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Music professional - How to shut off compression (Widex)

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Sorry to be omnipresent - I also have custom earmolds which are a big help for me because of my severe-profound hearing loss. They helped me a lot.

In reply to @Willheim

@Willheim said:

I have also found the music program to be rubbish and I never use it. I have asked my audiologist the same question about compression, as most musicians have. It seems to be strapped across every band.

From what I remember she said the compression straps across all frequency bands and could be lowered or raised.

Oh yeah, out-of-the-box that Music program has bonkers compression. It may be a crowd pleaser but it is surreal. To address the compression, I’ve had my audi lower the gain on soft sounds in the Music program and that’s made a world of a difference but, based on testing, I’ll have it opened up even more. When your audi is adjusting the gains on the level bands, the table can be expanded to show inter-tier compression ratios and fitting target ratios - which makes the fitting a lot easier for this application.

I’ve finally had a chance to test programs and settings at an orchestral concert with my Sheer, switching back-and-forth between Puresound and Music programs. With my semi-open tulip domes there were still some issues with the music program… The processing time of 2.5ms with the music program did have the problem of slurring the sibilants (due to my bunny-slope to moderate loss at the upper end) and the inherent delay between the low and mind/high frequencies, and whatever comb filtering there was, albeit relatively marginal, didn’t help. The Music program’s lack of protections that kick in with PureSound is a big difference - as would not sitting by the bases or timpani :smirk: . Of course, YMMV depending on domes/mold design, hearing loss profile, etc.

When you say,

@Willheim said:

I have found the Pure Sound preset useless.

…I’m wondering what have the issues been for you? It’s been my go-to, set as the default on power up and the basis for the Zen programs.

You know, my experience and prblems with my hearing are not comparable. I have profound hearing loss, very poor word recognition, bilateral meniere’s disease comorbid with diplacusis disharmonica, which makes one ear hear a different pitch than the other, rendering all music unlistenable.

Over the years it has abated somewhat, but not enough to continue my career. I do find Widex the superior company, and the sound assist is a nice adjunct. But I tried it out in a restaurant that wasn’t crowded and it still was an epic fail, couldn’t understand anything, hypercusis on clanging pots or ice…

I am returning both the moments and the assist and carry on with my evokes and Oticon More ’s. Widex is superior, but in my case the difference is too marginal for the large expense. And it appears that I will be getting two cochlear implants soon.

I miss writing, mixing, composing. This disease declared itself in 48 hours and erased the previous 30 years of my life’s work. I couldn’t hear any pitches for two years. Now it is much better.

Oof.

I don’t know if it’s the same with Widex, it might be since they’re owned by the same company, but in the case of Signias you have to pick a different fitting formula from manufacturers default to get advanced compression settings, and from there you can disable it entirely.
DSLv5 fitting is also way more conservative when it comes to compression and switching to it was a game changer for me.

YES! I know! It aggravates the heck out of me that compression bands are tied to gain. And nearby frequencies. Knowing that there is a workaround for Signias is very interesting to me. Thank you for sharing that. And I am sure it is a gaime changer. In a mix of my own stuff when I was a composer it’s sweeping a parametric across the band frequencies, selecting the bandwidth, adjusting the low and high pass filters and limiter - takes a few minutes and is super user friendly interface.

Huh. Signia. But is the different fitting from default easily accessed from their programming software ?

@Willheim said:

Huh. Signia. But is the different fitting from default easily accessed from their programming software ?

Yes, easily, you can change it from initial fitting page.
I found that out because I was exploring what is done differently in the “musician” program (it sounded more detailed and “hi-res” for the lack of better word, I could hear the tiniest details).
I couldn’t find anything and only after switching from default AXFit/IXFit, it kinda switched into manual mode and revealed some options for different processing of sound (and that was the difference), that plus detailed compression settings page was added.

In reply to @Reginald

@Reginald said:

DSLv5 fitting is also way more conservative when it comes to compression and switching to it was a game changer for me.

I tried all available fitting formulas with my Oticon More and v5 gives me the most natural music experience, especially for my guitars. It is punchier, crisper, more dynamic, and gives me the impression that my guitars resonate right.

Yeah, switching to DSLv5 made me realise what I was missing and what I can pull out of my , a world of difference. It seems to be particularly suitable for people with a steep high frequency loss.

Very useful information, tnx. I’ve got the Widex 440 since a couple of months, main goal was to listen to my vinyl record collection, so music, and via speakers, not streaming music. I tried several: Oticon, Phonak and Amplifon. All returned within the trial period because they were disappointing. Music sounds reasonable but got the feeling that ik can be improved. Problem is that finding the right settings require a lot of travel to and from the audiologist. I’m reasonable comfortable with computer programms and would like to adjust those settings. So I need the Compass software (found a link and for 20 dollars this can be downloaded) but I also need some hardware to connect the Widex to the computer I guess. Where can I order that part? Hope Mikehoopes and others in this tread will keep us informed on best settings. Thanks in advance.

Hi, welcome to the forum.

I’m on a similar quest. The main improvement for music listening I’ve found are to have the audiologist flatten the gain settings. From the factory, the lower level sounds are given more gain by default, which basically makes for a compression effect.

The music mode has a pros and cons, no feedback and limiting are the pros. The con is the delay, which can have “slurred sibilants” effect - more an issue for classical and jazz. This slurring effect is also more/less of an issue based on your loss and slope, where more of both mean less slurring effect. There’s also a delay between non-boosted frequencies and boost frequencies which can be a curious thing to hear. This is also going to be affected by your loss and how closed-off your domes are.

So far, my listening solutions are…

  1. Flatten those gain levels
  2. Use purseound
  3. Turn off feedback suppression in puresound.

Works pretty well, especially with classical live performances.

As to , I think I’m about start DIY too. Yes, trips to audiologist for incremental improvements are tiresome. That and, when it comes to music requirements, many audiologists aren’t trained or experienced to support clients like us. If only they had even just a Music Lovers cheat sheet!

In reply to @Vinyl_Album_33

Welcome to the forum, great your willing to give a go, it’s all pretty easy enough, no need to buy software, for the Widex moment onwards you’ll need the Noahlink wireless programming device, easily available on eBay and Amazon, do read the user guides for programming as it’s very helpful for setting up the first time.
Some useful links for music and .

https://grandpianopassion.com/category/hearing-music/7

https://musicandhearingaids.org/6

In reply to @user715

Thanks for your reply and help. I’m using the open domes, I will order the one vent dome’s as described in this thread. The PureSound is my default when the app starts, but I can’t change much: volume, low (which doesn’t bring much change) the midst and high frequencies. Can I turn off feedback suppression? Will have a closer look. There is a whole new generation users, who want to control more settings.Therefore I’m trying to gain access to the settings because there is only one person that hears what sounds the best and that is the end user. You are right: not only using the standard settings but trying to bring improvements by thinking and working out of the box. Kind regards, Chris

@Vinyl_Album_33 said:

The PureSound is my default when the app starts, but I can’t change much: volume, low (which doesn’t bring much change) the midst and high frequencies. Can I turn off feedback suppression?

Yeah, the apps are generic, the same features just a different layout: Chose the mode, overall level, tweak 3 bands, save presets.

The first mode on startup and sequence when stepping through modes is set using the software/adapter. Flattening the gain and disabling feedback suppression are also set via Compass/Noahlink. When switching domes the hearing aid should be updated the software/adapter.

Worth trying the tulip domes too. I’ve found them very comfortable. Kinda halfway between open and vented.

Thanks for your help, will order more different domes in order to test/try. Great to have received so much info and links for digging deeper into the program/software. This is a very useful forum.

Edited

Just discovered this thread today. I currently have the SmartRic 440 and the Philips 9030’s and both Compass 4.7 and the current Hearsuite program. I just could not make the Philips sound “right” for my guitar playing. Never knew how accurate some bends were, warbling/distortion of higher notes, etc. The Widex out of the box using the Widex rationale worked so much better, even the universal program. The audi I have doesn’t seem that sharp and I’ve slowly done some on the Widex. He could not get the road noise issue under control for me and overall the Widex was just too loud. And stared with vented sleeve domes which would not stay in and I’m not using the tulips with better results but not perfect. I recently ran Compass, set adaptation to 3 out of 4 and then tuned the transport program to maximum noise reduction. Road noise is gone (was able to control it with the mid-freq equalizer set to -5 or -6 prior to this change).

I’m still not entirely happy with music, which seems to lack some low or mid freq content when I play with my trio (rock and blues). The low freq stabilization is checked in the Universal program so no gains below 800 hz are provided where the music program adds gain from 125 hz on so maybe the music program is the better starting point…but strangely the soft noise gain jumps by 10 db at 8khz. Seems like a lot of high freq in the music program and I think I’m going to lower this strange 10 gain jump at 8 khz. My audi just is not responsive about that (sort of clueless) and it’s a 50 mile round trip for me everytime he makes a slight adjustment and then I wait another 2 weeks because it didn’t do anything. I have found a musician oriented audi up in LA I’m considering since I’d like to try earmolds but I don’t really know what I need exactly and for musicians, earmolds for HA and IEM’s are her specialty. And I don’t want any occlusal effect.

Widex had an advantage of higher sampling rate than industry standard, and that pays off for music. Audiologist are trained for speech. Luckily, my audio is a short walk but there’s no help from them for music, I come in with requests to try based on my testing, experience, and looking into the options. Sometimes they have to call Windex support to figure out how to do things in the software, which makes more compelling. A music specialist audi is worth their weight in gold! A trip to LA at least.

Yes I do plan to visit her for at least an eval that can be applied to the full support package. Not that expensive really and worth the $400. for 90 days of dialing things in. The earmolds are a bit pricey from her at $500. but I think I’m paying for all her experience and satisfied customers, most of them professional musicians much much better than I am, lol.

Still trying to get a local Audi to help me because with the small changes I’ve made things are not that bad. No more road noise, everyday hearing is more comfortable and music is still very good. Trying to resolve dome and earwax issues right now. I can’t do the former without first solving the latter, lol.

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