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11 BIG LIES of THE INDUSTRY

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In reply to @gorgeguy

@gorgeguy said:

So you have worn hearing aids for 10 years and have been to “multiple” audiologists and now you are an “expert” on industry practices???

Incorrect. I never claimed to be an “expert” on industry practices. The 11 BIG Lies of The Industry is from my experience with hearing aid providers and its 100% accurate.

The title itself suggests that every item you list is a standard answer (lie told) across the entire industry. That’s literally the definition of a generalization. That aside, they are clearly things and answers you have experienced from audiologists, so of course it is true, but it doesn’t make it an industry standard. I’m not here to be combative, as I’m sure many of these answers are not uncommon to hear, but it’s also a bit of an attack on those audiologists that do provide ethical and gold standard practices to their patients and clients. Like any industry, an end user should take time to self-research and learn about what they’re purchasing, particularly something that will have a large effect on their daily lives. And it’s good to be weary of answers and things said that try to push us towards a purchase point rather than truly help us maximize our hearing.

I am new to the world of audiologists, hearing instrument specialists and hearing aids. Over the past 6 months, I have seen 2 different audiologists and a hearing instrument specialist. Based on your “Lie #1,” I would dispute it already based off the only 2 audiologists I have seen. Now, neither of them will program a hearing aid not bought directly from them, but because they choose to make it their practice in their particular offices, and it seems that is pretty common. But they have both told me that you can find an audiologists that will program hearing aids bought independently, though it is indeed harder to find that service alone sometimes. So I’m not sure I would call that an industry standard lie when I’m 0/2 in receiving that answer.

I’ve only asked one audiologist about self programing, and while he didn’t outright encourage me to do so, he didn’t say that I shouldn’t either. He understands that I am somewhat tech savvy, and has taken the time to actually show me the software side on his screen when he programs my aids for me, explaining what each adjustment is technically doing to noise input and how that affects what I end up hearing through the aid. At no point did he suggest that I would further damage my ears should I decide to try and learn how to make changes on my own. Again, I don’t dispute that you have been incorrectly told that, but you position these statements as things that everyone will tell you, when it’s already been the opposite in my short experience for just the first 2 things listed. So to label it as an “Industry lie” is a bit aggressive.

I do still think this is an informative post, perhaps just worded a bit too strongly. These are things I think are good for people to be on the lookout for or to have some basic knowledge about, to ensure they are using audiologists that have their patients’ best interests in mind, not just a monetary sale!

In reply to @kthejoker20

Wasn’t sure about your post based on my reading it if you were saying it would void warranty in US or UK. I am in the US and my HAS not only knows I do my own adjustments but we talk about new features and such. No warranty issues at all. Plus - given how the laws stand, I can’t imagine making software changes could be proven to damage, and therefore void, any warranty…

I think what your are describing as your audiologist “looking the other way”. Which is great, but hard to find ones that will do that. I had a costco hearing aid i self programmed. They would not honor warranty when the receiver failed since i programmed. They said i blew the receiver.

lie 2 : Hearing aids, are class 2 medical devices as such, this should be escalated to the so they decide who or what hearing losses could be appropriate for DY programing. There is an issue of who is responsible liable in case something for example causes noise indice

Lie5: It requires some maintenance, you can buy something like the global dry and store / change to tubing / or a prof machine like thee ultra vac. You can probably buy it and do it yourself

Lie 7: Not a lie, some people trial extensive both levels, while it is true some people are very satisfied with lower tier level, often times better signal processing tends to be noticeable specially in complex listening environment

Lie6: its not a lie its bad business practice, they should tell customers upfront HOWEVER, if they perform for example , they need to use disposable tubes, time etc. They should be clear about costs… but it isn’t like is connect to the PC and recalculate target gains

finally Lie 1, each country has a different cost structure GIVEN the same instrument. This is due to
tariffs, competitive environment etc. I bet HI In Mexico are cheaper than in the US, prob a lot of people
cross the border to get fitted (this is a guess)

In reply to @kthejoker20

I would suggest arguing the point - I cannot imagine software programming for this can actually cause hardware damage. Even if they could it would only be the receiver which is fairly inexpensive.

And it’s not looking the other way at mine - as I said, we discuss what I’ve done and found.

The store may have wanted to look for an excuse, however they would have to prove that the changes you made damaged the given the warrant is not determined by the people working at the desk - it’s either the manufacturer or the costco credit card warranty after that if you purchased with that.

In reply to @hass5744

Then don’t post. No need to get into this one. He is right, the market is absolutely corrupt. Let it be, let people be informed. We need to push back on this industry.
I, for one, learned from his post that I can get software to reprogram my aids. A huge leap for me. More people need to know about this…

And that is what this forum is for. However the 11 big lies are over generalizations and in some cases just inaccurate. Yes, it is important for people to understand and be able to learn what they want but we also need people to know that a very good audi or HAS can be amazing for hearing loss for many people and just making people afraid to trust an audi is irresponsible.

janofh, well said. I have no problem with self programming and if the person is happy, great. The only question is how much happier would they be if it were done by “best practices”. Since I retired and don’t have my high end real ear equipment, I have programmed some hearing aids for friends without real ear. But I was doing it with 45+ years of experience behind me. The average “Joe” with a HiPro or Noah Link probably has no idea what they are doing…Granted, it may sound better after a slight adjustment, but is it as good as it could be? Many hearing care professional will help a patient even with self programming. If you don’t like the professional’s attitude or policies, just leave. Yiou as a consumer can walk out anytime you want. If you are not comfortable doing business with a particular practice, you can go elsewhere. If you don’t go elsewhere, then it is your fault.

In reply to @elminero

@elminero said:

No where on the my post did I make a generalization.

Your title includes the generalization “… THE INDUSTRY” and is even in all caps. In the English language that is a generalization. You extrapolate from your own experience and they claim that that is true for THE INDUSTRY. I have my good and bad experiences with audiologists and fitters, but you continue (in my opinion) to deny that you are making generalizations.

I am not going to waste more of my time on this thread, even though I agree with some of what you state as facts. As more than one of the provider’s on the forum have tried to point out you are in. my opinion spreading falsehoods (half truths) and if it discourages the providers who give so much to this forum from continuing to give graciously than while you have a right of free speech, I am unhappy that the forum tolerates such behavior, but that is just my opinion.

In reply to @kthejoker20

In the Netherlands the audiology chain may decline to further service you, but the factory warrenty remains in place. Then again, the chain “Beter Horen” (Better Hearing) that told me this, didn’t service my mother very well after she bought top-of-the-line Phonaks, too. So it could just that they were honest about after service.

Edited

In reply to @elminero

I think you’re right. Lies are in itself existential statements: If it is told once, it is a lie. And if they impact your hearing aid buying, then they are big lies.

So why do a lot of members write that BIG means that you generalize over the entire sector? Why do they think that it is about the persons in the sector at all? It could be about professionals in the sector that use these statements, but that’s as far as I can stretch it. So why?

Probably because there is a common theme in the media where BIG LIES and a general attack on a whole are entwined. So you will draw those who skim the headlines and fire their unbiased opinions about such headlines.

I found that audiology chains spend a lot of time protecting their interest. I also found some audiologists who were quite willing to help. I also found that those who were willing to help, were still afraid that they would lose their income if everybody started self programming. Usually I told them about my mom and they agreed that those less technically inclined would keep them in business forever. :slight_smile:

In reply to @jorge_andres_quiroz

@jorge_andres_quiroz said:

lie 2 : Hearing aids, are class 2 medical devices as such, this should be escalated to the FDA so they decide who or what hearing losses could be appropriate for DY programing. There is an issue of who is responsible liable in case something for example causes noise indice HL

I would think that after the aids are sold and there is no paid service to another party, the has absolutely nothing to say about it.
Or are suggesting that programming should break out of the hacking scene into the mainstream? Although I am all for that, it still seems very far away.

In reply to @hass5744

“let’s get something clear…”

well, people made reasoned arguments as to why in fact the OP WAS generalizing. Stamping your foot and denying it doesn’t make it not true. The way it works is, one has to respond to those who are showing that a generalization is being made, and then answer their points with counter arguments. Somehow in our society people have come to think that simply feeling something is a valid response ("vaccines are dangerous no matter what thousands of studies find because I feel that way’).

Great point.

I do agree with the author of this thread.

95% of my experience with trying to get hearing aids have been with shady people and i have experienced every lie mentioned here. My opinion is that the author is more then valid in thier perception.

I agree that there are shady practices in the industry, and more. My complaint has more to do with insurance (medicare) not covering ’s, at least in part. this may be about to change.

My current and longstanding provider has been very generous and helpful to me. I don’t have the savvy or care to tune my own aids. This gets complex given the needs of musicians (instrument right up next to one’s ears and resultant issues; need for music programs etc.). I do pay more up front but get easy and quick and accessible service–the provider is 10 minutes away. To me it’s worth it. But like car mechanics or any number of services, finding someone trustworthy can doubtless be hard.

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