I am not sure if this is relevant but in general electronics one thing some Sony audio products were noted for was their built-in software-driven parametric equaliser where the owner of the product could work through a menu on the LCD screen of the product to do precise adjustment of the lows, mids and high frequencies of the sound output.
Sony would be bringing this experience and expertise to their hearing aids.
(Examples of these products were portable CD players and MP3 walkmans)
The hearing aid group has had a self-fitting hearing aid approved by the , essentially positioning the firm for when the upcoming over-the-counter sales channel open – but CEO Eric Bernard won’t say if this is the plan.
This article makes it clear that WSA/Signia had an up and running, ready to go before they even announced their partnership with Sony.
The article further goes on to explain that WSA was seeking a “multi-channel strategy”, i.e. a way to keep OTC hearing aids under a brand that was distinct from any of their brands which sell prescription hearing aids through audiologists. They seemed to be concerned about underlining the relationship between their hearing aid companies and the audiologists by introducing a product which audiologists might see as promoting competition for their services. In contrast, from their POV, WSA is trying to develop an outreach to the 70% of the hearing impaired market who are not now buying hearing aids. OTC devices are their way of getting those people to begin using hearing aids earlier and eventually moving on to more sophisticated instruments, which would be accompanied by the services of an audiologist since hearing loss is progressive. Their emphasis on “form-factor”, i.e. the ear bud design also speaks to their interest in reaching a larger audience who are put off by the stigma of wearing hearing aids.
In the article, WSA says that “The hearing aids we want to bring to the OTC market will be first class hearing aids, using to be self fitting.” That seems to describe their current OTC products, both of which seem to be existing Signia hearing aids adapted for self-set up. The CRE-E10 could be either their Active or Active Pro, but given that the Pro is recommended for users with mild to moderate hearing loss and the Active is not, it would seem that the E10 is a modified Active Pro since it too is recommended for users with mild to moderate hearing loss.
So, hats off to those who saw this for what it is right off the bat - Signia hearing aids using Sony branding and marketing channels to reach a larger audience.
This article makes is clear that WSA/Signia had an OTC up and running, ready to go before they even announced their partnership with Sony.
Precisely what Sonova is doing with their soon to be released Sennheiser all day clear aid, which was previously released outside of the US as the Sonova Hellogo long before Sonova partnered with Sennheiser.
Sonova just using the good audio reputation of Sennheiser to market a product Sennheiser had little to do with developing.
It comes in a fairly compact box. Plainly marked in the front it said “FDA registered medical device”. As I was paying for it, I asked the Best Buy sales clerk about the return policy. He told me “15 days”, so I asked to speak with the manager. In my state, hearing aids are allowed a 15 day trial period by law. When I explained to the manager that a 15 day return period for hearing aids is illegal by state law, she explained that 15 days is Best Buy policy but that she would “work with me” and would comply with state law. She thought that perhaps these are considered “personal sound amplification devices” and as such are not subject to the legally required trial period. Obviously the Sony packaging itself tells her that she is wrong on this point. Also obvious is that she is not very familiar with this product and that Best Buy has provided little or no training regarding hearing aid sales. When I got home and logged onto the Sony website where I learned that hearing aids purchased on line directly from Sony come with a 45-day trial period.
So, as it turns out, Best Buy allows a 60-day return period for hearing aids. This is plainly stated in the return policy statement on their website. Anyone buying these hearing aids should come prepared to show the return policy on their phone to the Best Buy staff.
Did you did you notice, or have an issue, with the long latency (12ms) of the E10?
I was very interested in OTC, especially the E10, but what’s kept me trying the E10 OTC are their spec of 12ms for latency. That’s something I’ve found to be a specific issue for me. With HA in the 5-8ms range I found myself not looking at faces as people speak to avoid the disconcerting effect, and the artificial sounding reverb/robotic sound in an echo-ey place (car, tiled room, etc.) Have you noticed similar sound effects with the E10?
Having had a chance to think about this latency issue and having had the chance to continue to wear the E-10’s for about 3 weeks now, I can comment that I have experienced some of this reverb effect - recently in a car with 4 people and 2 different conversations, it was particularly noticeable. I also have noticed it to a lesser extent in a tiled room and other similar rooms with bad acoustics + no sound absorption (no rugs, drapes, etc)
Isuspect that it’s not as frequent or as bad as you may have experienced with other hearing aids with latency because these are not hearing aids, so there is occlusion due to (click sleeves in Sony/Signia terminology). As a result of the occlusion, all of the sound that the ear hears is delivered at the same moment through the receiver in the canal. In other words, there is no contamination from normal sounds arriving from outside the canal at one moment and processed sound from the same source arriving through the hearing aids 12 ms later as would be the case with open fit hearing aids.
Thanks for the feedback! Good to hear they’re working out for you.
The car was the worst for me too. My voice direct in left (1st) and bounces from the front (2nd) and side window (3rd), and same again in the right (4th, 5th, 6th) of which the right was also delayed w/ made for awful ‘I am a robot in a canyon’ sound effect.
While there are open some choices for the E10, but you bring up a good point - you can just choose closed.
The car situation is interesting. I’m in my car almost every day. Today with 2 grandkids, ages 8 and 10, for a total of 1.5 hours. No problem. When I’m with my wife, no problem. The situation last week was unique in my experience so far. Four gregarious adults, voices raised somewhat due to competing conversations. Small car (Prius). No problem listening to a car radio. So it’s not a regular problem but it obviously does happen occasionally under certain circumstances…
As for domes, the E10 comes with ore-installed and a card with half a dozen other closed domes in other sizes in case the ones which come standard don’t fit your ears. I can’t find vented domes on the Sony website, but they are available fir the Signia Active Pro, which is physically the same product, so it is possible to fit these with an open fitting. But clearly they’re being sold as a closed fit device as the recommended use.
As for these devices working for me, I’ll say that I love the sound. Signia’s Own Voice Processor (OVP) is superb. This is the best sound of my own voice since being fitted with closed domes years ago. The overall sound is normal and natural as well, also the best hearing experience I’ve had. And they do reasonably well in almost all kind’s of noise. So, I’m sold on the Signia’s sound processing. I also find that I prefer the earbud style and love their portable charging system.
But . . . I still find myself asking to have words repeated occasionally. Clarity of speech is the most important thing, so this is a big negative, Hiwever, this is to be expected because my hearing loss is up to 70 db in the high frequency range. This hearing aid is only designed for mild to moderate hearing loss, i.e. up to 55 db. So, while the E10 improves my hearing, it isn’t a complete fix.
I am now looking at the Signia Pure 7ax. This instrument is designed to meet the needs of people with mild to profound hearing loss, so it has the range to meet my needs better. In addition, it has Signia’s new AX platform, which processes speech and background noise separately before putting them back together - just like what they do with multiple movie sound tracks. Sounds great in concept. I’m hoping to get the same great sound while improving speech clarity. Great charging system with this one as well. Cost is $3500 with my insurance.
Then, to drop the other shoe . . . The Rexton Bicore R-LI, which is sold at Costco, is simply a rebadged Signia Pure 7ax. The two are identical in every way, something which I verified with a Rexton audiologist on their helpline. Cost at Costco is $1599. And one of the Costco’s near me has an audiologist whom I like. So, I have an appointment there in a few weeks to start the process towards a 6 month trial.
Hello billgem, I am new to hearing aids with only three weeks experience with the 7 AX’s. I have to tell you I never imagined that everything would sound so good. I have been in some really difficult environments (screaming kids in a loud restaurant) and was able to easily carry on a conversation. Since I haven’t had any other ’s I can’t make any comparisons, but I am totally impressed with what I’m hearing so far. Difficult situations as above or listening to jazz on my tricked out hi-fi system are just a joy that I haven’t been able to appreciate for years.
Best of luck!
Thanks, @user829. I am scheduled to be fitted with a pair of Rexton Bi-Cores in a week. I hope that my experience is as good as yours with the 7-AX. Your report is very encouraging. If the Rextons don’t do it for me, I’ll give the Signia 7-AX’s a go just in case there is some difference between the 2 brands. I really like what I’ve read about the dual processor in the AX platform and the own voice processing (OVP).
Thanks for a great review @billgem I currently have Amplifon (Oticon I believe) ampli-energy R 3 aids which I quite like. I am thinking about a pair of CRE E-10s specifically for music streaming and TV watching, as a break from the R 3s. I know the CRE E-10s connect primarily to iPhones via (not full Bluetooth).
Has anyone found an MFi hearing aid Bluetooth adapter to connect to their TV or Audio System, and if so, do they work, in terms of sound quality and acceptable lag?
On a side note, I don’t think the CRE E-10s are officially available in Australia yet. I might be in for a bit of a wait.
I contacted WS Audiology in Australia and was informed that the Sony cre-e10 will be marketed in Australia as the Vibe Go and should be released later this year.
The Sony cre-c10 is already available in Australia as the Vibe Air.
Doctor Cliff summarized his review by saying that the CRE-E10’s are pretty much on par with othe over-the-counter hearing but that you can’t get results as good as what you would get with a prescription hearing aid. Duh!
Indeed he did but he contradicted that summation at least twice earlier on in the video where he suggests better results were achieved with other devices. Beats me!
True again, just like Hear Advisor’s contradictory findings were only on a dummy’s ear.
Still, it would be good to read an explanation for this significant discrepancy in findings.
As for Dr Cliff, I don’t know. He is very skilled. He manages to do all of the following at the same time:
Be likeable,
Appear knowledgeable,
Stay onside with all of the manufacturers,
Review and sell otc aids whilst always recommending proper fitting by a professional (which in most cases means avoiding otc aids).
The results from Hearing Advisor are highly suspicious. Especially when comparing E-10 to Stylettos AX. The sample tracks of Stylettos have background soundscape pushed forward, BUT, it’s the main feature of AX platform, that you can manipulate it!
Also, Sony’s App is just another recolour of Signia’s, and I really doubt that they changed something software wise.
