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Going from Oticon OPNS1 to More1 aids

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I got my More1s today. Moving up from OPN2. Much of the time after I got the new More1s I was without in my ears and around people — learning to skull in one of those tippy skinny Crew boats. So there I was struggling to hear while my new HAs were in the car. I didn’t want to dunk a brand new pair of HAs in the river. But the time I did wear them was very impressive and included a trip through the grocery store, some time in the car, and some time with my wife. My main impression is that the environment sounds are somehow “softer edged” and more natural. It’s almost like the environment sounds are actually softer, but I think it’s just that the quality of the sound is more natural and less hard edged. I wouldn’t have described my OPN2 as sounding “digital,” but in comparison the world sounds less digital now. I guess I can only notice the old OPNs were somewhat digital by comparison.
Music sounds incredible. That is just an amazing huge difference. Not just the detailed sound of the instruments and voices, but also the spatial experience. There is a different kind of depth. I think there is a bigger difference between the “normal” program and the music program than the old OPNs, but even the normal program now sounds better for music than the music program did on the old OPN2s.
While we were discussing how to set them up my Audi pulled down a menu and made a change, and it was instantly a better sound to my brain as we were talking at the time. I don’t remember the menu, but it was something like she changed it from “aggressive noise suppression” to “Spatial experience.” Or I might be completely misremembering. But in any case, there was a big difference and I like this one better.
In doing the setup she tweaked it while the voice from the speaker in front of me was discussing a carrot, She had that sentence repeat 3 or 4 times, and tweaked it each time, and it sounded better and better. She said the initial setup was just the , but she wanted to tweak it.
She reminded me there is a trial period, but she said I probably wouldn’t be bringing them back. “Nobody’s bringing these back.”

@ha11 said:

While we were discussing how to set them up my Audi pulled down a menu and made a change, and it was instantly a better sound to my brain as we were talking at the time. I don’t remember the menu, but it was something like she changed it from “aggressive noise suppression” to “Spatial experience.” Or I might be completely misremembering. But in any case, there was a big difference and I like this one better.

Glad to hear that the More 1 sounds much better than the OPN 2 for you.

Hm, the only thing in Genie 2 that has the word “spatial” in there is the Spatial Noise Management feature found in the Automatics menu. You basically turn it on or off. The explanation of what is does can be found in the screenshot below. It allows the ear with the better in noise to be focused more than the other ear.

As for Neural Noise Suppression, there’s nothing “spatial” about it as far as I know. It is the max value, so it should be set to the highest value the More 1 can support, because anything less than that will cripple your More 1 into the lower tier More 2 or 3. Because the More has the smart in there to judiciously apply only the appropriate amount of noise suppression depending on the amount of noise in the environment, it does not always apply the highest value set by you. But if/when it needs that highest value that you set, then it will have it available for use. Any lower value set there will limit its max capability and “downgrade” it to a lower tier’s lower max value.

image

Thanks for the suggestion of trying the Costco brand. The fitter at Costco was suppose to be very good and I know there won’t be a problem if I don’t like the way they sound.
The Audiologist who fit the last ones was much better than the 3 other Hearing Instrument Specialists that I saw in the past.
They couldn’t seem to get the hearing aids to not sound tinny compared to the Audiologist. He had much more advanced equipment.
I’ll probably need to pay for them then use them as a medical tax write off if I want to keep them. Thanks everyone again for all the info to help me.

I just saw this on Youtube, it’s from an australian audiologist regarding the Oticon More. People might find it interesting. I believe it’s not off topic, but she does talk about new client experiences compared with another leading brand - I assume is Phonak:

Edited

In reply to @Volusiano

@Volusiano said:

As for Neural Noise Suppression, there’s nothing “spatial” about it as far as I know. It is the max value, so it should be set to the highest value the More 1 can support, because anything less than that will cripple your More 1 into the lower tier More 2 or 3. Because the More has the smart in there to judiciously apply only the appropriate amount of noise suppression depending on the amount of noise in the environment, it does not always apply the highest value set by you. But if/when it needs that highest value that you set, then it will have it available for use. Any lower value set there will limit its max capability and “downgrade” it to a lower tier’s lower max value.

@Volusiano: Yes, as you’ve pointed out several times in the past, I find it incomprehensible and also somewhat disconcerting that Oticon would set the default values of More1s in a way that effectively cripples their performance capabilities.

It’s almost like the Oticon has built a “Fitters’ Competence Test” into the product: if you’re not smart enough to realize that the Tier1 product is effectively crippled without the intervention of the audiologist during the first fitting, you don’t get the unadulterated More1 product. I think it’s unethical that More1s are not set at their full capabilities, right out of the box.

This, IMO, is dishonest and reprehensible, as well as being something that significantly dampens my enthusiasm for the brand, notwithstanding the fact that I love my Oticon More1s, and wouldn’t contemplate wearing another make, at this point in time.

@volusiano That screenshot you show was not the one where she made the change. The screen she was on had a sort of purple thing with dots in the middle of the screen. The thing she changed was a pull down menu on the right side of the screen, not an on/off toggle. That’s all I can remember.

I did tell her I had read to set the noise management to the most aggressive, and she did, and later in the session she suggested there might be trade offs in doing that, which resulted in her clicking that pull down.

When I come back here I always wish I had paid more attention to her screens and take notes as well — but in the end I think she does an amazing job and knows what she is doing. I’ve always gotten great results with her from my first fitting three years ago or so.

My appointment was for July 9, but they called me on my cell while I was out doing other stuff offering an appointment yesterday afternoon, which I first declined and then scheduled at the last minute when it was still available. I had intended to read more here before I went, but as it was I went in a bit discombobulated. They were discombobulated as well. The tech had not charged the More1s before the appt, so they were not charged enough to set up. The Audi kept apologizing that I had to wait, but as her last appt of the day I think it also meant she had to stay later. I got her to print an for me, but I never got that, still in the printer I guess.

The thing I found with these this morning is that my phone was somehow messing with the sound, muting the a bit. Shutting the phone off changed the sound a lot even though the volume seemed to be set correctly. I couldn’t get the Oticon app to see these until I deleted and reinstalled that app. So it meant a bit of time this morning on both phone and iPad deleting and reinstalling the app as well as deleting/repairing with the new aids and restarting everything again. It’s good now.

As I type this the sound the the keyboard is clearer than I’ve ever heard it.

I sincerely convey to you my wish that your experience with Oticon More1s be as good as mine.

If you have a good audi, after a couple of tweaking sessions, these instruments will blow your doors off!

Everyone’s experiences are different, and when it comes down to it, it isn’t about what technology the aids have it is how well we hear. It boils down can the aids give us our lives back to a reasonable level. As a retired it professional I lived by technology when I was still working but retired I live by comfort and convenience to use. In my retirement I just want to do the stuff I never had time for while working. I am finding my More1 aids giving me just enough edge over the OPNS1 to improve my life. On the trails I can locate sounds easier than before. On the road while driving I can hear the sounds of my vehicle that I was taught by my dad to always listen for. At home my wife can be almost anywhere and I can hear her and for the most part understand what she is saying. I can now carry on a conversation with my neighbor across the street, it was impossible before the More aids. I am enjoying the music my wife always has playing on the Bose system and before it wasn’t really enjoyable. The More aids are giving me my life back to me.

Edited

In reply to @SpudGunner

@SpudGunner said:

It’s almost like the Oticon has built a “Fitters’ Competence Test” into the product: if you’re not smart enough to realize that the Tier1 product is effectively crippled without the intervention of the audiologist during the first fitting, you don’t get the unadulterated More1 product. I think it’s unethical that More1s are not set at their full capabilities, right out of the box.

This, IMO, is dishonest and reprehensible, as well as being something that significantly dampens my enthusiasm for the brand, notwithstanding the fact that I love my Oticon More1s, and wouldn’t contemplate wearing another make, at this point in time.

I would be very interested to see if any of the forum members here who are and dispense Oticon OPN/S/More to their patients may be curious enough to ask Oticon why they do what they do like that. There must be a reason but they’re not telling us the whole story.

Or perhaps one of the forum members here who are Oticon OPN/S/More users may be curious enough to ask their HCP to get an answer from Oticon on this issue.

I can see Oticon programming Genie 2 to set the default value to the max available for the appropriate tier model, but allowing the option to reduce the max value for neural noise suppression in case the user and their HCP consciously want to cap out the noise suppression for some reason. But to set the default of all 3 tiers to the lowest common denominator doesn’t make any sense. Or maybe the coder was just lazy and didn’t want to write any more elaborate codes to install this smart into Genie 2 so they just opted to set the default to the lowest common denominator to keep it simplest in terms of coding.

It is truly a test for the fitter to understand this intricacy enough to correct the short coming right off the bat. I’ve seen enough Oticon OPN/S/More users here who said that their fitters told them they don’t want to be too aggressive with the noise suppression so they want to leave it at default to start out with, as if they have no clue about the online help which clearly says that the setting is only the max setting and the is smart enough to apply only the appropriate amount noise reduction to the various level of noise detected and not more than necessary.

@Volusiano said:

It is truly a test for the fitter to understand this intricacy enough to correct the short coming right off the bat. I’ve seen enough Oticon OPN/S/More users here who said that their fitters told them they don’t want to be too aggressive with the noise suppression so they want to leave it at default to start out with, as if they have no clue about the online help which clearly says that the setting is only the max setting and the HA is smart enough to apply only the appropriate amount noise reduction to the various level of noise detected and not more than necessary.

Exactly! And - although I agree with your analyses most of the time - I think you’re being far too generous when you imply that there must be a good reason for this travesty. I concur that it’s an error, but one that I would call an error in judgement and not simply attributable to a coder’s laziness.

I think that a product development manager signed off on these rollout values without doing their due diligence. They read the tier cap values, but not the default settings.

Shame on them - this is a Hubble type error, IMO.

In reply to @ha11

@ha11 said:

@volusiano That screenshot you show was not the one where she made the change. The screen she was on had a sort of purple thing with dots in the middle of the screen. The thing she changed was a pull down menu on the right side of the screen, not an on/off toggle. That’s all I can remember.

If it was the screenshot with a lot of purple dots on them, then it’d be the screenshot below.

If the result of her change was a pull down menu on the right side of the screen, then it’s the Directionality Settings at the lower right corner because that’s the only pull down menu available on that screen. The Directionality Settings has the values 1) Neural Automatic, 2) Full Directional, 3) Fixed Omni.

Normally it’s set to Neural Automatic because this is the most versatile and automatic setting that lets the select the appropriate direction for you. To take full advantage of the stuff in the More, it should be set to Neural Automatic.

Full Direction means that makes the HAs focus on the sound in front by more aggressively blocking the sounds in the back and on the side. Fixed Omni means that the HAs opens up completely 360 degrees to let you hear everything around you always.

If her selection instantly made an improvement for you at the time of change as she was talking with you, I would guess that it was a change to Full Directional to help you hear her better from the front. If there was fan noise in her office then that would have been suppressed more on the sides and in the back in Full Directional mode. That would explain why you instantly liked it better. But it’s not necessarily a good all-around mode to have especially if you want to hear more sounds around you that’s consistent with the Oticon open paradigm. You’ll end up getting more of a front beam forming experience with you everywhere you go. If that’s what you prefer, that’d be fine, as long as you’re aware of what you may be missing out on. The equivalent of this setting can be done by you yourself in the ON app on an as-needed basis by selecting the MoreSound Booster option in that app. I myself would rather leave the Directionality Settings on Neural Automatic for an all-around experience, and elect the MoreSound Booster in the ON app myself when I want to focus in front. That way, I can turn it off when I don’t need to focus in front anymore.

image

@ha11 said:

I did tell her I had read to set the noise management to the most aggressive, and she did, and later in the session she suggested there might be trade offs in doing that, which resulted in her clicking that pull down.

If I were you, I’d press her on what exactly are those trade-offs she’s talking about in not setting the Neural Noise Suppression to the highest value possible to see if she really has a sensible answer for you or not. She might have misunderstood that the max value there makes the noise suppression too aggressive, more than necessary. But in reality, the Oticon online help says clearly that it’s only a max value and the HA will select the (lesser) appropriate level noise suppression for the right environment. Setting it to 10 does NOT mean that the HA always apply 10 dB of noise suppression no matter what. By setting it to a lower value like the default recommended value, your audi would essentially be crippling your More 1 into a More 2 or 3.

Below is a clip of the Oticon online help for Genie 2 that clearly states this:

image

MoreSoundBooster works just as you describe @Volusiano. It lets me home right in on a specific, localized sound source, but that kills the OpenSound concept.

(I wouldn’t want a steady diet of it, myself.)

Edited

I am someone that doesn’t want to or believe that it is safe to do my own adjustments to my aids. Unlike so many I do finally have trust in my Audiologist. I have come to understand that the adjustments of well fit hearing aids is only managed by great communication between me, the patient, and my Audiologist, and part of that is by an open line of communication by not only face to face but also email. My Audiologist likes my emails ahead of the appointment because it gives him time to do his research and even contact Oticon as needed while he isn’t wasting my time during the appointment because sometimes as he has said the call into Oticon can be long and even drawn out. While my arrangement is different than most and my aids are from the Veterans Administration, their mandate now is service for their patients. And I have to do a survey each time I am in for an appointment or even contacting the or being contacted. There is now that accountability that hasn’t always been there.
I also keep daily journal entries for not only personal things like hikes and trips etc. I also keep a journal of my hearth and even what I eat, a long with my hearing issues. I see the accountability also important on me too. As my Audiologist said wearing hearing aids that truly works takes the patient, the patient’s family and friends as well as the Audiologist. As the old saying goes it takes a village to raise a child, it also takes that same village to be successful in wearing hearing aids and hearing the best our hearing loss will allow.

Chuck,
I’m with you on all of this.
I’ve been on my More 1 now for 5 weeks after almost 5 years on the OPN1
Bob
US Army RVN 68’ - 69’

Yes, that makes a lot of sense since they’re all under the William Demant umbrella. So it’d be cost effective to share all the same accessory infrastructure.

I wonder if the Philips 9030 Lithium-ion battery is easily removeable like the Oticon More and OPN S are, too? Probably using the same kind of battery and are all interchangeable as well.

Yeah, that was the screen, and I guess I switched away from Neural Automatic. I’ll be going back for a follow up, so I’ll write a note to change it back.

She was talking to me directly in front of me, and that shift just clicked her voice into focus.

She suggested that the trade off in aggressive noise suppression would be less awareness of environmental sounds — birds, etc. I told her I do want to hear everything. I have I believe above average ability to sort signal from noise considering my hearing loss, and my lifestyle is not very much in the fray, so if there were a trade off, I’d pick the noise.

Hard to know what noise might be suppressed. I’d like to suppress vacuum cleaners and jet engines, but let the birds and some background conversations come through.

However, like almost all wearers, I do struggle in some contexts, like noisy restaurants. It’s been so long since I’ve been in a noisy restaurant I can hardly remember that, and hard to prioritize for it. I guess restaurant dining might be something that comes back into my life pretty soon, and I’ve got a couple of weddings coming up. Since we had some health issues in the household before the pandemic, I’ve been out of restaurants for about twice as long as everyone else.

With my OPN2 I am aware of a certain mode the HAs would go into where there was complex but quiet background sound. I’m aware of this because the HAs would sometimes crash during the transition, about the only time one of them would crash and reboot. So that kind of pointed out that it was a transition into a new mode when I step outside into a soundscape like that.

When I first got the OPN2s I found that in a soundscape like that (birds and crickets) voices became a bit distorted and digital sounding, and in my follow up appointment I told her that. She tweaked something regarding that kind of noise (“quiet complex”?) to make it less aggressive I think, and I liked it much better.

Edited
@ha11 said:

I’d like to suppress vacuum cleaners and jet engines, but let the birds and some background conversations come through.

FWIW, my own perception/opinion is that the resident on More’s Polaris platform actually recognizes and de-prioritizes those sounds, while detecting the speech signature and letting it rise to the top of the mix.

I wouldn’t say it attenuates the noises, as much as it rebalances the mix of incoming sounds. (Just my layman’s opinion.) The differential makes it easier (for me) to understand what is being said.

YMMV

I have found it refreshing how I can still hear the road noise and fan but my wife’s voice and the music on the entertainment system is pushed to the top in just the right level to be easily understood. And at home even with the TV on my wife’s voice will ride to the top so I hear it even with the TV going in the background. And the music and background noise no longer drains out the conversations on the TV.

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