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Oticon More flutter at higher frequencies

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Edited

Thank you for the correction. As a wearer of hearing aids for over 49 years I do know the difference between flutter and the high squeal of feedback and I was referring to to flutter

Edited

In reply to @Volusiano

@Volusiano said:

For the Oticon OPN S and the More, there’s another effect due to the feedback prevention technology (called the Optimizer) that Oticon employs which is the insertion of the STMs as I mentioned earlier in this thread to break up any potential onset of feedback. This can be heard by some folks and may be interpreted as fluttering as well. But this fluttering is considered the lesser evil between itself and the feedback, and it’s not always heard by everyone all the times, so Oticon deems it an acceptable side effect/trade-off for feedback prevention.

@volusiano, and @hass5744 yes the STM’s are the villian, and to correct it in the More’s they added a setting in Genie 2 under Automatics. See screenshot:

image

BTW, I have had issues with the More’s, and decided while waiing for repair or exchange, to dust off my OPN S’s.
I created a new client, and using the new fitting assistant in Genie 2 was able to get very useable outcome with zero flutter!
My take away is it was a combination of as @hass5744 mentioned ie: feedback, and the spectro-temporal modulation @Volusiano alluded to.

Resurrecting my op to give anyone who cares an update.
Went to my Audi appt. this AM.
New adi (she’s actually a trainee,eek).
My suspicions were confirmed:
The More with f/w 1.1.1 will not communicate with Genie 2020.1 @Volusiano may be interested to know.
The Audi chief came in, and we phoned Oticon support, where I got my hands slapped for DIYing my aids.
They recommended sending them in for a f/w downgrade. Like seriously?

The VA will NOT upgrade the Genie 2 software until it has bee vetted by IT. @cvkemp, i have no idea how your guy is going to circumvent the system, because I got a flat out NO.
I asked if I could bring in my laptop with Genie 2 2021.2, and, as expected was told no way.
No joy today at the VA.
The chief is going to put in an order for me to be seen at a Community Care Provider who will of course have the latest software.
I feel that’s my best bet, because at least I’ll be working with an authorized Oticon vendor.
The ongoing issues with the More’s are a bit disheartening, and of course, I have to accept the blame for upgrading with the knowledge they probably would not work with VA’s software.
If the Comm. Care Provider can’t resolve my issues, I guess I’ll have to trial Starkey or Signia.
As @SpudGunner mentioned in another thread, the new MyMusic program is nowhere near as good as the original, so if you do upgrade your Mores, be advised you cannot get the old Music program back, and you’ll have to create one.
I’ll keep you posted when I have new info.

In reply to @flashb1024

Thanks for the update, @flashb1024. So I guess to capture my understanding of the MyMusic program, you had an initial favorable impression of it (even a wow moment for you if I recall correctly), but then upon further listening, you now don’t like it? Can you go into details on what you find you don’t like later on?

@SpudGunner gave us very detailed explanations of what he doesn’t like about the MyMusic program, even though he had an initial positive impression of it as well at first listen. But I don’t recall if you did elaborate on your dislike or not.

You guys all should probably communicate with your to ask them to tell Oticon Support that you want the original Music program back, but there should be no reason that they have to be mutually exclusive. Both the original Music program and the new MyMusic program can easily co-exist in my opinion.

In reply to @flashb1024

My Audiologist is the director of the Audiologist clinic and also the only IT this small clinic has. But I haven’t gotten an answer on getting my aids updated, and I was also told that the issue I am having with the right aid unmuting and then having to be restarted to get them back in sync is new to them at Oticon. The suggestion was to refresh the firmware and then pair them to each other again. The other suggestion was to return them for repair or replace me, I told my audiologist that it would take the whole military forces to take them away from me even for a day.

In reply to @Raudrive

@Raudrive said:

Enjoyed this post.
Thanks and good luck with getting the VA up to speed.

Thanks Rick, as the saying goes "I gotta just keep on keepin’ on.

@Volusiano said:

So I guess to capture my understanding of the MyMusic program, you had an initial favorable impression of it (even a wow moment for you if I recall correctly), but then upon further listening, you now don’t like it? Can you go into details on what you find you don’t like later on?

Yes, V, the 1st impression was a streaming session through my ConnectClip, which really seems to be the focus of MyMusic, because listening to most muusic on my Def Tech Speakers the mids are definitely compressed, and not at all what Oticon is trying to sell.
I have had very similar results to Jim’s, but I don’t play an instrument, so I can’t be as concise about live in studio sound, although, at a community center I am a member of, there is a grand piano which is played by a pro, and it sounds as though it’s lacking in dynamic range, especially in the mids.
Oticon claims they “Warmed Up the sound”, but it seems they took away all the presence in doing so.

@Volusiano said:

Both the original Music program and the new MyMusic program can easily co-exist in my opinion.

Very good point, and if after I’ve had adjustments made by the Comm Care provider, I may pursue that avenue, if they can’t improve the MyMusic experience.
It may be in my best interest to just have a custom music program created, and not use Oticon’s.

@cvkemp said:

My Audiologist is the director of the Audiologist clinic and also the only IT this small clinic has.

According to the the chief at Long Beach, corporate IT must approve the software, but if your guy can sneak it in, good on him.

@cvkemp said:

The suggestion was to refresh the firmware and then pair them to each other again.

Probably upgrade to 1.1.1.

@cvkemp said:

, I told my audiologist that it would take the whole military forces to take them away from me even for a day.

You’ve had so much success, I can relate!

Edited
@flashb1024 said:

at a community center I am a member of, there is a grand piano which is played by a pro, and it sounds as though it’s lacking in dynamic range, especially in the mids.
Oticon claims they “Warmed Up the sound”, but it seems they took away all the presence in doing so.

IMO, this is a concise description of one of the central failings of Oticon’s new MyMusic Program. “Presence” is really not the important term here: “dynamics or dynamic range” is really what the MyMusic program washes out of the sound …

@SpudGunner said:

“ Presence ” is really not the important term here: “ dynamics or dynamic range ” is really what the MyMusic program washes out of the sound …

I always relate presence to dynamic range, because “just like love and marriage, You can’t have one without the other”

Sure, @flashb1024, and that’s legitimate. It’s a vague term nowadays because the term is ubiquitous in guitar amp knobs and effects.

FWIW, I clearly understand your use of the term in the post. I only piped up to clarify it for those who equate the term “presence” with “high midrange”.

Not meant to split hairs, :zap: Flash :zap:

Just thought I’d give an update.
I created a manual music program this afternoon, and so far it is much better than MyMusic.
I started with a General program using NAL NL-1 , and turning off settings in Automatics, as well as tweaking More Sound Intelligence to disable NNS, setting Virtual outer ear to aware, and directionality setting to fixed omni.
Actually that last setting disabled NNS automatically.
I ran In-Situ Audiometry, as well.
Listened to a few tunes, and was quite happy, but streaming music still sounds better with MyMusic.

I’ll be testing it for the next few days to see if it’s a keeper.

Thanks for sharing this, @flashb1024. I remember before that the original Music program always had NNS disabled, and the Directionality Settings set to Fixed Omni. So you what you did seems very consistent with how it was set up. Of course the NAL NL-1 is a new touch, but hey, if you like it better, there’s nothing wrong with that. Generally, I’ve also found NAL-NL1 to give me a bit sharper edge on the highs.

@Volusiano said:

Generally, I’ve also found NAL-NL1 to give me a bit sharper edge on the highs.

After some listening last night, and this morning I concur, way too sharp for me.
Sounded like a 1970’s transistor radio when streaming.
I set it back to VAC+, and just adjusted the sound controls & gains a bit. Set NNS settings same as b4.

Unfortunately, Oticon took away the ability to adjust Compression, which makes the creation of a music program an exercise in futility.

As you said previously, we need them to add back the original Music program.

Diid a little tweaking to MyMusic, too, we’ll see.

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