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Why do most audiologist refuse to reprogram online purchases?

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Lets not confuse Fake News, with Alternative Facts.
I was hesitant to believe the Ai result, and too lazy at the moment to dig in myself.
HOWEVER, after speaking to an friend, who keeps on top of science and research… I am tempted to be optimistic.

In reply to @IGZO

I can imagine something that claims to do within the hearing aid. Pretty hard to fathom that it could duplicate it. To me, rumors from an friend are a much more reliable source than something from

I would think that using a high tech probe sensor, that couples to each hearing aid, possibly via the charge contacts- or connecting to the instruments wirelessly it is actually quite doable.

I think the procedure has many pitfalls, which can be avoided only by experienced professionals.

Expensive, calibrated, high-quality microphones and loudspeakers are needed. They should be placed appropriately in front of the patient, not below head level (a common mistake).

Proper placement of the ear canal probe is also necessary—approximately 3 mm from the eardrum, without perforating it.

This is just the starting point. Many mistakes can be made by non-professionals…

I would be careful about “in-home” REMs.

The in home as you call it, would have an intrinsic design to overcome the issues.
It would compare the tone heard by the instrument mics, and the tone that it knows is calling for in the software.
It would know the exact distance from the speaker in canal due to fact that distance can be calculated if a known energy (sound) is measured. Though even light could be used to measure the distance if there was a tiny LED in the for that purpose.
But the instrument really does not need to know the distance.
The important distance factor is that it be as close to, the drum without touching.
Then the mic can measure the speaker sound that the drum should be receiving.
This is based on the relatively longer distance from the speaker, to the REM mic, and the rather insignificant distance between the mic and the drum.

The majority of expensive high quality microphones differ from most high quality microphones in price only :smile:
The way I have had probe measurements done is by Oto Scope, and comparing a think semi rigid probe’s depth marks with the amount of mic wire inserted. Not so difficult to do by one with some good mechanical understanding and dexterity.

In reply to @MDB

I’m a fan of for some purposes. Saves lots of time parsing searches for example although one still needs to verify sources. But here’s something to support your skepticism. A recent news article describes a particular AI’s very embarrassing answer to a question about a certain controversial character. :slight_smile: But the kicker is that a second AI, when asked the same question, quotes the first! https://shorturl.at/scTpc2 My take is that AI has a long way to go before it will replace critical thinking skills. Not to mention the high percentage of people who already know all the answers and therefore don’t believe in asking questions anyway.

I agree that can be useful. I just don’t think it should be cited as a source unless there’s some verification.

My Bad! you are absolutely right. In haste I foolishly referenced Ai, when I should have copied links to meaningful supportive information.

Meanwhile, the lack of critical thinking is an obvious affliction suffered by half of the voters in the USA. Not saying which half.

Yes- very interesting. The greatest statesman that the US electorate could find in the country promptly decided (by decrete) to raise prices on all imports. Buy Starkey or face the consequences…

It’s been done.

Starkey did it using a probe tube fitted to the front mic of their devices. Good basic idea.Wildly unsuccessful, less accurate than a properly calibrated system and not designed for clients to use. Also risks ‘marking your own homework’ issues when pitched against a real set-up.
Again: the issue is that people underestimate the amount of effort involved at the coalface in just fitting accurately/getting the client to deal with the issue.

Perhaps we’ll see it making a comeback if they decide to go when nobody buys their gear in Europe any more.

In reply to @Bimodal_user

@Bimodal_user

Hi Gandalf
I think that we forget that people from all over the world participate here.
I’m in Toronto Ontario. My dispensing audi never set up the hearing aids he supplied properly. 3 years later I’ve left him and found better service elsewhere. Except for my last appointment, he always used . His hearing aids were awful. We parted a year and a half ago.
at 78 I have trouble hearing today.

My chosen source of care is Hearing Well Matters. A distance away. I have an active claim with workman’s compensation. I’m lucky.

The reason that Im posting is because this wonderful firm took me in a year and a half ago. They can’t sell me new hearing aids until I’ve had these for 5 years. They have to work extremely hard to be paid by workman’s comp for the work they do.
“Why do most audiologist refuse to reprogram online purchases?” is why I’m responding. Flipping it: there are many reasons why he might have refused my request for help. Instead, he took me on. My hearing aids were supposed to be good when I got them. There were improvements from my first appointment.

I even got new hearing aids and charger when he sent my first Paradise P90R’s in near the end of warranty. Thank you Mr. Hamilton! Thank you Phonak! You both treated my needs and provided the care I needed. You showed me that hearing aids are “medical equipment” after all.

Edited
@DaveL said:

Except for my last appointment, he always used REM.

IIRC, you had an performed incorrectly, in which your hearing thresholds were erroneously better than in reality. That inaccurate audiogram could provide an inappropriate prescription target, even if perfectly achieved in . Domino effect.

And I heard about practitioners who use REM as a measurement but don’t make any REM-based adjustments to achieve the prescription target. I don’t know if this was your case; I just read about that.

@DaveL said:

“Why do most audiologist refuse to reprogram online purchases?” is why I’m responding. Flipping it: there are many reasons why he might have refused my request for help. Instead, he took me on.

Happy to read about your final positive experiences. I am embarrassed by overly demanding clients, but I think should help (paid adequately) just point there is many variables (like warranty) they can’t help.

For me, I should pay for:

  1. Couselling about acoustic coupling
  2. Making ear impression and for earmold
  3. Necessary more recent tests
  4. Test box
  5. REM-based adjustments
    etc.

I think the audi would not suffer a financial loss, provided the services are properly priced.

Great memory.

I’ve never returned to my dispensing Audi. I’m focusing on hearing better.

I celebrate the Pro hearing providers here who provide advice and help.

I appreciate your posts and advice

Somehow my dispensing Audi got me top model Paradise P90Rs. Workman’s Compensation normally don’t do that

I need to remember that Audi provided top model hearing aids that replaced two year old hearing aids. And that helped me hear heavy diesel trucks overtaking me from behind. I just couldn’t understand speech.

In reply to @Bimodal_user

My dispensing Audi encouraged me to adjust my hearing aids, and save the programs when they were beneficial. He told me to use the APP. He never used the APP for remote setup

I had hearing problems from the beginning using the P90R’s he provided.

Setup is so important! We all need that golden individual who has the wonderful experience to help us out.

Edited

What do you mean by remote setup? Hearing aid fitters and audiologists use a specialized app to program. The app on phones changes presets and a few things, but the actual prescription and how the hearing aids function in their different programs are programmed using fitting software.

As for fitting outside , it changes the pricing model. No more free adjustments. No more domes or included. Some will offer service packages to include this, but it starts resembling the bundle. You also have to have more volume to make up for patients wanting fewer services, or the full service experience will cost a lot more in the end that it does now to make up for patients who don’t need the current level of services.

Edited

@StataHA

Once you register and agree the audi or hearing instrument specialist can access the hearing aids remotely using myPhonak. I’ve registered with Phonak to allow them to do that so that i might participate.
I’ve never had that happen.
I’d love to arrange to be in a noisy environment where I can’t hear and have them do setup. I’d love to give feedback so they can make meaningful improvement with my hearing aids.

I found that out when I did an internet search which directed me to Phonak Pro…I’d done an internet search for myPhonak

When you get a pair of Phonak, I know they use Phonak Target wirelessly in their office to setup our hearing aids.

Many individuals here participate and help each other.

I know I could purchase a noahlink ? device to do that myself; however, I have an iMac and not a PC. And little computer skill.

edit: I confirmed using just now…!

"Copilot
Yes, Phonak can use the myPhonak app to set up and adjust your hearing aids remotely. The app allows you to connect with your hearing care professional for remote support sessions, where they can fine-tune your hearing aids based on your feedback. This feature is particularly useful for making adjustments without needing to visit the clinic in person."

as I’ve said before, *Phonak! I volunteer to be a member of a senior focus group testing and improving high end Phonak hearing aids suitable for my hearing loss

All manufacturers offer remote support now, get the Noahlink wireless and you’ll be able to do everything yourself in your own time all without internet connection required.

In reply to #175

@LilyThornton said: (unavailable)

you might end up with settings that do more harm than good

The Target software automatically saves backups of your Phonak configuration after each session- including when you first use it. So even if you completely misconfigure your it is extremely simple to revert to whatever your audiologist had done.
It would recommend to make single changes at a time, but the process is completely risk-free.

Some audiologists will program remotely and some won’t.

I can see why they wouldn’t want to do that. Just too many variables with patients having issues with phones, not understanding how to pair it, poor cell signal to connect remotely, not being in the right environment. The online retailers offering remote programming are serving a market and there is opportunity there. I also think there are opportunities for independent practices to program outside aids.

The market is changing, and patients are more informed than ever. That’s a good thing for the consumer.

In reply to @DaveL

@DaveL said:

I’ve said before, *Phonak! I volunteer to be a member of a senior focus group testing and improving high end Phonak hearing aids suitable for my hearing loss

You know, the sonova innovation center is in Mississauga and they do recruit participants from time to time. Maybe you could call and get on the list.

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