@fbacher1: I’ve been wearing hearing aids for 16 years, and - like you - I experienced quite a bit of trouble, in the beginning. Let me offer this: everything you are saying screams three things at me:
Your hearing aids are not correctly adjusted;
has not been correctly applied; and
You need quite a few more weeks of habituation to get your auditory brain back into shape.
If the person you see at Costco can’t deal with your issues, find somebody who can.
[Addendum: You don’t have to take off the receivers to use EarGear - just put them in with the receivers pointing out of the big hole in the bottom. The spandex will keep the sox on the just fine.]
I bought the mico version of the EarGear and it just will not expand enough to fit over the very wide bottom of the tear shaped BiCores. They claim the mini will. In the meantime I did find a really cool round foam solution that over the sides of glasses but only available in the Netherlands. There’s also “cat ears” that goes on the helmet strap (I did order that one to try). My fitter made a special program after talking with a rep and reduced some specific hi-freq. It did not help. And I think once my hair is back to the length I normally keep it (buzzed now) I might be OK with mtn biking. The fact that I could never really understand the chatter between riders anymore was one of the reasons I finally agree to get HA.
She has also reduced some higher frequencies a bit to try to address what I’m calling distortion which has taken some of the really bad edge off of what I am hearing and will see if that helps my brain start to adjust. I just had this done today and so far it seems better to me. If it does the plan is to gradually try to get back to the fit goals over time. I’ll give this another month to see where I’m at then and decide then if I want to try another person at another CostCo store that implies she could help me a lot. I hate jumping after just a month with this fitter. I am due to see an Audiologist next month about my low frequency loss in my left ear (45 db @250 hZ) since it’s a bit unusual.
Thanks for your advice and help…really appreciate this forum and I’m not ready to throw in the towel yet.
I know everyone says this will take 1-6 months for my brain to adjust but I thought I would perceive something by now. I did get some ear gear covers for the wind noise issue and no doubt they might help with the ear noise too.
AUGH!!! Do NOT believe that it takes MONTHS for YOUR brain to adjust to THESE poorly-tuned aids. You are walking in lockstep with me, but about a month behind.
I’ve worn aids 35 years, so I know what I want my world to sound like. I don’t take no guff from no one about what my brain should be doing to adapt to the harshness and completely unacceptable speech recognition you are going through. In fact, several years ago, I turned in a pair of Oticon OPN aids cuz everyone was saying “New paradigm!” “Your brain will LOVE these!” But they weren’t for ME. Hearing is very individualized.
By contrast, with my new Phonak Life aids, I KNEW I could get these to the quality of sound I wanted, and ended up literally having my older Marvel aids program transferred over lock, stock, and barrel to the new Life aids.
Your brain is not going to adapt to distortion! Nor should it! You may need to clarify better what’s going on with the sound to your audi. Tell them “It sounds like a harsh public address system.” Or “It sounds like that awful music that comes from the gas pumps, nagging me to buy this or that.” Try to articulate exactly what awful sound you’ve lived through that is exactly like these aids are putting out now.
Until I got my Life aids loaded with the perfect Marvel settings, I couldn’t even understand a gal sitting across a coffee table from me in the lobby of a clubhouse. It was almost comical, cuz I’d enjoyed 4 years of FANTASTIC hearing with the older Marvel aids!
Be persistent. This isn’t on YOU. It’s on the SYSTEM. Fingers crossed you will get to a better spot SOON.
My fitter made a special program …She has also reduced some higher frequencies a bit
@fbacher1: Beware! The Big 6 have fitted millions of individuals successfully using their proprietary fitting algorithms and their ‘stock’ situational programs that reside in the .
If your fitter doesn’t posess the necessary skills and knowhow to make their “canned” solutions work for you, how are they ever going to devise anything that works, based on their own knowledge?
[Ever taken a look at some if the priceless frescoes in Spanish and Portuguese churches that well-intentioned amateurs have tried to ‘restore’? Right…Find a new fitter.Now. Life is too short!]
If it does the plan is to gradually try to get back to the REM fit goals over time.
DUDE! I may be completely ignorant in this regard, but WHY (oh WHY?) are you and your audis so insistent on getting YOU back to ?
It’s like someone telling me if I wear a size 5 shoe my feet will finally adjust some fine day, even tho they prefer a size 8.
I would so appreciate the feedback here of someone else to refute my point, cuz if you describe your sound like the drive-through at McDonalds, well I’m confounded as to why you’d want to continue to hear the world (and mountain biker chatter) like that.
Yes. And if the fitter rides a mountain bike, so much the better. Again, we’ve said it before, but even the best, most well-intentioned audi can not LIVE in our ears. Only we have that pain + pleasure. So I would also seek out a new audi and fingers crossed they actually HEAR what you want with their perfect ears.
So I’ll re-state that and just say that the gain is set low right now based on the initial set up because it was just sounded too loud for me from the start. I did have her undo part of that this time since it was not sounded as loud and she backed off on some of the high frequencies which took care of some not all of the distortion. So I’m expecting that it might be set back up again eventually if my brain starts to process the high freq better. But I know I don’t want that high freq distortion back.
I guess I am confused when people say your brain need to get used to the high frequencies does that mean that sounds are too loud or are they too distorted for the untrained brain? What part of the sound (distortion) that I don’t like is my brain not used to it and and what part is the not set right, too much gain at high frequencies or maybe just distortion coming from the hardward? At any rate this new setting I tried tonight is so much better and no wind noise at all with sunglass mods, lol. I could still hear my riding partner and it was much more clear. It’s not there yet and I do plan to have another fitter at another Costco now take at look.
Oh the fitter doesn’t ride a mtn bike, this 73 year old does and I think I’m the oldest rider in our young group and the only one with hearing aids, lol.
I am confused when people say your brain need to get used to the high frequencies does that mean that sounds are too loud
So, I was thinking that I needed my audi to roll off the hi’s on mine. Last night I had a situation and didn’t wear either of mine and it felt as if I was going deaf. I’m three weeks in.
Today, I saw my guy and we changed my domes to 10mm open (from 8’s) and although I had tried to download the s/w app from TruHearing, it wouldn’t load (my iPhone is too old). It turns out that my iPhone already had a built-in functionality that provides access to the built-in programs.
When we speak of high-frequencies, that means in the range from 2k Hz to 8k Hz. These will be the portion of the audio spectrum where the sound is high pitched. In music the note all the way on the left end of the piano keyboard is a low frequency whereas the note all the way on the right end of the piano keyboard is a high frequency. The high frequencies give sounds their “crispness”. A whistling tea kettle is a high frequency.
If you look at my audio profile you’ll see that my curves are sloping down on the right. My standard adjustment has given me back the highs (and after only three weeks it is still rather jarring but as someone on another thread told me: it took me the last 30 years to lose those highs and getting them back in a day takes some getting used to).
Thanks to everyone who is helping those of us who are new to understand this new world.
You’re ignoring this member’s posts.
BlackyZürich, CH 2021-now // Berlin, DE 2017-2021 // HR origin
Uf, you’ve just confirmed what I’ve suspected - that finding a good fitter here will be hard. And that prices are crazy
I’ve moved last year to CH, and my ears didn’t yet come to the table, but my old fitting still works ok (I still haven’t unpacked nor find my Noah (NLW)).
To answer you ‘how to find a good fitter’ - I plan to be painfully insistent on precise answers when I decide to look for someone. Good list of things to check if they do/how they do it/to explain themselves why they’re not doing something that’s best practice and how they work around it - dr Cliff website has great list.
When someone tells you that machine is obsolete and that sw is the best, just get out and spare yourself wasted time on that initial fit - REM based with small adjustments will and should leave you with proper program that works in quiet (and no hard environment, yours is really hard environment). That saves you tons of stupid visits of ‘how do you hear me now’ and can start working on really needed adjustments for hard environments, additional programs and so on.
For illustration, my first aids, I’ve spend 2-3 times a week for 5 weeks fo ‘how do you hear me now’ with a guy who knows sounds but doesn’t have proper equipment and we made it best possible (widex dream - phonak sounded horrible). And I’ve tried 4 more fitters/audiologists and they were shit. In Croatia. Then I moved to Berlin, went with one with really good reviews, and asked for recheck of those widexes, and he did such a mess that I’ve heard better without his programming. I asked him to reload my old programming. Also he did try to sell me phonaks with similar approach. I think it took me 2 months if not more all together and I was pissed off and decided I’ll just do . Day before ordering on ebay I’ve found a fitter who does REM based fittings and follows most of best practices (some aren’t covered by insurance, so he doesn’t have equipment/sw, nor german version of such things really exist - specifically sentence in noise, but also other noise sources than whitenoise for -like testing of fitting - and 90% of his clients are happy and go with basic models anyway which is 100% covered by insurance)
Yes, I wasn’t the most pleasant customer when I showed on his door so frustrated, but in just a few minutes I realised I’ve finally found someone who knows what he’s doing Not to mention that I was with 3 I think in Berlin and no one did proper . My fitter (and everyone in Croatia for that matter, so 20ish people) has no problem to do the test properly. I mean - to some I’ve told they’re doing it wrong and told what’s missing and they dismissed it. So yeah. Fun fun. I hope here folks know how to do that properly, but we’ll see.
Also, he fitted cheapest model on me for fun - so I back to back tested Marvels 90, Paradises 90 and some unitron basic model. In same quiet, listening through TV the same youtube video and same sentence over and over again - all were exactly the same. Such comparison of bunch of models is possible IMO only if someone does fast fitting, which is another huge benefit if you need that.
Anyhow, arm yourself with right questions, go here: https://hearingup.com/7 click on top right on resouces and pick ‘best practices checklist’. I did this with my chosen fitter and we discussed a lot of things.
So my plan B when moving here was my fitter in Berlin who said I can come whenever.
I have intention to look here for someone good - for me that means REM based fittings, and working together with me (so I intend to keep DIY). However, I don’t need that unless something serious happens, or I decide to change my aids, which I assume won’t happen that soon (since I hate daily rechargables and it seems we’re stuck with that ).
I might be more inclined to go to mediocre fitters (those with only ‘how do you hear me now’ method I despise) for things like ordering new receivers, and such. Maaaybe molds.
Not to mention that Berlin prices are lower than Swiss ones, so it won’t be hard to decide to get on nightjet and go to Berlin and back.
Also, shipping to CH isn’t THAT big problem - if I remember correctly, train ticket to some village in Germany from my village here will cost me around 25 chf (with halbtax, roundtrip), and there are bunch of packstation type shops which receive your package and you pick it up later. I’m using German side since that’s closer to ZH canton, more specifically https://lieferadresse-jestetten.ch/2
And then you just cross the border regulary. Yes, you report for tax purposes if you go above zoll allowance (there’s an app for it), and yes you usually can’t deduct DE tax, but hell, prices are still significantly better
About your environment, I’d suggest you sit down your partner and seriously explain issues. Ideally if you can find some sound examples how it EXACTLY sounds to you. Most of partners have no idea how things are irritating when you have hear loss. Because it’s usually not exactly flat loss (as they imagine, that we hear everything worse, so we need just louder, so ear plugs are poor representation usually), but we perceive different sounds totally differently amplified eg shoe on wooden floor can drive us nuts but we won’t hear bird or alarm until it’s crazy loud.
It’s hard to explain and hard to understand. They’ll have to trust you and take you seriously. Assuming they care about you.
If they don’t, keep in mind that Aestetics should NOT be more important than you being comfortable in your own home. Take your ground there. Be it separate on different floors as a living solution or hell even divorce - because why would you want to live with someone who doesn’t want you to be comfortable in own home?
You can’t work out good middle solution if someone doesn’t care about you.
However, if they do care, there are options.
Rugs can be put on walls or ceilings and couches. Bookcases with books of uneven sizes and not perfectly flat. Small furniture to break the lines. Plants.
Also there are bunch of acoustic panels that can be bought or build to help with reducing echo.
If my partner wouldn’t want to put me in front of aestetic no matter what solution I try to find, they wouldn’t be my life partner. I don’t want to live miserable life in my own home. But I grow up to become more ‘militant’ in my approach, because after all, I live only once, and I definitely don’t want to feel bad in a place that I should call my home.
But let’s hope it’s not that dire and it’s just about person not realising how bad thing is. You don’t have to find a perfect example, you just need to find a similarly annoying example - my wild guess would be that if you grab a pan/pot and a spoon and start smashing it while talking to the person, will be more than enough to illustrate how difficult environment becomes. Put your HAs on mute during this experiment
Also, in phonak target there are some sound examples to share on speakers to show the partner what is the issue, if I remember correctly, no clue how they work exactly, but look around, no HA needed for that.
Oh the fitter doesn’t ride a mtn bike, this 73 year old does and I think I’m the oldest rider in our young group and the only one with hearing aids, lol.
WooOOooOOO!!! Keep on ridin’! That is impressive. I gave up mnt bike riding at 60. But I now use that same Ellsworth Truth bike on a Wahoo Kickr as an exerbike.
I should’ve looked at your sooner. I NOW SEE why the higher freqs are being emphasized. Even so, perhaps not so aggressively? I’ve also read here that Oticon is THE OPEN SOUND product - bar none - out there today. So if that’s for you, you’re likely on the right track. Just have them keep turning down the high freqs till there’s no more crackling, distortion, or thin, harsh sound perhaps?
Ah, if Volusiano were here, he could give you the science behind it … try to PM him?
Thanks for the link. I guess what I’m after is what is the the subjective complaint of a person whose brain need time to “adapt” to high frequencies again? Is it:
Sounds too loud
Sounds too quiet
Sounds distorted or garbled
Sounds too thin
I don’t understand speech at high frequency (could be in addition to one or all of the above)
Given that what I’m actually hearing is being evaluated with my subjective feedback and how I can describe what I’m hearing is very inexact and open to interpretation by the fitter I would like to know how to separate my own brain’s shortcomings from something the program or is doing. Maybe that’s impossible without more data from the fitter and their job really.
Some here will tell me “you are over thinking this” and you need to wait 1-4 months while your brain adapts. Stop making changes and wait. And so I have to turn down the volume to not suffer.
Another will say “if it’s not working for you time to find another fitter/audiologist now”, don’t waste any more time (4 weeks now). Or you need to try brand X HA. No one has come out and said the BiCore/Signia AX7 is junk and has too much distortion for example. And yet I hear that 13% of HA don’t meet the manufacturers spec for things like distortion or signal to noise ratio and have no idea where my HA sit (don’t think they were ever verified and will ask my new fitter to do that to eliminate the HA as the source of the distortion).
I will say that the adjustments made yesterday and so much better. I can still occasionally hear some break up or distortion with some voices (mostly the more nasal female newscasters on TV) but overall a step in the right direction. If I had the hardware (a scope) I would try to pinpoint the actual frequency where this occurs. Just looked and there is an iphone app called SpectrumView that I might try to give my fitter more direct feedback on what frequencies that need to be reduced. I don’t want frequencies that are NOT causing a problem to be reduced which might hurt my understanding of speech. Rexton advertises that hearing should not be so much work, lol, but so far it is a lot of work to get it right.
I took up mtn biking at age 68. I rode observed trials on a variety of motorcycles in the 70’s and then focused on getting my engineering degree and didn’t pay attention to how mtn bikes had evolved. Then I broke my collar bone, two ribs and shoulder blade about 3 years ago and even had a bout with frozen shoulder. I am on my 2nd ebike an high end Specialized and one of the least powerful but lightest emountain bikes out there (lots of $$$) and love it. Just enough to keep up with the youngsters, lol. And I am very padded to help avoid another bad injury along with moderating what I ride, especially down hills.
Thanks for the feedback. I am a follower of Dr Cliff too. All the CostCo’s seem to do and in fact I could have gone with my Medicare Advantage benefit, paid about the same but none of them do REM. The one thing I don’t think they did the Dr Cliff says is a must is to check that the meet the manufacturers specs. They had the machine to do that on the desk at CostCo but no data was provided to me to show they used that machine on my HA. And I did ask about it. I am encouraged by my last adjustment yesterday and it was a big step in the right direction. And I even found a very effective solution to wind noise on mtn biking. Zero problems with the wind now and it was pretty easy after I saw a Netherlands product not available in the US so just made my own, lol. I have found another fitter that I’m going to talk to today. She sounded promising when I first talked to her and I’m going to give her a chance to further improve things for me.
If your hearing test determined that you are no longer hearing the frequencies from 2k Hz to 8k Hz, your profile will amplify those frequencies in proportion to your loss.
So, all of the sound that you weren’t hearing will suddenly be back in your ears.
So, yes, things will be louder but there will also be more resolution to what you are hearing.
As somebody else mentioned, typing at the keyboard sounds quiet/muffled without my ’s however because the HA’s add back the highs, with my HA’s typing is both louder and contains “more detail” in what I’m hearing.
So “louder” is not my complaint. I can see where my brain might have to adjust to a sound that it perceives as loud (high freq for instance). It’s distortion at what I think are higher frequencies. Just finished reading a paper on and distortions and while not meant for a mechanical engineer or HA user, it does shed a lot of light on the types and sources of distortion. It’s a subject far more complex than my degree would allow me to understand without going back to school and getting a masters in electrical engineering, lol. And the tools necessary to measure if a particular HA is creating any of the various types/sources of distortion are not found in a CostCo Hearing Center with the exception of the Test Box measurement equipment which could catch a HA not meeting manufactures specs for for instance.
Oticonian/Disposablyte
).
Rural New England