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Please help me understand my initial fit of KS10

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@BeachBoy said:

This time it said it was open dome.

You need to tell Target what type acoustics you are wearing and vent size if earmolds. It’s important.

If I am looking at your graphs right, the actual gain is higher than Target and you might be getting feedback. Is this correct?

@Raudrive said:

You need to tell Target what type acoustics you are wearing and vent size if earmolds. It’s important.

If I am looking at your graphs right, the actual gain is higher than Target and you might be getting feedback. Is this correct?

I am not sure what kind of dome I am wearing, this is my first hearing aid, got it a month ago. I called costco, but the guy at front did not know it, and now I have to wait until Tuesday and ask my audiology tech at the appointment.

Can you tell me from this two pictures what kind of dome is it?

I do get some feedback, like a mild echo of speech. Can you please explain me in the plot what is target and what is actual gain. In fine tuning pdf file, is purple curve the target and red curve actual gain? What about the top blue curve exceeding 40 db? What curve is that? For less than 1k, why is red curve if it is actual gain lot less than target (if purple curve is the target)? Also what are the dark and light shaded regions red and blue in right and left ear curves? I have no idea and I need some help understanding this?

Thank you once again. BTW, is your beer ready to consume, or you just bottled it and now have to wait for several more weeks? I do remember the brewing process years ago. First I brewed in a big cylinder for weeks. Then bottled it and waited for more weeks before I drank it. My second batch got bad because I did not sterilize the bottles well enough.

Dome2.pdf (34.4 KB) Dome1.pdf (36.7 KB)

Thank you

@Raudrive said:

Put your cursor over any line to get the description.

Do some research, get some answers.

Good luck

Thank you. I am doing it now, searching internet.

BTW, would you please take a look at the attached dome pdf above and say which kind it is?

It’s a in your pictures.

What receivers are you using,they look like standard in your pictures, should be medium power.

If I were you, I’d go for a custom made mould with a small vent
(maybe like 1.0mm to 1.4mm)
Your loss is profound in the higher frequencys (95dB around 4Hz)

You want to try and get a really tight fit in your ear canal, so No leakage, this will lift the gain to where you’ll need it.

In reply to @tenkan

I am wearing medium receiver.

When I connect KS10 to Target 7.1, it gives me options for only cshell, slimtip, power dome, vented dome, open dome and cap dome. I do not see close dome.

So to refit, I need to choose one of the above, any idea? I wonder if is same as vented dome in Target 7.1.2 choice?

In reply to @Raudrive

Thanks for the suggestions. Hovering mouse over curves in target is indeed giving me a lot of information.

When I did google search for phonak 4.0, it does not show close dome.Phonak4.0Domes.pdf (54.2 KB)

Please see the attached. So I am lost again. The pdf of dome I had attached above does not look like any one of these.

I have appointment with Costco on Tuesday, and I want to ask her for a right dome for tighter seal.

Regards,

Bharat

In reply to @BeachBoy

@BeachBoy said:

So to refit, I need to choose one of the above, any idea? I wonder if closed dome is same as vented dome in Target 7.1.2 choice?

Ok yeah that’s it, it was called closed now they call vented for Marvel and Paradise.
Your Costco fitter will advise accordingly, but I still think you should ask about custom moulds, just ask them, cost is like only $50 or 60 each.

Good luck

I am going to ask for custom moulds. I have tried so many fits varying various parameters like ovetuning gain, varying sound recover 2 parameters, etc. but feedback is there. It is interesting that feedback is not always there, it depends on the person on TV and where he/she is talking. I get more feedback in news program than TV shows. By the way, I get feedback only when I use TV Connector, not if I listen to TV directly.

@BeachBoy said:

By the way, I get feedback only when I use TV Connector, not if I listen to TV directly.

That doesn’t sound right, something’s not set up correctly,I would think it should be the other way round, as in feedback when listening to tv directly.
But again this is easily adjusted in the software, you can attenuate the microphones, so only the streaming signal is available, so no possibility of feedback.

@tenkan said:

But again this is easily adjusted in the software, you can attenuate the microphones, so only the streaming signal is available, so no possibility of feedback.

I have been looking at Target 7.1 with my fit. I can disable microphone in speech+mic and music+mic, but those are bluetooth streaming. I can not fine anywhere TV Connector in program options to disable microphone.ProgramOptions.pdf (35.6 KB)

In the bottom, I can add program, but I can add only Tcoil, could not find anywhere to add TV Connector. By the way, only when I streaming from TV Conncector that it shows up in the app on Android.

Any idea how to disable microphone for TV connector?

@BeachBoy said:

Any idea how to disable microphone for TV connector?

Good question, actually I believe you can enable microphone or not for streaming from device options, so try that to begin with, the TV Connecter has its own profile so this should be no problem. You can do the same for AutoSense 4.0 streaming as well, but I’m not sure if that works for tv Connecter, try it and see.

.

PHONAK P90 STREAMING

Edited
@tenkan said:

I believe you can enable microphone or not for streaming from device options, so try that to begin with, the TV Connecter has its own profile so this should be no problem.

OK, I have done that. When I went to check how my TV Connector sound, and when I long press volume down button, I hear no beep, so can not tell whether microphone is muting or not. But when I long press volume up button, I hear beep and the program actually changes. In any case, I see no difference when I mute unmute microphone with long press of volume down button.

By the way, here is my latest fine tuning plot.FineTuning.pdf (86.3 KB)

So when the lightly shaded region exceeds the target curve, I am getting feedback, correct? I am still trying to understand these curves. Rick gave an excellent hint about hovering mouse over the curves, so at least I am moving in the right direction. Internet search brings up many technical papers about feedback, but nothing for a newbie like me.

It seems that you have activated the mute/unmute function (activated by pressing the volume key down for a long time).
You can check whether the microphones are deactivated or not: Scratch or touch the microphones before and after. You should be able to hear the difference.
Note: The microphones are not completely muted. You can still hear something.

If you still have that “feedback” when the mics are muted, it must be something else. As @tenkan mentioned, it “doesn’t sound right”. Especially if it only occurs when streaming with TV connector.

How is your TV connector connected to the TV?
By jack plug or optical Toslink?
If it’s by jack, have you tried changing the volume on the TV? Does this have an effect on the sound quality?

Edited
@sterei said:

How is your TV connector connected to the TV?

Sterei: I have at least got one issue resolved with your and tenkan’s help. I had already disabled microphone in the Automatic streaming program as suggested by tenkan. Although it appeared to be disabled only for bluetooth streaming of speech and music, in reality it was muting the microphone even with TV Connector on. Hence when I disabled it again in manual option per tenkan’s second suggestion it did not do anything. I checked that with your suggestion, passing my hand over microphone after long press of volume down button during TV Connector, and it was always disabled.

So I went back to program options and enabled microphone in automatic streaming, and then checked option in manual option with long press of volume down button during streaming and standard programs. With your test of checking, I can now feel the microphone on and off with long press of volume down (it still will not beep though).

Okay, so now with ability to check impact of microphone muting I still find no difference in feedback during TV Connector streaming. Note as I already mentioned before, this feedback occurs only in talk shows like MSNBC or news programs, not so much in movies and regular tv shows.

So like you and tenkan said, it may be not feedback after all but something else. It maybe more like an echo at the end of every word spoken. It may be due to Sound Recover 2 issue.

There is a setting in fine tuning to reduce echo/reverberation in Television and radio, please see.

image

The fix will reduce gain for TV and radio at low frequency. Do you think it is worth trying? Is that what you think is going on?

By the way, my TV connector is connected by RCA 3.5 mm stereo jack. I connect 3.5mm into TV connector and stereo L and R RCA plug into my yamaha receiver zone 2 out. Thus my wife can listen the tv from zone 1 and my hearing aids get zone 2 transmission from TV connector. I have muted zone 1 sound, and I still get the same feedback (or whatever that is echo/reverberation). I will next try to adjust volume on TV connector itself. Now, I am just using receiver zone 2 volume knob to adjust volume for hearing aid (zone 2 out is variable not fixed).

I think you first need to make sure that the signal the receive from the TV-Adaptor is not already distorted. The HA will never be able to restore a distorted signal. It may be that the (analog) signal is overtuning the TV adapter. This can lead to distortion. Hence my suggestion to try to turn the TV
output louder/quieter. To see its influence.
I had similar problems years ago when I had Oticon HA’s at the time. When their TV connector was connected via 3.5mm jack to the Zone2 output of my Yamaha receiver.
(Yes, I also have a Yamaha Receiver :blush:)
As in your case, the problem did not always occur. Depending even on which TV channel or TV program I was watching. I never got it working to my satisfaction.

The problem was solved when I connected the Oticon-TV adapter via Toslink.
With the (optical) Toslink connection, the TV adapter receives a signal that is already digital, so no possible loss, interference or overtuning.
Based on this experience, I have never tried to connect the Phonak TV adapter via analog 3.5mm jack.

Does your Yamaha receiver have an optical output?
Unfortunately, mine only has optical inputs, but no optical output. The Yamaha receiver is connected to a TV/Internet-receiver-box via HDMI. It has a optical output. I connect the Phonak TV adapter there.

@sterei said:

Does your Yamaha receiver have an optical output?

No, my Yamaha receiver does not have an optical out, but my sony bravia tv has. My current setup is: cable box to sony bravia tv, and tv to yamaha by hdmi (eARC). Then when I play cable, I get sound output to yamaha that my wife enjoys, and I get zone2 out directly to my hearing aid. I keep the balance of hearing aid at 50/50, i.e. 50% I get surround from yamaha reciver and 50% from hearing aid which gives me speech clarity. When there is no distortion, this is a great setup.

Unfortunately, in news program like MSNBC, I get distortion, so the analong output from zone2 to TV connector must be getting distrorted.

I took your advice. My cable box does not have optical out, but TV has. So I connected TV connector to Sony TV with toslink. I have to use digital out to PCM for hearing aid to get sound from TV connector. My wife can also get eARC surround sound from yamaha receiver. Unfortunately, this turns out to be a problem. The PCM sound to hearing aid, and eARC sound to yamaha are out of sync. So although the hearing aid sound does not get any distortion, the delay between yamaha and sony toslink is intolerable. I did not have these problem of sync when the zone2 was connected to my hearing aid and zone 1 to speakers.

I can of course turn off yamaha and get sound from sony speakers for my wife and hearing aid through toslink. Then there is no sync issue, and no distortion, but sony speakers are awful compared to my yamaha system for surround sound. Actually, even with the hearing aid, surround from yamaha with speech clarity from zone 2 without sync problem is great whenever there is no distortion.

So I am back to my original setup. When I upgrade my yamaha receiver, I will look for toslink out.

Thanks for your insight into this issue. Now I know that it is not the setting in Phonak Target software, so I will stop wasting time with that.

Good to know that it is not caused by the .
Maybe a lip sync delay can be entered on the Sony TV? But would have to be separate for Toslink. Probably takes longer to transfer to the Yamaha

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