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Phonak unveils Lumity hearing aid platform

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In reply to @Z300M

For many (most?) people likely not an issue. However, that 18 hrs would deteriorate over time. Resound claims 30 hrs for their rechargeables. There’s a lot more leeway for deterioration when one starts off with 30 hrs.

In reply to @Z300M

@Z300M said:

I don’t understand why you think that 18hrs/charge is a problem

MDB essentially gave my answer:

@MDB said:

that 18 hrs. would deteriorate over time. Resound claims 30 hrs. for their rechargeables. There’s a lot more leeway for deterioration when one starts off with 30 hrs.

I also had the experience with ReSound that at the end of my warranty period when I requested refurbishment under warranty, they supplied me with ’s that work great but had considerably less battery life than brand new Quattros, something like 25 hours and 27 hours, respectively, which have deteriorated even further in the 3/4 of a year beyond my warranty period that I’ve worn them. Would hate to have the same experience with a Lumity that only starts out with 18 hours on a full charge.

Also, if one wanted to maximize the long-term lifespan of your rechargeable (especially as a spare pair for a newer set of HA’s), one would do the same as for EV’s. Stick to usage between 20% and 80% SOC. With an HA with a 30-hour full-charge life span that’s easy to do. That’s 60% of the maximum runtime (0.60 x 30 hrs.) = 18 hours runtime, with much less degradation of the battery with time. With the Lumity (0.6 x 18 hrs.) = 10.8 hours.

The other thing is didn’t the Marvels or Paradise have a 26-hour runtime. Why is the Life or the Lumity L-RL so poor in comparison? Just a smaller HA body for the sake of appearance = a smaller battery included??? And the 18-hour runtime is probably with NO streaming. I think the Marvel offered a 16-hour battery life with 12 hours a day of streaming. So, if the same applied for the Lumity, 16/26 x 18 = 11-hour runtime if you stream a lot or spend a lot of the day on the phone. Phonak should provide some figures that indicate how much streaming affects Lumity runtime.

I like rechargeables. I’d just like one with plenty in the tank to spare without having to fully charge it each and every day. And also, a rechargeable that can take Texas summer heat (104 to 106 deg F many, many days this summer) without a significant ding to the health of the battery. I think such a rechargeable HA that provides both properties is yet to be invented.

@jim_lewis said:

The other thing is didn’t the Marvels or Paradise have a 26-hour runtime. Why is the Life or the Lumity L-RL so poor in comparison? Just a smaller HA body for the sake of appearance = a smaller battery included??? And the 18-hour runtime is probably with NO streaming. I think the Marvel offered a 16-hour battery life with 12 hours a day of streaming. So, if the same applied for the Lumity, 16/26 x 18 = 11-hour runtime if you stream a lot or spend a lot of the day on the phone. Phonak should provide some figures that indicate how much streaming affects Lumity runtime.

I have Marvels and do a fair bit of streaming through them (2-3 hours of podcasts, 0.5-1hr of calls). Battery life was never an issue when I first got them (mid 2019). Three years later I’ve started having battery life issues, where they might die around 8 or 9 pm. If I get the Lumity at some point soon I’ll be interested to see how the battery life compares.

Edited
@MDB said:

Not sure where you’re getting your 26 hour runtime for Paradise.

In the initial web page splash for the Marvel, a 24-hour battery life was announced for the Marvel and 4 hours of streaming reduced the battery life to 16 hours. All that original PR is gone now but it’s reflected in many early forum threads such as my post here:

https://forum.hearingtracker.com/t/how-phonak-achieved-universal-bluetooth-hearing-aid-connectivity/44491/3?u=jim_lewis (member archive)

If you look now, the datasheets currently available for the Marvel and the Paradise just say each has an expected operating time of 18 hours. So, apparently Phonak has decided it’s better not to claim a 24-hour runtime for folks who never make any phone calls or never stream anything and just come up with an average operating time, which is the same as for the Lumity, 18 hours, as I noted above.

Marvel Rechargeable: https://www.phonakpro.com/content/dam/phonakpro/gc_hq/en/products_solutions/hearing_aid/audeo_marvel/documents/datasheet_audeo_marvel_r.pdf

Paradise Rechargeable: https://www.phonakpro.com/content/dam/phonakpro/gc_hq/en/products_solutions/hearing_aid/audeo_paradise/documents/datasheet_audeo_paradise_r.pdf2

Edit_Update: Actually, in the Phonak article that Abram Bailey started the thread that I referenced at the beginning of this post, Phonak explains how they arrive at their runtime for the Marvels. Here is Fig. 5 from that article and I will provide a direct link to the Hearing Tracker article after the figure. 24 hours with only environmental listening, 16 hours with 4 hours of Bluetooth streaming and 4 hours of TV streaming, 11 hours with 100% of streaming via A2DP and HFP (best audio, handsfree protocol).

image

Link to Hearing Tracker Article written by a Phonak rep: How Phonak Achieved Universal Bluetooth Hearing Aid Connectivity (hearingtracker.com)

In reply to @jim_lewis

And the other thing is that they have a limited number of discharge/recharge cycles (of course that depends on the state of charge before and after charging). I’d rather charge them every other day like I do with my phone, than every single day.

Whatever rechargeable brand that I get in the future, I plan to stick between 30% and 70%, recharging a time or two during the day if necessary (although with a Quattro and new batteries, I could make it through most of my typical daily wearing time on one charge).

Hi Jim, I just got 8 x 200ah 12v Lifepo4 lithium ion phosphate batteries for 2 x 48v 200ah battery banks = approximately 19.2kwh, I plan one more bank…. I have read extensively on this subject, and perhaps 30% to 70% = only 40% usable cycle of battery potential, and IMO this is being rather frugal or over cautious with your charging cycle, most experts that I have read, contend, 20% to 80% charge cycle for Lifepo4 to be the optimal sweet spot, to extend LP battery life, but each to their own…. Not trying to be contentious :+1:Cheers Kev :wink:

Edited

Hi, Kev

The 30% to 70% is just a guesstimate. The problem is no hearing aid app or device that I know of actually measures a battery percentage. It’s all by LED lights ON or OFF. The ReSound charger and Smart 3D app shows 5 LED lights each representing a 20% charge RANGE. Looking at the Lumity manual, there are only 4 LED lights on the RL charger, presumably each representing 25% of range.

So, once you drop to one LED light in the app or on the ReSound charger, that’s just indicating you’re somewhere BELOW 20% charge - and you have no idea where. Also, in charging, once four LED lights go on on the ReSound charger, you’re charging somewhere over 80%, but you have no idea how far. So the “safest” thing to approximate the roughly 20% to 80% range without going too far in either direction and having to watch the Smart 3D app or the charger like a hawk is just wait until you notice you only have 2 LED lights on in the Smart 3D app (or the iOS widget says “40%” charge - same deal on % range). Then you know that you’re charge has dropped somewhere between 20% and 40% - so I picked an average of 30%. Same pyschology in charging. Don’t have to watch Smart 3D app or charger like an hawk. You get a sense of it’s going to take about xx minutes. “Alexa, set a charging timer for xx minutes.” In xx minutes, you see that 3 LED lights have come on. That means you’re somewhere in the 60% to 80% range (but you don’t know exactly where). So, I picked an average of 70% charge.

On average a 40% charge range with ReSound is 30 hours on a full charge x 0.40 = 12 hours. That’s usually more than enough to get me through the day. I’m lazy about putting on my ’s in the morning and don’t care if I take them out an hour or two before I go to bed since it’s annoying to have them on when I floss my teeth, etc. If I want more charge, 10 min in the charger gives me 4 more hours or so of runtime. There are no battery doors to mess with. Just plop them in the charger. They charge. Take them out, they stop charging. I tell Alexa to set a timer. I do other things while they’re charging.

I imagine I could do the same with the Lumity but since it has a shorter runtime per % charge and there is no buffer LEDs below the 25% LED light or above the 75% LED light, it might be harder to be sure one is staying within the 20% to 80% range as my scheme approximates.

P.S. The narrower the charging range the more equivalent full-charge cycles you get out of the lifespan of a Li-ion battery.

The guy from ziphearing gave some more details about the new Phonak hearing aids. There is also a change in the shape of the hearing aid.

The case shape-shifting is nontrivial, and not just for looks. The case likely had to change in order to include an induction coil in the hearing aid for wireless charging.

Look at ziphearing’s image, no more contact points. I also recall that a magnet is involved (likely in the charger) to help snap the hearing aids into the correct orientation. Here’s a link to a description about inductive charging3 for cellphones. Though, I believe it’s the same technology for hearing aids, just smaller.

c1

I looked at product and data information on the Phonak Audeo L. It seems to me that they introduced a new platform and possibly a new chip processor improved over the PRISM chip. But l don’t see any new showings of the ‘new chip’ so it might be the same PRISM chip with the newer firmware? Only the Paradise product info talks about the PRISM and l don’t see any new L chip in phonak professional website.

In reply to @markoo355

Well done Zip Hearing video on the Lumity. Interesting statistics on what their customers buy, especially the statement that 90% of their customers overall (for ’s in general, it seemed) buy rechargeable HA’s vs. the disposable battery-powered ones. It would be interesting to know what’s behind that statistic in terms of customer age and usage needs, etc.

In reply to @grantb5

My Phonak Marvel were 24 hr + just over 2 years ago. The Left if original and loses power more quickly than the one year old right aid. Typically, at the15 hour point it might be down to 10% with the right aid at 25%.
Right now, at the 8 hour point, both aids show 70%.

Data point for battery life on Phonak Audeo p90r. Next week they will be a year old. I’ve worn them some every single day, even through an evil Covid spell and a couple significant surgeries. Most days I wear them -15 hours. Maybe a bit more. Yesterday the left one gave out as I was getting ready for bed. I had been getting the warning tones. A bit over 17 hours, 30 min when the left died. Right was at about 2% left. ~8h 30 min calm, 1 h 37m noisy. ~5h streaming. I feel fairly satisfied with the performance.

WH

That is the reason I sold my M90R’s and P90R’s and kept the P90-312’s … I did not want to be tied to a charger and limited use time. :slight_smile: happy now.
It is very easy to change a battery every 3 or 4 days, and I can do all the streaming and TV watching without worry.

In reply to @WhiteHat

That’s pretty good considering how much streaming you do. People that are on the phone all day and use streaming will need as many hours as they can get. The stats you mention come from a phone app? I’m hoping you don’t have to hook up to the fitting software to get that into.

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