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Untangling the Roger confusion

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Can anyone clarify the murky world of the new Roger programs and fitting? I was looking at buying Roger Paradise but now I am waiting to see what new aid I am issued by the health service. I’m confused about what aids come with any Roger stuff or whether all of them require you to buy Roger receivers then absorb them into the hearing aid somehow with a weird piece of kit - and unless I own the kit, no thanks! I’m getting a different answer each time I ask about whether I can just use my Roger kit with the newest aids without doing anything extra. And if the Paradise and/or Nova aids come with any Roger capability, is it 02 or 03? I often work in environments with wall to wall Roger aids so I need to be sure I have education capability.

Then there’s some confusion over the programming, as they seem to indicate you can only have one Roger program on these (Paradise and Nathos Nova) and that’s Roger with a microphone. On my current aids (Nathos S+, the NHS version of Spice aids) I have a Roger only (mics muted) and a Roger with mic and I can manually choose either program or exit into mic only modes. I am concerned that these are some kind of automated program along the lines of the evil Compilot which forces you into its program and holds you captive there.

And does “multi-function button” mean it has multiple functions or ther eare several functions to choose from at the audiology office but once I have chosen one I’m stuck with it? I need a program button and volume control.

I’m so confused with all this, I am used to just getting audioshoes and clicking my Roger onto the bottom of the aids, but this insidey stuff is all new and a bit difficult to follow.

6 people in this conversation17 min readJump to latest
@RoseRodent said:

can just use my Roger kit with the newest aids without doing anything extra. And if the Paradise and/or Nova aids come with any Roger capability, is it 02 or 03?

You would need to either get a Roger iN device or have Roger X receivers that can transfer the licenses.

The Roger iN contain 03 licenses.

Or you can do it this way with the little machine, ONLY if the Roger X receivers have a serial of 1744 or later, otherwise it won’t work.

image

If you don’t get a iN device or transfer the licenses from the Roger X. None of the Roger will work with the Aids.

Also you can’t use the Bluetooth on the Pen or Select with the Paradise / Nova Aids as it stops the Aids from working.

Edited
@RoseRodent said:

And does “multi-function button” mean it has multiple functions or ther eare several functions to choose from at the audiology office but once I have chosen one I’m stuck with it? I need a program button and volume control.

I’m not too sure of this. I like having separate program and volume controls on my Aids.

I don’t know if you can have 2 x Roger programs either. I personally only use 1 x Roger program.

EDIT - not sure if this is still a feature on the newer Aids but the reason I use 1 x Roger program is because on my Phonak Aids (V70 and B90), I can hold down the program button and it turns off the Microphones.

Hope that makes sense.

Maybe the Nova Aids can do that?

In reply to @Zebras

By Roger iN device you mean one of the microphones or are there hearing aid models which already have the receiver inside? Not that it would help much as it seems to be only 03 receivers.

@Zebras said:

The Roger iN contain 03 licenses.

Can 02 receivers be added to all of the new type of hearing aids? That’s assuming I can find an installer pad anyway, which so far I can’t. All the Roger stuff is dealt with by schools, unfortunately, so the adult audiology people know somewhere between nothing at all and “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing” so I need to understand everything myself. I’m in that difficult ground where lots of expensive Roger kit belongs to me but the aids belong to them and they can take them back whenever. If I have a fault, they don’t repair the aid I have, they switch it out for another and then send the broken one for repair and cleaning and it goes back round the system to be issued to someone else, so I need to be able to get my receivers out at any time.

Edited
@RoseRodent said:

By Roger iN device you mean one of the microphones or are there hearing aid models which already have the receiver inside? Not that it would help much as it seems to be only 03 receivers.

If you Google it, it’ll tell you. You can buy a Roger Pen iN, a Roger Select iN and a Roger On iN. Each of these contain two licenses of 03 type for 2 x Hearing Aids.

They are basically £1250.

I’m sure if you get the Nova from the NHS, they should have a Roger Installer to be able to sort out the Roger X with serial number of 1744 or later.

EDIT - If one of your Nova breaks, just bring your Roger X cubes with you when you get a new Nova and they should be able to transfer the licenses back to the Roger X and then back into a new Nova.

Edited
@Zebras said:

If you Google it, it’ll tell you

When I have Googled it, these are the questions I still have! I can’t readily understand what I have Googled. So here is what I think I understand:

  • Hearing aids come with capability or not to add the Roger inside it, but there isn’t any receiver actually inside it and that’s what they mean by RogerDirect
  • Roger iN things come with two, for want of a better description, virtual receivers which are Roger 03
  • Roger 02 receivers of the right type can only be added using the round tray device thingie

Do I have it figured out now?

@Zebras said:

I’m sure if you get the Nova from the NHS, they should have a Roger Installer

I’m guessing the service is variable by area, but I would put really hard folding money on no way José. They might have one in paediatric audiology but that’s somewhat moot as the departments are completely separate. They barely tolerate me wanting them to press the button that activates the audioshoe programs. I wasn’t allowed to swap my broken aid during the pandemic restrictions because they couldn’t verfiy using an expert which audioshoe I needed for the aids I have, even though I knew and was paying for them like I always do. If you really can’t find one person in the department who can match up a brand of aid with the shoe it fits, I’m pretty sure adding receivers is a step too far! Patients are not expected to come along wanting or knowing anything, you’re expected to get a test, get what you are given and leave with the default setting on everything.

I’m used to being told that Access to Work deals with all that, and AtW (correctly) tells me audiology deals with all that.

@RoseRodent said:

When I have Googled it, these are the questions I still have! I can’t readily understand what I have Googled. So here is what I think I understand:

  • Hearing aids come with capability or not to add the Roger inside it, but there isn’t any receiver actually inside it and that’s what they mean by RogerDirect
  • Roger iN things come with two, for want of a better description, virtual receivers which are Roger 03
  • Roger 02 receivers of the right type can only be added using the round tray device thingie

Do I have it figured out now?

All right. :slight_smile:

When I said Google, I meant to understand what a Roger iN device was. It would of showed you what type of the Mics they were. :slight_smile:

Sounds like your audiology are a bit of a nightmare.

I’ve personally never had an issue with my audiology but then I’ve never broken an Aid in all my life.

I much prefer 02 Roger receivers myself but it sounds like getting the Roger iN with 03 Roger’s would be easier for you because then you could transfer the licenses back to the iN device before you go to the hospital.

@Zebras said:

I much prefer 02 Roger receivers myself but it sounds like getting the Roger iN with 03 Roger’s would be easier for you because then you could transfer the licenses back to the iN device before you go to the hospital.

It does look a bit that way, but then again I often work in environments where you can’t move for accidentally going on someone else’s frequency, or you need to join a network so nobody needs to wear 5 transmitters. I used to walk past those wall panel things in the Deaf school and suddenly change to a Deaf Studies class when I am teaching music! I don’t think the Roger works quite the same way, but being able to create networks and subnets and stuff is a big part of what I do. It’s hugely infantilising to say only specially qualified people can do this, it’s literally moving a thing from outside your hearing aid to inside of it, there’s no health risk to that! Same with the trouble it took to update the firmware in my older devices - not a job for a specialist audiologist, it’s a job for anyone with a USB cable and basic IT skills. I can pay all the money but not usefully own my stuff. Sigh!

@RoseRodent said:

I often work in environments where you can’t move for accidentally going on someone else’s frequency, or you need to join a network so nobody needs to wear 5 transmitters.

You don’t need to worry about going onto other frequencies now. There’s no chance of that happening since the transmission is now digital. You have to actually pair the Roger receivers to the Roger Mic. Altho I’m not 100% of how you connect the Nova / Marvel / Paradise to the Roger Mics now.

In reply to @RoseRodent

@RoseRodent said:

Same with the trouble it took to update the firmware in my older devices - not a job for a specialist audiologist, it’s a job for anyone with a USB cable and basic IT skills. I can pay all the money but not usefully own my stuff. Sigh!

Do you have Roger equipment already or are you using older system?

There is the Phonak Roger Upgrader software, just wondering if that’s what you are talking about? The amount of people who don’t know about this software, is crazy!

I have a mountain of equipment going back decades, from a Connevans CRM220 body worn aid which never sees the light of day, a couple of Inspiro transmitters with the MLXs and MLXi and then I have a Roger Inspiro and the Roger pens and touchscreen mic (isn’t eBay great?). Roger upgrader is so easy, but it was not easy to procure the FM Successware and “Toaster” and be able to swap a Smartlink from US N band to EU H band and back. I don’t use most of the non-Roger stuff any more unless I am visiting a place with people who are embedded in the old system or if I need to be somewhere I am worried about dropping my aids in mud or water. I have a pair of stone age hearing aids with the MLXs on them and if they fall in a lake never to be seen again I will not shed too many tears.

@RoseRodent said:

a couple of Inspiro transmitters with the MLXs and MLXi

Do you know that the Dynamic Inspiro can be upgraded to Roger? The first version of Inspiro can’t be updated.

With the new Nova Aids, unfortunately you won’t be able to use any of the old set up.

NHS do offer the Oticon Engage which is (Bluetooth) that also has direct input shoes.

I think my Inspiros are too old for the upgrade, but I’ve got a Roger Inspiro too.

My area is Phonak only, so I’ll just have to wait and see what I get. If they still have some of the Auto ones in the cupboard I’ll get that, which frankly suits me in some ways because it’s an audioshoe situation like I’m used to. I hate the idea of auto things, though. I usually get them to program all the options in the autosense exactly the same (since auto isn’t a removable feature) then add programs I can manually select. I thought we’d be going forever forward with tech but I’ve looked up the latest ones and all the speech focus is about focusing on front of you. If people would stand in front of me, that’s useful, but they don’t! Am I really the only person on planet earth who sometimes wants to sit in a car, on a sofa, with children in the back seat… I currently have manual zoom for the direction I WANT not the direction the hearing aids think I want to hear.

@RoseRodent said:

since auto isn’t a removable feature

This is removable on the Nathos Auto and my Sky B90 and Sky V70.

It still shows as listed programs on Target but if you removed the A for automatic and select (-) then you can’t access it on the hearing aids.

I’m the same tho, I much prefer living in Speech in Noise program but select the Mic as ‘Real Ear Sound’ instead of UltraZoom.

I tried the Oticon Xceed from my hospital and couldn’t get on with it. The thing I did like about it, is you can listen to ocean sounds.

Edited

Wow that’s great to know! It took a lot of effort to kill off Soundflow so I didn’t really imagine that Auto would be vulnerable to any murder attempts!

I like to be in a default Omni with no shenanigans to remove any environmental sound. I don’t care if there’s someone talking on their phone in my vague vicinity, I don’t want everything else suppressed so they can annoy me more with their half a conversion while a bus sneaks up and hits me from behind. (Real example)

In reply to @RoseRodent

@RoseRodent said:

I think my Inspiros are too old for the upgrade

If at the bottom where you plug the cable in, it said 1 and 5V, then your Inspiro’s can be updated. Next to the 1, it says something but can’t think off hand what it is. If it says 750, then they can’t be updated.

Edited

In reply to @Psych1

@Psych1 said:

Sounds like you need the 02 receivers which will also work with 03 devices

Which leaves me back at the issue of how the heck to get them in and out of the hearing aids, unfortunately. All my stuff so far is privately purchased but I’m about to have some funded, which comes with the interference of “experts” without a full suite of expertise. I’ve been very confidently told that whether I need 02 or 03 receivers is down to which brand of hearing aid I have, which I already know to be wrong. Once I get the model details of the aids I have to tell them and they will do some “expertise” to that information and recommend me something via a pin in a map, presumably.

It is starting to sound easier to use 03 in the new system and just put the old hearing aids on when I need to use 02 but it’s a faff and they will refuse to program the old ones to my new (significantly worse) loss. Sigh!

If you really want to use the full range of Roger devices and avoid a lot of compatibility issues you really need to stick with Phonak hearing aids. You also need to either learn to program them yourself or find someone to work with who understands your needs and has the patience to work with you.

In reply to @RoseRodent

I have a Select iN. (Stupid name – have you ever tried googling for that?) It came with two 03 licences. I’ve heard that they can come with 02 licenses but I have no personal experience.

It is easy to get the licenses in and out of the hearing aids. It involves pressing a button on the bottom of the Select. The process is described in the Select iN manual. I assume the procedure would be the same with a Roger Pen iN.

On the other hand, if you have the X receivers that plug in to the bottom of hearing aids, or the bottom of a ComPilot, you appear to need the special transfer box. I think the receiver then stops working until you put the license back. (The Select iN continues to work when I take out the licenses.)

BTW, I very much doubt that there’s any receiver firmware being transferred. It will be there already. I paid around $500 (Australian) per side over the cost of the original Select for them to flip a bit in each hearing aid. IBM used this kind of trick with their mainframes: pay them a vast sum for an upgrade and the technician comes along, adds a wire between two terminal posts, and goes home.

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