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Moisture issues with Phonak Naida Paradise P90

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Long term user and having ups and downs with Paradise Naida P90 aid. Has anyone on board had moisture issues with these new power aids? And I’m talking moisture issues while using an aid dryer most nights. I just replaced a two year old aid dryer and am now back with new Global II dry and store with brik insert. Not the end of the world but starting to wonder if Paradise Naida P90 aids might have some improper aid/body design or defective parts that fail if limited moisture enters aid. On a scale from one to ten, with ten being extremely careful in protecting aids from moisture I’m probably a nine or ten. In late spring, summer and fall I dry aids every night in dryer/uv light. I don’t wear aids outside when working in high humidity, nor in rain, etc. With other aids I’ve have very little moisture issues over a three, four, five year periods. Now with other aids I’ve had an acrylic ear mold with wire connection or worn aids completely in outer ear or ear canal. But with new Paradise Naida P90’s I have (first time) silicone ear molds and also plastic tubing connected to aid ear hook.

So the question is will power aids with silicone ear molds and tubing create a higher level of moisture issues versus other ear molds or aids? I’m pretty sure the answer is no since aids are all pretty much the same be it an acrylic ear mold or silicone. Plastic tubing might make a difference but you would think an aid dryer routinely would remove any moisture. In previous ear molds (as with Paradise) I do have a very small air vent, which seem a non-factor as far as moisture collection.

Also starting to wonder since Phonak has already replaced certain aid parts and then issued completely new aids, if maybe the moisture card is being used to possibly cover us some other issue with aids. I’ve had two ear hooks replaced and also microphone, with aids being only 4 or 5 months old. Guess I will see if the Global II dry and store dryer improves things - since it flat out the warmest dryer on the market and also the longest hourly operating - 8 hours versus 2.5 for other aid dryers. If that doesn’t take care of the moisture problem - nothing will.

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I use a D&S Global II. They aren’t kidding about the 2 month useful life of the briks. I tracked a brik’s weight once and found that it stopped gaining weight (absorbing moisture) after 2 months. Checked the weight of another brik after 2 months’ use and found that it was at or near where the first brik had plateaued. So the briks won’t do much after 2 months. But they do or did sell reusable briks that you can renew in the oven.

I use the dry and store and my biggest complaint is replacing that brick. At the same time that brick seems to do a much better job removing moisture than other dryers that just blow air. I own a pair of naida paradise bte aids. I wear them when it’s humid. I wear them when it’s rainy. I have not encountered any moisture problems

You can also use an ear syringe, which is a round rubber bulb with a pointy end, to blow moisture out of your tubing.

In reply to @Zebras

Well I’ve now had my Phonak Niada Paradise P90 a year and about to force a return to Phonak and expect full refund. I’ve had continual aid malfunctions mostly due to ear hook moisture. Which is some what unbelievable due to the fact its winter, I’m outside very little, I dry relatively new aids in D&S Global II every night for eight hours, which is an excellent aid dryer. I’ve had (cheap) ear hooks last three months and I had them last one week. I’ve now gone through probably 10 over the last year and have serious thought that’s there’s some design defect in the hook attachment. Basically when aid is working I very happy with results but as time goes by, be it ten days or a few month (right side) ear hook fails and I have to swap out to a new one. Things got so bad in February I had to replace ear hook three times and now aid is being sent out for repair. For some really strange reason its always the right side aid that fails and not the left side. At this point I’m not exactly sure which Paradise aid is my dominate aid. In any case when (I believe) ear hook fails incoming sound drops 50%, incoming sound isn’t clear making aid almost useless. Half way through the year Phonak sent me completely new aids but ear hook issues are continuing in a maddening fashion. I seriously think Phonak has a major problem with faulty ear hooks and is aware of the problem, but doesn’t want to go public with issue for various reasons.

Prior to trying the Paradise P90 I never used a aid with ear hook. My previous ear molds were connected by a thin wire that traveled to aid body behind ear. With the Paradise aids I’m also using plastic tubing. Ear molds show no no wax build up, and in most cases tubing has been dry.

I really like these aids when they work but I’m not accepting the fact that for two more years under warranty they will break down every other week or month and I have to keep changing ear hooks or send aid back for repair. When someone has a severe hearing loss they need an aid that’s dependable and also not in the shop more than being used by the user.

I’d be very interested if anyone has this continuing problem/nightmare since I know how to keep aids dry, there is zero humidity outside, I don’t use aids in shower (sic) or walk in the rain, etc. If fact if I do any major work outside in yard or exercise I take aids out so I don’t have to deal with moisture issues, though my ear are always on the dry side.

Funny how the little things can make an aid malfunction. And an ear hook which might cost less than a dollar is really a little thing that’s creating big problems for me.

In reply to @stevemink

That’s weird. I’ve fit a lot of those hearing aids and never had a problem. Have you sent the right hearing aid in to be repaired? Maybe there’s a problem with the seal.

Consider dry tubing for that earmold.

You could also just put on an unfiltered hook and adjust the gain to compensate.

In reply to @Raudrive

Strange phenomenon, I have the exact same aids Rick, for just over year now…… Ear hooks, are the very same ones they gave me from day one, no moisture problems whatsoever, maybe a tiny bit, if I am sweating profusely on a hot summers day, but that’s it…. I do check for moisture, as some aids in the past, have been highly prone to lot’s of moisture. I put the Naida P90 UP’s, in their UV Drier every 2nd night, as they don’t require every night…… Cheers Kev :wink:

In reply to @Raudrive

Yes Phonak power aid Naida P90 up. I’ve taken aid back to Audi several times and told bad ear hook. I can’t see any moisture in plastic piece and even doubt there is moisture. Just saying either ear hooks are defective or there is something else making right aid malfunction. I have a few issue with Phonak aids losing connection and had to re-pair from time to time. And Audi told me to cook aid every night which I was already semi-doing in the past. Like three times a week during winter months. But then I dished out $100 for the Global ii drier and put aids in nightly for the month of February and that same month I had to replace 3 ear hooks. Crazy stuff.

I know manufacturers don’t like to refund full cost of HA’s after they’ve been paid for but these Naida UP 90’s (with disposal batter) are just not dependable. I’ve probably been back to my Audi’s office 20 times over the last year for aid related issues and aids have been sent in to Phonak repair two, or three times. One report did come back with faulty parts that were replaced and also mentioned moisture issue. But like I say I don’t have sweaty ears, I don’t wear aids outside in humid weather and I dry aids every night for 8 hours. What more can you do.

In any case I’ve also bought some accessories from Phonak like TV connector and remote control and that added the total cost to say over $4,000 - $5,000. Which I’ll expect back. I know HA don’t have so called “lemon laws” like cars but I got records, along with my Audi of each time aids have broken down or shall we say malfunctioned. And like I said early when Nadia UP P90 works I’m a happy camper. But I’m getting three months of good use then aid drop off. Get reset or repaired and ten days later fail again. Been that way for last 12 months - which if extremely frustrating.

Edited

I’d also like to add another oddity to my right aid failures. It seems a few days before my right side aid goes bad, I notice the opening chime sequence (when battery door closes) and aid inserted is slightly distant. The notification tone just isn’t as loud as it used to be and at first I wondered if I possibly had a weak battery. But batteries checked out in good shape, yet for some reason opening chine and “tone warning” connecting for were both very faint. Then like clock work two, three days later my right aid semi-shuts down. This last time aids failed the opening chime was also very slow, like they were sounding in slow motion and also muffled. I have no clue why a ear hook (if the culprit) would impact the sound level of of tone warning or chime notifications. Maybe someone else can tell me what causes this.

Something else worth trying would be to change the lead aid from the right to the left and see what happens.

Do your ear hooks have the light white ball (damper) in them? Removing them if they are there could be a fix for moisture.

In reply to @Neville

Yes. New aids in March 2021 (when purchased) and then in October new aids issued again. I’ve had stretches when aids worked fine for three months and then malfunction on right side. Then I’ve had right side aid malfunction ten days after coming back from Phonak repair or ten days after I (or Audi) replaced faulty ear hook. I live in Northern Virginia, near Leesburg and believe me there is no humidity here from November through April. Also very little snow and not much rain this year. But I feel Phonak is playing the moisture card when there is some other internal aid problem. Be it bad ear hooks or some other part failing inside aid. The only other thing I’ll add is when you have a severe plus hearing loss you need ’s to work perfectly. Since any little breakdown, or part failure or wax build up (and yes moisture) can throw the aid off. Someone with a mild the mid level hearing loss might not know the aid change or drop in performance, but when you have a severe hearing loss it definitely impacts your hearing level.

So at this point I don’t see where getting new Naida Paradise UP’s again (for third time) is going to change the pattern of aid working then not working. There are pros and cons buying new aids that just hit the market since you’re getting (supposedly) new technology and the latest and the greatest, but your also get aids that haven’t been tested over a long period of time, with no track record. I’ve been in the group that says if you can wait one year after a new aid comes out you might be better off because there are usually some bugs or aid issues that crop up during first year of use. Maybe that’s happening to me since the Phonak Naida Paradise UP is just over a year old and I bought a year ago.

I know the Paradise line has been out three/four years but not the Naida UP, which I was excited to get a year ago. Now - not so excited.

In reply to @Raudrive

Yea, hooks have white cotton or something inside. I’ve also read that should an ear hook malfunction or collect moisture it can impact the level of hearing with an aid. I’ve been told to leave ear hooks alone/damper, other than changing when needed. Well for the month of February I was changing ear hooks more than batteries. Ain’t that great.

I asked Audi if she could make my left aid dominate or as you say switch sides and I think she did that a ways back. Still from day one its always right side aid that fails. Next time Raudrive I visit Audi I’ll ask about replacing white ball damper. I will say I’ve had zero feedback problems with these aids probably due to silicone molds I using. Though I’d prefer acrylic fit for the long term.

@stevemink said:

I’ve been told to leave ear hooks alone/damper, other than changing when needed.

Don’t want to get you in trouble but……
A number of us on this forum talked about this damper a lot. It’s purpose and cons. Moisture is a con with the damper. Most of us used a piece of fishing line or monofilament to push this damper out of the ear hook, moisture issue was gone then. Your fitter will need to uncheck a box in the Phonak Target software if the damper is removed.

Do you have spare hooks for your aids? You could try removing the damper in each hearing aid hook for a trial. See how it goes before getting back with your fitter.

Thanks for update Raudrive. I was not aware HT forum had previous discussion on aid dampers, with pro and con comments. I have a very slight air vent in mold that I require to eliminate occlusion. As far as I’m concerned that’s the only opening moisture could enter to impact aid. Which I find difficult to accept using the D&S Global II every night. Now maybe there are those who think general moisture outside or around/inside ear can seep into aid body but I find that hard accept. These Naida P90’s are really sealed and when you close battery door, its really a tight fit. Tubing connections might be another matter but (so far) mine seem fit/snug. Heck when I try to pull plastic tubing off to replace ear hook, you really have to pull hard to separate end of ear hook from clear tubing tip. I actually thought plastic tubing was going to rip apart when trying to disconnect. And while trying to remove I was also gently twisting plastic tubing back and forth, while pulling apart.

I’ll have to run this by my Audi to remove damper (which I think is worth while) to try, since if I return aids I want to make sure I’m doing everything up front and don’t violate warranty. Certainly it wouldn’t hurt to try hooks with out damper, since I’m having problems with current arrangement.

@stevemink said:

As far as I’m concerned that’s the only opening moisture could enter to impact aid. Which I find difficult to accept using the D&S Global II every night. Now maybe there are those who think general moisture outside or around/inside ear can seep into aid body but I find that hard accept.

The moisture comes into the sound tube from your very humid inner ear, not from the outside air.

The little white damper actually defeats the D&S you are using each night by blocking the moisture inside the aid.

Been there done that.
Good luck

Most moisture problems come from within the ear and can drift up to the ear hook, I guess. Ear hooks are replaceable and easy to do. Hearing aid companies don’t seem to consider a refund a viable solution. It’s so much cheaper for them to replace the aid.

Edited

In reply to @Raudrive

Well “little whiite” damper was removed on right side aid and Audi made noted program adjustment. Three days later right aid went bad and incoming sound was severely diminished. Audi claims I’m collecting moisture rapidly in lower section of tubing that connects to ear mold. I’ve been instructed to disconnect tubing from aid on a daily basis and blow air through tubing. Well that’s a non-starter since tubing is not designed to be removed and put back on, on a day to day basis. Its flat out difficult to disconnect and I’m sure will break from repeated pulling/pushing back on. Also from long term experience I’m well aware a good aid dryer (Dry and Store) will clearly dry out an aids if used routinely or every night as I do.

But when right aid has acted up now (twice this week) with damper removed and I do blow air through disconnected tubing, aid functions pretty much return to normal. For (if the pattern continues) for three or so days and then malfunction again.

Audi is thinking of switching me to acrylic molds for Phonak Naida Paradise P90 to address moisture issue. Thinking some how acrylic material will be an improvement over silicone - and eliminate moisture problems. Of course if tubing is still used, the jury is out if this change will work.

Lastly my left aid which has worked fine for over a year - still has the fish hook white tamper in place. Left aid very dependable with clear incoming sound - every day. So currently I have a right aid that fails with or without damper every few days and a left aid that’s works like a fine Swiss clock.

Regarding moisture I’ve worn forever and have never ever had moisture issues though for many years I used Starkey canal aid, then full shell and then power aids with thin wire connection. No moisture problems what so ever, but all the aids above were acrylic aid shell with no plastic tubing.

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