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Jabra Enhance Pro RIE or M&RIE?

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This question is for my husband. He is considering buying the Jabra Enhance Pro from Costco. He originally went to a private audiologist who suggested the More 1 at $6700 for the pair. He did like it.

Then he went to Costco who suggested the Jabra ($1799.99) or the Philips Hearlink 9030. He tried the Jabra in the store and also liked it. He felt that he heard relatively equivalently between the More 1 and the Jabra but slightly preferred the Jabra (without considering price at all). The Philips unit they had was broken so he couldn’t trial it.

He spends a lot of time using his computer as well as his iPhone so the bluetooth capabilities are important to him. Also being able to better hear me (or another person) when we talk is also important to him.

Researching the Jabra I found this forum and found discussion of M& while some had RIE. He called Costco and found that they were using RIE with him because they indicated that he was not a good candidate for M&RIE based upon his test result. I attach a copy of his test result from Costco and the private evaluation.

Would appreciate any feedback on if RIE is best for him and if there are any other alternatives that might be better than the Jabra. To be clear, he is happy with the Jabra and ready to order it but want to make sure there are not other options he should pursue. While he liked the More 1, he didn’t prefer it to the Jabra (slightly preferred Jabra) and the cost difference is substantial.2021-07-01 Audiological Report_Redacted.pdf (1.8 MB) Costco 2021-08-06 Audiological Evaluation_Redacted.pdf (1.0 MB)

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So I am currently using the philips and am going to be trying the jabra in 2 weeks (the opposite happened to me - they had working philips not jabra on my visit)

As to sound - the philips, to me, sounded significantly better than the kirkland ks10. It sounded much fuller. I am hoping the jabra is as good as the philips in that.

However, as to the Bluetooth stuff - the jabra and philips are mfi (made for iphone) which is good and bad. Good - longer battery life and quick connection. Bad is that they will not connect to a pc or similar. I cannot use these with my computer which is very annoying. The ks10 has great Bluetooth capabilities and much shorter battery life. However, for me the sound for basic hearing was so much better with the philips that I couldn’t say yes to the ks10 - the first priority I have is definitely hearing. Everything else is bonus… My hearing isn’t as bad (I need to enter mine here - mild in right moderate in left) and I want to try the m&rie (which the costco manager insists doesn’t exist - long unrelated story :wink: and will be checking them out soon.

Edited

He is outside the fitting range for the M& receiver, particularly in the left ear. I’m lucky enough to be able to wear the M&RIE receiver, but initially tried the regular receiver and liked it as well.

I tried the More 1 earlier this week and liked the way it sounded too. To me both sound very natural. I too slightly prefer the sound of the Jabra, likely as a result of being a long time ReSound user. The Jabra is a rebranded ReSound One. While the More 1 is a nice aid, it wasn’t $4500+ nicer than my Jabras.

The receivers for the Jabra include the M&RIE receiver, and four power levels of regular receiver: LP, MP, HP and UP. I’d guess that he’d end up with either the MP or HP receiver and power domes or custom molds based on his hearing loss.

The Philips aid, while part of Demant like Oticon, is a slightly older aid and doesn’t use the same platform as the More.

Before I bought the Jabras I also tried the KS10, which is a Phonak aid. I found them very mechanical sounding, and focused on speech to the detriment of hearing other sounds around me. The Jabra and More both do a much better job of letting you hear sounds all around you, while still helping you hear speech “over the noise.”

@jay_man2 said:

He is outside the fitting range for the M&RIE receiver, particularly in the left ear. I’m lucky enough to be able to wear the M&RIE receiver, but initially tried the regular receiver and liked it as well.

I am personally interested here as to what the fitting range is. I am using the M& without issue, no feedback unless I completely plug my ear. Possibly I am not getting the best result?

I’ve never had good hearing so I don’t honestly know what the best of the best is, but these are quite comfortable (sound wise) to wear and have improved my speech recognition especially when it comes to accents. I am currently in a conference call with TW (I am in the US) and having no issues.

Edited

Remember there’s a mic in each ear so if you put a finger in your ear you are blocking that mic and will get feedback. I’ve experienced that too.

The fitting range for the M& receiver for the Jabra is the same as the ReSound One. See the ReSound One data sheet here:

https://cdn1-originals.webdamdb.com/13512_106872972?cache=1594258704&response-content-disposition=inline;filename%253D401361000GB-20.07-Rev.E-WEB.pdf&response-content-type=application/pdf&Policy=eyJTdGF0ZW1lbnQiOlt7IlJlc291cmNlIjoiaHR0cCo6Ly9jZG4xLW9yaWdpbmFscy53ZWJkYW1kYi5jb20vMTM1MTJfMTA2ODcyOTcyP2NhY2hlPTE1OTQyNTg3MDQmcmVzcG9uc2UtY29udGVudC1kaXNwb3NpdGlvbj1pbmxpbmU7ZmlsZW5hbWUlMjUzRDQwMTM2MTAwMEdCLTIwLjA3LVJldi5FLVdFQi5wZGYmcmVzcG9uc2UtY29udGVudC10eXBlPWFwcGxpY2F0aW9uL3BkZiIsIkNvbmRpdGlvbiI6eyJEYXRlTGVzc1RoYW4iOnsiQVdTOkVwb2NoVGltZSI6MjE0NzQxNDQwMH19fV19&Signature=RWf6ueuija9GJ0tG6S9-rCZVPRy6mIKio9aoM-D3pnxoPETnwVT4cotdAevm-NqmVlO8iEBC-vyKvWmNdzKCfios0q4AYC8NN-06aPz8Ek0u6Dtu~Csaa9KmezZj0n0PZMn3pPU9axjrz6u7TSHpjW9MVt9GKe1NTXJAfOCYFZm6J7cUuvWxzaRjeuKxKqsJ-7kUnRAwCiVUpaEQiM4COKsSiLwbtMQWn3OOVLRe6SLBzfuEQeWpXc4Tr4BqmPsnnFN9PF8ewX1FmhHKFcZpaBlRZI1gxE2F5mzQcoB7Sbc1ntwvlERkb6AInotpg~K38upw7O-NDl2Rh6vLAZ4g1Q__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAI2ASI2IOLRFF2RHA

So this is interesting. You indicate (as did Costco) he is outside the range for the M&. From looking at the bottom graph it looks like his right ear is in that range. Is that correct?

The left ear appears to be below the range for 4000 and 8000. I can clearly see that. However, he was told that no hearing aid will help him at those high frequencies on his left ear. He has not been able to hear those frequencies for many years and doesn’t expect to hear them with any hearing aid.

I know nothing about hearing aids. But, if no hearing aid will help him at those high frequencies in his left year would it make sense to try the M&RIE for those frequencies where a hearing aid will help?

I realize Costco has a 180 return policy. However, they said that while he could return twice he could not get a new hearing aid on the second return. That is, he could try a hearing aid and if it didn’t work well, return it in 180 days and get something else. However, if the something else also didn’t work well, he could return it but could not get something else. (I don’t know if this is a lifetime ban or what, but would hate to lose the option to buy at Costco). So do want to be careful so that it is unlikely to need to return.

Oh - they said he did not need a custom mold.

Looking at the fitting range of standard receivers it appears that he’s in the range of the MP or HP receivers.

The Jabra is a great aid with the standard receivers, and the marginal improvement in hearing quality of a M& receiver doesn’t warrant trying to force fit it into his loss.

If he’s already tried it and liked it better than Oticon More, it’s likely that he will continue to like it once he’s wearing the Jabra with standard receivers out in his usual listening environments. Remember, the More doesn’t have a mic in the ear option, only two mics on the back of each aid.

Check out the literature on the ReSound One, particularly the data sheet for the standard receivers. This info applies equally to the Jabra aids.

https://pro.resound.com/en-gb/products/support-materials/one-support174

In reply to @jay_man2

Regarding Phonak hearing aids, you say it sounds mechanical. But the thing is, you’re judging too fast. What I mean is, that Phonak has the sounds you need you just have to teach your brain to recognize sounds that are mostly muffled and the speech is more stressed to be clearer.
I when I first tried my hearing aids I have now, the sound was too artificial, I didn’t hear anything else. When I went to the street, then the adventure of discovering sounds slowly started. The sounds of gravel, the sounds of children in the park shouting, a car going on the road, etc. I began to realize more and more what that sound was and over time the sound ceased to be artificial as my brain began to recognize new sounds in the background.
I’m not saying Oticon isn’t bad, he has his own working principle. each manufacturer has its own working principle that makes it different.

I wore Phonak Brio aids for a couple of years a few years ago, and know about having to get used to aids. But I stand by my statement. The More 1 and the ReSound One/Jabra aids sound natural and open to me. The KS10 sounded mechanical and closed in. It focuses on speech to the overall detriment of surrounding sounds, whereas the More and Jabra enhance speech while letting you hear more, no pun intended, of the sounds around you.

In reply to @koshanda

Reading the various experiences that individuals have had with the Costco models I’ve been considering (upgrading from KS9s to Jabras or KS10s), it seems to me that one individual’s subjective response to the “sound” of a given model may not match at all with some other person’s response. Some people perceive a benefit from M&; I did not, even though I thought the premise made great sense. Some people prefer the more “open” sound field; it hasn’t mattered much to me, to the extent that I noticed it at all. The Jabras sounded relatively shrill to me on initial fitting, but after adjustments the overall difference was small. The Jabra’s battery life was a plus, but for my typical use case might not matter in practice. I do prefer the KS9/KS10 Bluetooth, both for my perception of the fullness of sound (which adjustment could not correct for the Jabras) and the ability to connect to my laptop, which is important to me.

So my advice is to read about the philosophies and features of models of interest, see if your husband can arrange back to back demos, and keep an open mind. It’s a very personal experience.

Edited
@garyh said:

So my advice is to read about the philosophies and features of models of interest, see if your husband can arrange back to back demos, and keep an open mind. It’s a very personal experience

I find it interesting and encouraging that @garyh uses the word “philosophy” in discussing selection of hearing instruments.

I don’t know where to find design philosophy statements for makers other than Oticon, however the AudiologyToday site has a couple of webinars in which Dr Donald Schum (Oticon VP of Audiology) explains how Oticon’s approach has evolved over time.

I can “hear” what he’s talking about when I wear my More1s, and the understanding of what’s going on with my devices reinforces my belief that my audiologist recommended the right for me.

I think I was trying to respond to the comments about the ReSound devices sounding “natural and open”, and I remember reading this in one of the ReSound white papers about All Access Directionality:

"Since its beginnings, ReSound has been inspired
by nature in developing hearing solutions, as embodied in
our Organic Hearing philosophy. For more than a decade,
ReSound has pursued a unique evidence-based,
strategy for applying directional microphone technology in
hearing aids. The term “binaural” means that this strategy
acknowledges that the sophisticated processing carried
out by the brain based on the sound delivered by a person’s two ears cannot be duplicated or replaced. Therefore, the ReSound strategy seeks to support and leverage the
brain’s binaural hearing ability.
tinyurl.com/pmmd94mp12

Edited
@garyh said:

For more than a decade, ReSound has pursued a unique evidence-based, binaural strategy for applying directional microphone technology in hearing aids.

Thanks for sharing that quote. It offers incontrovertible evidence of the real difference between Resound’s and Oticon’s design philosophies.

Here’s what Dr Donald Schum, Oticon’s VP of Audiology, has to say about Oticon’s approach, versus beam-forming:

“Other manufacturers, like I say, believe that they need to re to pre focus the sound that the person has access to, because they don’t believe in the capacity of the cognitive system to take in all the information. And so they create a very focused sound picture using beamforming. We don’t believe that that’s the way to do it. We believe that if you can do things effectively, you can provide a much broader picture of the sound environment. And with open and open sound navigator we took that first major step in that direction by being able to preserve all the major voices in the environment. So that person did not have to feel cut off and that they can have a natural reaction to all the different sources of speech in the environment.”>

While the implementation may be different, ReSound and Oticon both seem to have similar ends - allowing users to hear everything around them.

As.a long time ReSound wearer I’ve seen and heard the evolution of the technology and approach from Surround Sound to the Organic Brain Hearing philosophy, with M& receivers and All Access Directionality the next step in that development.

Yes, @jay_man2, I believe you. If that’s the case, it’s a big WIN for all of us who are , because I believe that an organic/holistic approach to sound processing is what the brain wants and needs.

With all these things, the marketing department always seems to have quite a bit of leverage before a product goes out the door. I remember as a kid always wondering how Tide could get your clothes “whiter than white!” I can hear the PR guy in some company telling the tech guys, “That’s very good, you know, but we need to make it sound totally COOL!” It’s too bad one just can’t put on a set of headphones fitted for one’s hearing loss and hear what the processed sound of a particular brand of hearing aids would sound like in your ears for your own individual hearing preferences and then like Widex (or a trip to the optometrist) have A/B fitting choices: “Do you like the way this sounds better or this?” and in an in-clinic or in-store trial in some sort of 3D sound field run the firmware/programs through their paces, much the way you take a car out for a test drive. Right now most of us are limited to trialing just one or two HA brands and can’t play the field, so to speak. In buying a car, you can go to any dealer you want and take ~vehicle you want out for a test spin (well, maybe not a Mazeratti).

I will follow the replies to this thread with interest, as I am on my third day with the Jabra Enhance Pro. Like your husband, I was also told that I was not candidate for the M&.
This is my first pair of hearing aids. The fitter felt the Jabra would offer better speech recognition than the Kirkland KS 10. We’ll see. I also went to a professional audiologist at UTSW first, and my are similar, but the speech recognition differ greatly, with the UTSW audiologist saying I had “good” word recognition, while the Costco fitter said I only got 42% of my words correct during the test. Kinda scratching my head about this, since real world experience tells me I struggle with voices, especially female and children. Just as an aside, the Costco fitter must be fairly new, as the card she gave me was another’s, with the name crossed out. I may ask to see the more experienced person next time I go in about 2 weeks. So far, I assume I am having the usual experience of a first time user, with all the new sounds I wasn’t hearing before, although some times those are mechanical sounding as is my own voice on occasion.
Anyway, as I said, looking forward to more replies on this. Glad I found this forum.

One thing to ask your fitter about as a first-time user is whether the fitting settings have been adjusted with “accommodation.” OEM’s are not only concerned with having their customers hear well but also avoiding returns. So typically for someone who’s never worn HA’s, many fitters don’t crank up the amplification right away to the full degree needed to accommodate your hearing loss and they may use a “milder” fitting algorithm or version of it. The lesser degree of amplification can be programmed to slowly fade out over a period of weeks. The default fitting setting in ReSound’s fitting software, unless your decides to override it, is something like “First-Time User.” I asked my audi to nix any accomodation and when I discovered she had me set as First-Time User, I switched to Experienced Non-Linear, which ReSound materials on Audiology Online say is the best hearing profile if you’re ready to deal with the full amplification designed to fit your loss. I also like the generic fitting algorithm better than ReSound’s proprietary + fitting algorithm. Might be wrong, but I believe NAL-NL2 amplifies the soft sounds a bit more than Audiogram+ but does not allow loud sounds to be as loud as Audiogram+ for normal speech listening environments. But I’d check with your fitter. If they’re not conversant with accommodation, First-Time User, and fitting algorithms available for your HA, indeed it might be time to politely ask if you could go with a more experienced fitter.

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