Traveling to see the GOAT of hearing aid fittings for music producers/musicians - worth it?

I think I know what goat means. You can’t be a goat quarterback if all your receivers are sub goates. Or your coach prefers to run the ball every play. If your hearing loss is so bad the goat is limited to how much of a goat he can really be.

Well, the thing about musician programs is, they require a fitting that’s the exact opposite of setting up HAs for speech, speech in noise, feedback management, wind block, etc. Many–most–audis are confounded and maybe a little appalled when a patient comes in and starts telling them to do things to their high end aids that seem bat crap crazy in terms of everything they’ve ever learned (assuming they’ve had no exposure to musician settings. Which aren’t the same as ‘music’ settings.) Doctors, audis, nurses, all encounter patients who think they know more than them, when in fact they don’t. So it’s no wonder it’s hard to get a good music program set up. The audi is 90% of success, the brand the remaining 10%. But to finally get around to my point: a GOAT audi isn’t one who can magically restore hearing beyond the capacity of an aid. But it is one who can match the patient with a functioning program that gets all that’s to be had from the HA’s to help the patient. It’s a skill and an art.

Well I certainly do hope it works out for you.

Interesting to see the pricing. I think the cost is reasonable even edging on low considering that you’re not really buying a fitting so much as you are buying his individualized advice from decades of experience of someone working passionately and prolifically in this specific field and who has a lot of other things going on that you are buying time away from. He’s a busy guy. (Plus his office is probably quoting in CND.)

In terms of whether it is worth it, that depends hugely on you and your own cashflow vs. time. Marshall is a generous guy who is obviously interested in education as he shares his knowledge widely and constantly with other clinicians and patients. I doubt that this is a case of him having a secret sauce that you can only get directly from him–if you have the time to dedicate to reading it, he has likely put all of the information out there. I’ve seen retired music and engineer types on this website who read textbooks and DYI or collaborate heavily with their fitter very successfully and, more than that, enjoy the process. Hobby time during retirement can be very powerful. On the other hand, if you are someone who just wants to get it done and get it done right and get back to your life of doing other things, then it might be very worthwhile to purchase expert advice. Additionally, it is probably valuable having a directly accessible source who likely has piles of practical tips on hearing aid use and expected limitations in the specific environments and interfacing with the specific technologies that musical types use.

Tangentially, how are you music guys protecting your ears?

Interested about the ear protection. My son is an operatic tenor and just 25. Between the music and his genetics, I do worry for his hearing. Do the inexpensive ones from an AuD do the job?

Custom musicians plugs are not so inexpensive these days. But worth him going to see an aud to discuss hearing conservation for sure. The degree to which he will need protection will depend on his exposure volume and time.

@user172 , it would be fantastic IMO if a forum member would go to Toronto for the full Marshall Chasin treatment and then start a thread here with a detailed report, and answer questions about the experience. I have considered making the trip but I live far from Toronto and, at this point, I am only what most people would call a semi-pro musician. It’s probably not worth it for me.

Just throwing it out there, but maybe some forum members could help you by contributing to a crowdfunding effort to make your proposed trip more affordable in return for your report. I’d throw in a few bucks. @jeffrey ? @SpudGunner ? Anyone else interested?

Your current local audi (or a different local audi) might be very interested in working with Dr. Chasin and learning from him about the process of programming for musicians, even to the point of offering you a slight discount on a HA purchase. The specialty skill of learning how to program HAs for musicians might become quite valuable to an audi, especially now as remote programming seems to be coming into its own.

I’m sure it would be beneficial for you to learn DIY programming, but imagine your audi reading a few books and forum posts about audio recording and then trying to come in and produce a quality recording with your recording equipment, compared to you producing the recording with your years of specialized training and years of experience. I would think that that would be a good analogy to you learning DIY programming compared to visiting Dr. Chasin. Some stuff to think about. Good luck.

I respect Marshall Chasin. He knows his stuff. However, If you’re new to hearing aids, I will just about guarantee you won’t like what he does. I agree with those who say you should get used to hearing aids before going to him. Nowadays Widex is not the only aid that’s good for professional musicians.

thanks for volunteering me and spud for giving money to another forum member. Somehow I get the feeling of being cadged into something.

No, I was merely offering an opinion.

@jeffrey , Crowdfunding was probably a dumb idea on my part. I apologize for suggesting it.

@paul.cleary.nz - I’m trialing Widex Moment sheer - newest model. Do any hearing aids have frequency response below 250 or above 8,000? would love to trial them if yes,

Some hearing aids claim higher frequencies. I think Signia might claim up to 12,000 Hz, but they all trail off dramatically after 4000 Hz. Hearing aids do not have flat responses. It’s the physics of balanced armature receivers. If you need higher powered receivers, it’s even worse.

Sorry user172 I don’t know of any hearing aids with such frequency response as you ask about.
After I read the article I referred to in my previous post, I got my audiologist to remove the standard Music program on my Widex Moments as I thought it was contributing little to my listening to music (I just turn the volume up on my Bose QC25 headphones, although I have thought of getting a graphic equaliser so I can compensate for my hearing loss at high frequencies)
This forum has historical discussions (threads) from hard-of-hearing musicians and what techniques/devices they used to get a better experience when listening to their specific music genre / playing their own music. It was interesting to search out the threads and read them.

@user172 said:

Do any hearing aids have frequency response below 250 or above 8,000? would love to trial them if yes,

I previousely informed you regarding Oticon More.
They are rated @100 to -±9600KHZ.
HA’s are not designed to reach higher frequencies.
If you can hear above 8k, you probably don’t need hearing aids!
Here’s a link3 to Oticon More Tech Data sheet.

@MDB said:

Hearing aids do not have flat responses. It’s the physics of balanced armature receivers.

Actually BA’s are fully capable of very high fidelity output.
Etymotic ER 4 series are single BA’s, and rated at 20 to 20khz!
Of course, the way the BA’s are deployed in hearing aids would make it impossible to achieve anything remotely close, but the receivers are not the limiting factors.
Imagine if you could get wired hearing aids, with custom molds, and plug them into the headphone jack of your stereo, or even a smartphone with a high end DAC!