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Throwing in the Towel

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Edited

While I’m not ready to “throw in the towel”, I would like more feedback from those that talk about the brain adjusting to high-frequencies. Before your brain adjusted were high-frequencies just too loud or did they distort and break up? I’ve lowered the volume on BiCores now down to 3 (default is 8) in an experiment to see if I can get used to this more slowly. Not much hearing or understanding improvement there but this is right where I start to hear sounds like high pitch music, some woman on TV and even some more hi-pitched men start to break up or distort. My tech already turned down the volume two times at my initial fitting when we tested how “8” felt and it felt very loud to me.

My other issue is with motion artifact sounds and just doesn’t ever seem to go away and it appears to be caused by the motion of my ear side or the head rubbing hair that is causing these chirps and static sounds. Given how easy it is to make a make a static sound by rubbing the body of HA, how are all of you avoiding this issue with yawn, head scratches, smiles, squints, eating, etc.? Maybe the wire from the HA to the receiver is too short and tight not accommodating this motion or maybe the dome is too tight in my ear (open dome, 7mm)? I’m at the 3 week point now and wonder if my brain should made some perceivable adjustment by now?

Since I’m about a week away from my next appointment I finally had to go to the neural net program and tell it what I was hearing was “too sharp”. I did this twice and I think what it did was turn down the higher frequencies without affecting some of the mid and low frequencies. It’s better and I can leave the volume at “8”. So it much be the high frequencies that are sounding so bad and broken up for me. I had to take them out 5 hrs early yesterday because they were so annoying and was going to just leave them out until my appointment in a week but today I’ll “try again”.

In automatic mode, l hear the air conditioner humming noise under ‘Automatic’ setting in MyPhonak app. I send my P70 UP aids to ‘Comfort in Noise’ setting and l don’t hear the A/C noise.
You might want to try that setting and is the wood cracking noise an soft noise in Target software. Try using soft noise reduction and or noise block. You can download an spectrum analyzer app for your phone to show what’s the frequency sound of the cracking wood and cabinet doors.

In reply to @fbacher1

@fbacher1 said:

While I’m not ready to “throw in the towel”, I would like more feedback from those that talk about the brain adjusting to high-frequencies.

High frequencies were just too loud for me until I got used to them. Never had distortion and breakup.

I don’t think you can push your domes in too far. The bend in the receiver wire should prevent it.

Do you frequently reseat the body of the behind your ear, or let it settle where it’s stable? Acoustically it should work fine as long as it’s close to horizontal. I recall reading that a tilt up to 20° is acceptable. I’m asking in case you’re trying to hide the HA behind your ear.

In reply to @paulpuente

I also live in Switzerland and have Phonak P90s. Should you ever consider a change of Audiologist, I’ve had excellent service from Hörberatung Zürich Mogg GmbH, in Zürich.

Many thanks for the info. I live near Basel so Zürich is not so convenient but doable by train.

In reply to @Terost

I have a “Speech in Noise” program but not “Comfort in Noise”. Even with the SiN program the cracking sound of my floors is too much. The Noah is ordered but not yet delivered so I am not using Target until I receive the Noah. I have created a custom program within the app that has noise reduction on high, speech focus on narrow, dynamic decreased slightly, and volume on default. It helps reduce the cracking sound but not by much and speech comprehension is also compromised. I’ll look into the spectrum analyzers.

In reply to @roybrocklebank

I understand what you are saying about sound bouncing off hard surfaces. We have a very modern 3 story home with beautiful old flooring throughout including the staircase. My partner is loathed to use any type of carpeting and our furnishings are definitely not what one would call plushy. We are not going to change our living environment but hopefully I will be able to customize my to minimize the cracking sound. Thanks for your comments.

You definitely need custom molds and to be performed. Adjusting the aids to your is practically worthless without REM, and for REM to be successful you need well made custom molds because silicone cups change position within your ear canal all the time and therefore the acoustic characteristics of your ear-aids system.

I also bought a couple of Phonak M90 online from an audi in Cyprus (and a Noah for in Korea) since they costed 3400€ compared to 6000 in an audi’s office in Spain. It was my first pair of hearing aids ever although I’ve had hearing loss all my life.
The aids came programmed to my audiogram (as I had it from my work medical checkup) but the sound was horrible.
I then paid an audi to do a new audiogram and adjust the aids, she did it using Target software estimation with Audiogramdirect (audiogram performed by the themselves); the sound improved but still wasn’t very good. This audi refused to perform REM even at my demand.
It took me around 2 months to adapt myself enough to tolerate the new loud world around me without suffering a headache.
One year later I saw that in France hearing aids were even cheaper than online, and in addition to that you get the audi’s service for several years!
I decided then to buy the new P90, which I needed because of much improved Bluetooth, and give my ancient pair to my son.
I went to Unisson in Lille and the audioprothésiste told me that we needed custom cups (55€ each) to have good results, made the impressions for me and my son, made new audiograms for both, gave me a pair of trial P90R with silicon cups and performed REM to adjust them.
The sound after REM with silicon cups wasn’t good, so I reverted to Target’s estimation.
One week later we returned to the audioprothésiste to put on the custom molds, he adjusted the HAs again using REM. So much better, it was like day and night! It is as good as it can be, sound is very clear and annoying sounds are not annoying. It still took some months to fully adapt myself, but this time the adaptation came as improved word recognition in my 2nd and 3rd languages. Since then, I’ve only performed minor adjustments like tweaking noise reduction in certain programs thanks to hints I found in this forum.
This audi also took in charge my son with no problem, I just pay him for each season. Furthermore, he collaborates with my DIY.

I suggest you to go to France to an audiologist office. I don’t know how the other Unisson offices will be, but the one in Lille is excellent. I chose this office after much reading on a French forum and it was a hit (beware that, like elsewhere, there are plenty of bad audiologists in France too)

Visit audiologyonline.com12 for easy to understand software info and training courses. You have to register but the courses are free and provide great info on all of the adjustments and tuning options.
And personally I haven’t found to be the end all to programming. Almost no one keeps the REM settings and walks aways happy. You still need fine tuning.

The aides have MANY possible ‘modes’ for me any fan like the an is annoying so I have to change the mode on the aides. Then all is good. I suggest finding a different mode that doesn’t amplify the floor noise.

In reply to @gsmith9810

@gsmith9810 said:

what does REM stand for

Real Ear Measurement
It is essential to verify your aids are on target and that as far as gain is concerned, that the aids are matching your . But matching gains to an audiogram is just a start in my opinion and further adjustments are needed by most since we all process sounds so differently, even with matching audiograms.

I understand. I don’t wear my like I should. I understand why my father refused aids and my grandfather’s sat in the drawer. The loud sounds at low to midrange frequencies often drive me nuts.

But I need to hear stuff, so I do programming with Phonaks. The most interesting thing I ever heard from an expert was, “you don’t hear like normal Hearing people.” That made me realize I couldn’t program my HAs the way audis are taught to program (and I admire those who know how to deviate from that for folks like me). The expert was right–I use different cues to understand speech and some that most folks use I can’t use at all. How refreshing to learn this!

What works best for me has been counterintuitive, and I’m happy to share ideas if you program. If you throw in the towel, I’m happy to share ideas too. Sound is important, but I find it a little overrated sometimes in terms of the tradeoff between what I get vs how painful / frustrating / exhausting it is to get it.

I suspect mine will not be a popular post. Likely people will tell me how, if only I do something else (like wear HAs all day) it will work out. Not to worry, I’m already fine. I’ve made peace with it, between DIY, measured HA wearing, captions/ Roger pen (what a godsend that pen is!) and sign language.

Let me know if there is anything I can do to help, the process is excruciating and you have my sympathy. Just know that DIY is freeing because you can precisely adjust the tradeoff between damping crazy-making sounds and the often-resulting (at least in my case) lessened ability to understand speech. I’m happy for you that you may try DIY, it gives more options.

In reply to @mr.smithster

@mr.smithster said:

Almost no one keeps the REM settings and walks aways happy.

Disagree. The vast majority of my adult patients are very happy with their settings based on -confirmed independent targets. Most negative perceptual issues can be resolved with very minor adjustments that hardly represent a deviation. That said, increase in complexities (e.g. your right ear) are more likely to require deviation.

All of my pediatric patients are within 5 RMSE of targets, most within 2.5. But that population probably doesn’t count.

Edited

In reply to @maac

@maac said:

I suggest you to go to France to an audiologist office.

I thank you for your comments and suggestions. What your post brings to mind is something that I see in a number of other posts which is, “you need to find yourself another (or better) audi”. How does one do this? Think about it. Do I solicit recommendations from friends or an online suggestion or review who swears by their audiologist only to find out that most of his customers think he is not competent. In my opinion jumping from one professional to another is not the answer for most people.

As to your second point about and custom molds. I have seen so many different opinions (even between professionals) about these two topics on this forum that I don’t know what to think. My plan right now is to learn the Target software and see if I can fine tune my aids to minimize the cracking sound and increase speech recognition. I have already experimented with the 5 setting variables in the myPhonak app with some success.

I am pleased that you found a professional who was able to help you.

In reply to @dmarr

@dmarr said:

I suggest finding a different mode that doesn’t amplify the floor noise.

Until I begin my tuning I have tried different programs that are installed. None were very satisfactory. However, I have created a custom program in the myPhonak app that is getting closer to solving the problem.

In reply to @cohen

@cohen said:

I suspect mine will not be a popular post.

I find it refreshing, insightful and helpful.

@cohen said:

What works best for me has been counterintuitive, and I’m happy to share ideas if you program.

You’ve peaked my interest and I will definitely be back in touch after I start programming.

@cohen said:

The expert was right–I use different cues to understand speech and some that most folks use I can’t use at all.

Would you care to offer any of these cues?

Thank you for your observations. They are very helpful.

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