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Kirkland KS10 Programmability Questions

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Edited

I have the KS10. I have an appointment next week for a hearing test and a trial run of Philips 9040. I’ll also get some changes made to my KS10s as, at a minimum, I want good backup .

This all started when I learned about the openness of Oticon hearing aids. I started a thread, which eventually morphed into KS10 technical questions. Volusiano has been helping me but doesn’t have KS10s, and suggested that I start a KS10 thread to hopefully get participation from experienced KS10 users. So here I am. For reference you can see our conversation in the thread titled “How to Trial Oticon More”, starting with Post #78.

I’ve always been frustrated with the way that the KS10s focus and seriously attenuate ambient sounds when in the Automatic mode. I would like to hear more of the world. I learned in my Oticon thread of the Philips/Costco HA that, while not the same as Oticon, has some of the Oticon openness landscape. So I’m going to try the 9040.

I got to wondering if the KS10 sound can be opened up, when I’m not focused on speech and just want to hear more of the world.

Specifically I would like to know if, in the Automatic mode, background noise can be brought up so that, for example, I don’t walk around Costco feeling like I have cotton stuffed in my ears. I don’t need optimum speech recognition in this sort of setting, because I’m likely not talking to anybody.

For those situations where I really do need great speech in noise, such as restaurants, I have one manual program - speech in noise. This shuts down ambient noise, which is fine in this sort of setting. I also have Roger Select for really noisy speech environments.

So, can the KS10 Automatic mode be programmed to be more open and let me hear the sounds of the world better? If not, Valusiano has suggested adding a music or outdoors manual program and seeing how that works.

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@Torbill said:

I got to wondering if the KS10 sound can be opened up, when I’m not focused on speech and just want to hear more of the world.

I have both Phonak and Oticon.

Even with all features like NoiseBlock etc turned off, I still hear ‘more’ with Oticon.

Our hearing loss is very different tho.

Yes,within each subprogram of the Automatic program settings can be altered for the microphone directionalilty, noise control and impulse control, as well as settings for wind noise and feedback. This has to be done with the Target Programming software. The hearing aid specialist at Costco can do it. If you want to learn to do it yourself, go to the section of the forum.

I have had the KS10 hearing aids for about two years now. The default program is Automatic Premium. I certainly have no sensation of “cotton stuffed in my ears”. I hear birds tweet and all sounds surrounding me when outdoors.
However, every morning I select the Clarity program, reduce the volume to -1, and start my day.

In reply to @Zebras

It seems as though you’ve already walked this road!

Yes, I wouldn’t expect the Phonak to be adjustable to the point where it would be as open as Oticon. I just want something more natural than what I have, without totally messing up speech recognition.

I learned a new word to research; Noiseblock. I presume that KS10 has a similar feature under a different name. Noiseblock led me this:

Are you a noise hater? | Audiology Blog7

Noise tolerance can be a result of either personal preference or just how we feel at the time. Audéo Paradise 90 level hearing aids have a new personalized noise cancelling feature so hearing aid wearers can adjust the strength to their preference in...

If I understand, Noiseblock turns down fixed background noise, such as a chainsaw in the neighbor’s yard or the fans and other noise in Costco. You turned it off.

Did this mess up speech recognition? If not I’ll try to find out what KS10 calls it and have them turn it off next week.

I see from the linked article that there are other noise management features with the Phonak. Did you change any of them?

In reply to @MDB

I’ve been wearing for a dozen years, have had several models, am technically inclined, yet I’ve never paid much attention to the details of how they work. I would just go in, take the test, buy the new KS model. They would tune them to my loss and I would go on my way - rinse, repeat when a new model promised improvements.

Now my hearing is getting worse and I need to learn more about the technicalities of how they work. would give me more of an opportunity to get the adjustments exactly right. Also, I’ve waited over a month for my upcoming appointment (crazy) and if I could twist the knobs myself it would be a lot more efficient. So yes, I’m interested in DIY.

Subprograms: Right or wrong I picture Automatic mode as a group of fixed subprograms and some sort of supervisory function that selects the best subprogram for the current listening environment. According to what you wrote each subprogram can be individually adjusted. And there must also global adjustments, too, such as “Noiseblock”…?? The subprograms are things like Speech in Noise, Music, Outdoors, etc.?? If I have this right, can you tell me where I can find a list of subprograms for the KS10?

To fully access the subprograms of Autosense for KS10 you’d need to get a NoahLink Wireless and the Target Software. (To get further info on this, go to Categories, scroll down to "Muted categories) and the click Hearing Aid Self Fitting () To just get a gist of what’s available, go to the Phonak Pro site and look up an Audeo Paradise 90. The subprograms available are basically the same as for KS10 but they go by different names.

In reply to @MDB

@MDB said:

(To get further info on this, go to Categories, scroll down to "Muted categories) and the click Hearing Aid Self Fitting (DIY)

I had forgotten that the section is a bit difficult to find. I get here via this bookmarked link Hearing Aid Self-Fitting and Adjusting [DIY] - Hearing Aid Forum - Active Hearing Loss Community
Without the link I found that I had to go home/community/hearing loss forum/all categories/hearing aid self fitting
I think I found my way here originally via a google search. I just tried that with a few search terms and the DIY forum was a bit far down the list most times.

In reply to @MDB

Found section no problem. Could not find a way in to Phonak Pro I must be doing something wrong. I would really like to see the list of subprograms.

Noahlink is affordable. I’m not clear on whether or not the Philips 9040 programming wherewithal is available, but I’ll bet that it is. First thing is to trial the 9040 next week.

In reply to @member6

I’ve never used Easy Line as I think it’s useless. But I just read that there’s a new version and I loaded it and it seems better, actually seems to not drop connection. No Clarity program, but there is a Music program that I’m trying at the moment, that may be closer to what I’d like.

Can you describe what the Clarity program does, so far as how it handles background sounds and why it’s called “Clarity”?

Edited

I assume Clarity would make speech “more coherent and intelligible”.
Background sounds seem to be the same using either Clarity or Automatic Premium.
On the subject of background noise, I was going to say I could hear faint bird peeping outside my windows with double paned glass. Then I realized I was watching a web cam showing an owl nest box. My hearing aids are my computer speakers.
The only hearing aids I will ever consider in the future are ones that will connect directly to my computer via Bluetooth.

There are many things you can do to minimize noise block with your KS10 aids.

Besides turning off noise block, echo block etc you can turn autosense off. Then force the aids to stay in a program like calm situations that doesn’t have microphone directionality.

Those aids are very flexible. Fitters typically don’t want to get far away from first fit .

Comparing your KS10 and my Phonak P90 hearing aids…hope this helps. I believe that your hearing aids are somewhat the same as mine.

I found out that with my Paradise P90 hearing aids, if I make a custom program using autosense, and save it the saved program is no longer automatic…they are dumb hearing aids locked in the program I chose.

I think that the KS10’s are the same.

But why did I choose my hearing aids if I’m not going to use them in auto sense mode?

Another thought…My audiologist had to select the programs on my hearing aids from that list. They aren’t all active. I ask him what he has on the hearing aids when I see him…

And…I keep upgrading the App for my hearing aids. The APP is much more useful now than when I first downloaded it. Plus–when I see my audiologist I ask him whether Phonak has upgraded the operating system on the chips in my hearing aid.

Using clarity makes a great difference with my hearing aids. The Dynamic setting does too! I believe it changes compression.

An example…I was standing trying to hear a neighbour while my wife and I and the neighbour had a conversation…He has hearing aids. I couldn’t hear a thing. We live in line with an airport runway. Planes are right overhead. And low. My neighbour and wife had a great conversation, and we were about 3 feet apart. I couldn’t hear a thing. My neighbour could with his hearing aids. I saw my audiologist and had him make changes.

The Easy Line Remote application on my Android phone has five programs listed for my KS10’s:
Automatic Premium
Restaurant
Music
TV
Clarity

In reply to @Raudrive

I see that now. I’m probably on the wrong path. Rather than jump to Philips right away I need first to better understand what the KS10 can do. The new Easyline app actually gives me some control. And I need to get a Noahlink - there are just too many knobs to twist to go back and forth with scheduled appointments.

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