, bars, a busy cafeteria at work, a crowded place like in the hall of a theater where people are talking over each other waiting to get inside, etc.

Granted in these days of the covid situation, maybe there are no longer that many very noisy places to go to anymore (nor would you want to), but that was not the excuse he gave. His only excuse is “who does nowadays?” To me, it would be a glaring omission in a hearing aid review not to test it out in very noisy places. It would reduce the helpfulness of the review by a lot for simply having that glaring omission, considering that he calls himself a hearing aid blogger. But then given the covid situation, maybe that omission can be overlooked.

@mazda4me said:

Never heard of a charging case you can throw in a pocket and charge aids on the go?

R
Phonak’s combi case has a rechargeable battery that plugs into the base. I used one and got a week’s worth of charges on my Paradise aids while backpacking.

Jim

Agree and more so (testing) if the aid manufacturer claims the new aid (More) does improve speech understanding in all levels of background noise. I’ve always given a grain of salt to reviews that were made by people who sell hearing aids or work in the industry. Since the reviews can be some what biased to a particular hearing aid brand. But through multiple reviews (which are hard to find) we learn more and can can zero in on specifics like your comment on aid performance/speech in noise.