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Oticon More 1 vs Phonak Lumity Life L90

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Edited

Yesterday, I was contacted by a local Phonak clinic and offered a free trial of the Lumity Life L90. I thought, “Why not?” Here are the contenders:

  1. Oticon More 1: I’ve been wearing them for about 2 years now. Apart from speech in noisy and challenging situations, I am quite happy with them. I wear custom molds.
  2. Phonak Lumity Life L90: Fitted to my latest , wearing them with domes.

Upon putting the Lumity on, my initial reaction was that the Lumity sounded artificial compared to the More. We adjusted the general program to make it sound more natural (the mids and highs were overamplified in my left ear). Additionally, we crafted a dedicated music program.

While discussing the trial period and when I should return the , we determined that it would be best to return to the clinic in the first week of January and start the trial period then. I will do so, gather my observations, and report back here. However, the couple of hours I had the Lumity have already given me some clues on what is to come (we’ll see):

  1. The Oticon paradigm is obvious. With my More, I hear a lot of life’s background and busy sounds. With the Lumity, I noticed more attenuation of background noise.
  2. While talking to the hearing care professional outside his clinic, on a very busy street, I was able to easily comprehend what he was saying. We did the same test with my More, and I struggled to keep up with the conversation.
  3. I enjoyed being able to have a less taxing conversation in a noisy place. However, I noticed that it has a cost. The Lumity comes with a lot of filters and attenuations that were a bit distracting to me. I also felt like sometimes I should’ve been listening to sounds, but my brain was getting nothing, which was a bit odd. The hearing care professional mentioned that it’s possible to adjust the intensity of those filters, which we will do in January.
  4. (edit) I’ve been dealing with tinnitus for decades now. I supose I’ve favored Oticon over Phonak (open vs speech-centered) in the past years because it helps me cope with that. Background noise masks some of my tinnitus and distracts me from my own head.
  5. The Lumity’s dedicated music program sounded alright. I didn’t have my guitars to test or a lot of time to listen to music, but the Phonak’s out-of-the-box music implementation sounded pleasing and way better than Oticon’s stock MyMusic.

After a couple of hours, when I returned the Lumity, my brain was already getting used to the new sound profile. The contrast when I put my More back on was not that significant anymore, though I still had the impressoin that my More sounded more natural, warm, and rich than the Lumity.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to the proper 5-day Lumity trial in January! I’ll report back.

17 people in this conversation41 min readJump to latest
Edited

Many thanks for your feedback.
Are you going to trial the Oticon Real 1? (because, I suppose Real is the Lumity’s challenger).
You meant Phonak Lumity Life L90 (not P90)!

@e1405 said:

Lumity sounded artificial

That was my first impression too when wearing Phonak Nathos Nova M.

@Baltazard said:

You meant Phonak Lumity Life L90 (not P90)!

Absolutely! I corrected that in my post. Thanks.

At this point I dot not have plans to trial Oticon Real. I guess I am going to skip this generation and wait for the next.

@e1405 said:
  • I wear custom molds.
  • Phonak Lumity Life L90: Fitted to my latest audiogram, wearing them with domes.

May I suggest you order custom molds for your Phonak L90’s. I realize this would change your start date but You’re already doing an apple to oranges comparison between the Mores and the Lumity aids - now you are adding the added difference between molds and domes.

Everything you have mentioned about differences between these aids is exactly what I experienced moving from Mores to Phonaks P90’s…

Good Luck

David

Can you get a longer trial period? Five days does not seem long enough to really get acclimated to the changed sound. I think it takes a few visits with the audiologist to get things right for you and that will take at least a month or longer. I went with Phonak for a different reason, so I could use Bluetooth to connect to my laptops and because I wanted a direct connection with their Roger line of receivers.

In reply to @berettadm1

@berettadm1 said:

May I suggest you order custom molds for your Phonak L90’s.

Yes, custom molds do make a big difference (at least in my case). It is something I will talk to the hearing care professional about when I go back in the first week of January.

@raylock1 said:

Can you get a longer trial period? Five days does not seem long enough to really get acclimated to the changed sound.

Yes, another dead-on observation. However, I am afraid that five days is what I will get here where I live.

I suppose a third valid point would be performing … which won’t be possible either. I went to a Sonova-owned clinic and, believe it or not, they do NOT do REM at that location.

I’ll follow your observations with interest. I just started with Oticon Real 1s, replacing OPN S1s. The first thing I noticed was what seemed to be a dampening of annoying background noise vs the old ones. The audiologist said she had a pair of Starkey Genesis A!s I could test for a week or so. I think I’ll give those a shot just to hear what another builder produces. I’ve used Oticon for 25 years so it’s very much a known entity to me.

My only beef with the Real 1s is that whatever Oticon engineer thought it was smart to cut the volume to the lowest level with an incoming/outgoing phone call and make volume adjustments to the call only from the “ringer” volume buttons on my Iphone needs the following: Cultural re-education, followed by a sound flogging, the stocks with the rotten tomato treatment, followed perhaps by some drawing and quartering, and finally ending with the old head-on-the-pike trick. That is the single dumbest thing I’ve ever seen in HA programming in 25 years and I let Oticon’s help desk people know it.

When I go in for my followup visit in about 10 days, I’ll tell the audiologist the Real 1s work just fine, let me try the Starkeys, and let’s get the Oticon professional liaison on the phone and let me ream them out via another channel.

Can I get used to it? Sure. Do I want to? Heck no. It’s inconvenient as all get out. Why let me answer a call by pressing my hearing aids, but force me to use the phone, which may be in the other room, to adjust the volume. DUH!!!

With kindest personal regards, I remain sincerely ….

@eliotb said:

My only beef with the Real 1s is that whatever Oticon engineer thought it was smart to cut the HA volume to the lowest level with an incoming/outgoing phone call and make volume adjustments to the call only from the “ringer” volume buttons on my Iphone needs the following: Cultural re-education, … That is the single dumbest thing I’ve ever seen in HA programming in 25 years and I let Oticon’s help desk people know it.

You should blame your audi instead of Oticon because that’s a programmable feature in the Oticon Genie 2 software that your audi could have EASILY adjusted for you if you did let her know. The Oticon support people should have been able to point you (or your audi) to that direction as well. If they’re just ignorant on this option as your audi is, then OK both of them may deserve all the sound flogging and what-else-have-you that you have in mind for them.

Below is the screenshot of the Phone settings. In the “M(ic) relative to phone” setting, if your audi has chosen the leftmost value, and she must have done that because the default is the normal level with the arrow pointing down to where it should be, then you will get the lowest mic volume level when you stream using the phone.

It shouldn’t just be for when you’re on the phone, though. It should be like that for when you’re streaming, even watching videos or listening to music on the phone with your HAs. But if you don’t stream on your phone often enough except for phone calls, it may seem like that only happens when you’re on the phone specifically.

image

Hey, many thanks. The Audi did say she is not terribly familiar with the Oticon software, and I did not notice the issue until long after I’d left her office. I was holding this for the next visit as I knew I had another shot or two at resolving it. I’ll work with her and the Oticon professional phone reps to sort it out. I’ll take a print out of this screen with me to help.

In large measure most of the phone streaming I do is with phone calls. I might listen to a short music clip if I’m wandering around Facebook or Youtube via my phone vs my Ipad, but it’s not all that often. Hence I’m very sensitive to phone call issues.

If I’ve unfairly maligned the Oticon folks, I hereby eat my words. But I’ll wait to formally swallow until after I’ve worked with the Audi to attempt to set this straight.

Again, thank you for this and your multitude of other contributions to this board.

@e1405 said:

The contrast when I put my More back on was not that significant anymore, though I still had the impressoin that my More sounded more natural, warm, and rich than the Lumity.

Since you’ve been DIYing your Mores, you’ve achieved that sound profile you’ve become accustomed to.
I had the same experience a few years ago when I trialled the Phonak Marvels after wearing the Oticon OPN for 3 years.
My audi was able to generally get them to sound close to the OPNs, but I hated the Autosense feature, and had other issues which steered me back to the Oticonian life, and went w/ the OPN S.
When you go back, have them disable Autosense, for sure. That’s the 1st hurdle.
I loved the cShell earmolds!
If you become a Phonyak, we’ll miss ya!

I’ll be very interested in your opinion of the Phonak Music program vs MyMusic (which does suck).

@flashb1024 said:

vs MyMusic (which does suck).

Not vs Phonak music topic but I want to share this.

MyMusic gain curve generated by Genie2 software really suck for my ears too. Despite use in-situ audiometry to correct sound output. Still sound stupid.

I have no idea how to adjust from there so I end up borrow Bernafon music program. Simple use the gain curve generated by OasisNXT software, copy and paste, band by band. Sound amazing to my ears with Oticon!

In reply to @eliotb

Thanks for your comments @eliotb. I hope you get your issue fixed, it should not be difficult following the suggestions @Volusiano gave you.

@flashb1024 said:

If you become a Phonyak, we’ll miss ya!

I don’t know about that. Right now, it is hard to justify purchasing new hearing aids, but Phonak might surprise me and put me in a hard spot lol. Autosense 5.0 seemed smooth enough to give it a go, although it is still too early to really say anything about it. I believe I will have similar results with the fine-tuned music programs, let’s see. I am very eager to get this A/B test going, that should be fun.

@mami2529 said:

I end up borrow Bernafon music program

At some point I did the same and copied the target gains from Phonak. I am past that now, have two very excellent music programs I crafted myself.

Edited

In reply to @mami2529

@mami2529 said:

I have no idea how to adjust from there so I end up borrow Bernafon music program. Simple use the gain curve generated by OasisNXT software, copy and paste, band by band. Sound amazing to my ears with Oticon!

On account that Bernafon is a sister company to Oticon, I’m almost inclined to bet that the Bernafon Music program is equivalent to the original legacy Music program that is in the OPN and OPN S, before the new MyMusic program was introduced to the More and Real. It’s a real shame that Oticon didn’t opt to keep the legacy Music program around and give users the option to pick which one they like better. They were so sure that their new MyMusic program is going to be loved by everyone that they didn’t think it through enough. It would have been so easy to make both available.

Anyway, I brought up this point for folks who used to wear the OPN or OPN S and now have the More or Real and don’t like the new MyMusic program so much. They can try to do what @mami2529 did and copy the OPN/S Music gain curve and see if they like it better, like how @mami2529 did it with the Bernafon Music program.

@Volusiano said:

Anyway, I brought up this point for DIY folks who used to wear the OPN or OPN S and now have the More or Real and don’t like the new MyMusic program so much. They can try to do what @mami2529 did and copy the OPN/S Music gain curve and see if they like it better, like how @mami2529 did it with the Bernafon Music program.

Hey V,and @mami2529 I tried it, and the Oticon rep did, too, but something within the MyMusic program, just does NOT allow for the exact gains to take, and it still does not have the dynamics, and presence of the legacy program.
I’ve been using my OPN S and listening to recorded, as well as many live music events.
My only problem with the OPN S has always been the “Flutter” issue, but overall, it’s a much more satisfactory solution than the More.
Heck, even the ConnectClip is better than !
I’ve got an appointment w/ the audi on Jan. 16th, and I may just have them create a music program based on the comfort program, and copy the OPN S music curves in it, and delete MyMusic altogether.

@flashb1024 said:

Hey V,and @mami2529 I tried it, and the Oticon rep did, too, but something within the MyMusic program, just does NOT allow for the exact gains to take, and it still does not have the dynamics, and presence of the legacy program.

Thanks for sharing this bit, @flashb1024 . I’m guessing MyMusic has some built-in restriction on the compression rate or something like that, perhaps.

When I made the suggestion above, I was actually thinking about just making a copy of the General P1 program, then modify ITS gain curves to match with those of the legacy Music program, instead of super-imposing the Music program’s gain curves onto what’s in MyMusic. Maybe the General P1 program doesn’t have as much restrictions imposed on it as MyMusic and would take to having the legacy Music gain curves imposed on it more readily.

@Volusiano said:

Maybe the General P1 program doesn’t have as much restrictions imposed on it as MyMusic and would take to having the legacy Music gain curves imposed on it more readily.

I agree on using the P1 as a starting point.
Whats going on with MyMusic is Oticon considers it an individual fitting rationale, and that’s the limiting factor to making changes in the gains.
I feel the More is also negatively impacting my experience.
Too much processing going on! I plan on just turning off the More Sound Intelligence features altogether.
The only upgrade from the OPN S from my viewpoint is the Feedback Management.
I’ll soon find out.

@flashb1024 said:

Too much processing going on! I plan on just turning off the More Sound Intelligence features altogether.

I had such a great time yesterday singing and playing the guitar with friends. The little party went on for hours, and I had my More 1 running my ‘guitar program’ (P3), which has all the digital features toggled off and almost no compression. It was easy to get the key from the nylon guitar and other singers, and I didn’t feel strained while tuning into conversations all over the place. Around midnight, the hearing aids died on me (got about 16 hours, not bad considering I also streamed a bunch earlier that day). While they were in the charger for a little boost, I noticed how much of an actual ‘aid’ I was getting from them…

Anyway, to your point, I think my current P3 sounds the most natural to my ears in my 2+ decades journey with hearing aids. However, if it were not for the guitars and singing, I’d have my hearing aids on my P1 (which has all digital features on); or at least a modified P3 with a compression scheme such as those suggested by the or VAC+ fitting formulas (which is my P4, that I use with my headphones). Hopefully, someday we can have our cake and eat it too, with a hearing aid that doesn’t sound processed, doesn’t distract us with unnatural sound behavior, and is pristine for speech comprehension!

In reply to @eliotb

@eliotb said:

My only beef with the Real 1s is that whatever Oticon engineer thought it was smart to cut the HA volume to the lowest level with an incoming/outgoing phone call

I have the opposite problem with my Phionak Paradise P90 - I am afraid of too much gained sound from my phone which may be dangerous for hearing on my better ear.

Edited

Day 1
As I mentioned in the original post, I’ve been wearing Oticon More 1 for the past 2 years. My comments are going to be relative to my experience with them.

Charger:

I am trialing the Phonak Lumity L90 version Life. It comes with the Phonak Charger Case Go™, which charges the up to three times on a single charge and can also be used as a case/dehumidifier. The charger/case is more convenient than the wall charger that comes with the other Lumity versions. I have the Oticon version of this charger/case for my More. They both look and work similarly, so there are no differences here.

Battery life:

As often discussed on this forum, the battery life of the Lumity isn’t great. It depletes faster than my Mores with 2-year-old batteries. It looks like streaming from my iPhone accelerates battery depletion on the Lumity, whereas I never noticed this pattern with the More. That makes sense, as the Bluetooth implementation on them is different: 4.2 Dual-Mode/ on the Lumity, made for iPhone () on the More. I have also noticed that the battery in my iPhone seems to be going down faster with the Lumity connected. Will see… Numbers: after 8 hours of use, the battery on the right HA is down to 35%.
Edit: 12 hours of use and the battery is down to 10% on the right HA and 15% on the left one. I don’t want it to get below that, so that’s it for today.

Connectivity:

No issues pairing the Lumity to my iPhone. I noticed that the myPhonak app acts up similarly to the Oticon Companion app, losing the connection with the hearing aids from time to time, usually when I move away from my iPhone. However, the Lumity can pair with pretty much anything that supports Bluetooth, while the More will only pair with MFi (Apple) and (Android) enabled devices.

App:

The myPhonak app provides the user with a lot of control over the HAs and their programs. I appreciate the ability to tweak the programs on the go and save any adjustments I think worth keeping. The only aspect where the Oticon Companion app has an edge over the myPhonak app is the ability to EQ streamed music (perhaps that is also possible on the myPhonak app, but I couldn’t work that out). That aside, Phonak has developed a much better app than Oticon.

Streaming:

As mentioned in the original post, I use custom molds with my More, while I wear the Lumity with domes. Moreover, I’ve been fine-tuning the music program on my More since the very beginning. Therefore, it might not be a fair comparison: I find streamed music more enjoyable, dynamic, and fun with the dedicated music program in my More. Not that the Lumity isn’t good; it’s just that, given the opportunity to A/B test, I notice a difference between them. Since I don’t really have an absolute reference for music, without the More around, I’d probably get used to the Lumity and be pretty happy with it. Another difference: I can stream to any of the 4 programs in my More. When streaming, the Lumity switches to the “Blueetooth streaming + mic” program. I’m not sure I like that. I would prefer to have the option to stream on other programs as well to get a feel for what is good and what might be missing, etc.

Music program:

Here is the biggest bummer so far: my classical guitar sounds distinctively processed with the Lumity. The crafted a dedicated music program with minimal compression and limited digital features for the Lumity. Not good, not good at all. I could not ignore the tonal gap between the Lumity and the More.

Since he was available, we tweaked and improved that music program in a following session. It’s still not good enough. With the Lumity, I’m aware that the microphone picks up the sound from the guitar, then the hearing aids process and amplify it, and then that sound is delivered to my brain. It sounds odd. My More does a better job tricking me, resulting in a more natural experience. It is like comparing the sound of a pickup/preamp (Lumity) with the unplugged sound of a fine guitar (More). The frequencies are all there, they just sound a bit different. Anyway, with my More, my guitar resonates right. As mentioned, I’ve spent countless hours tweaking the music program on my More. Maybe not a fair comparison either. I will report back if I am able to improve the music program on the Lumity.

Speech:

We decided to have the automatic programs in the Lumity set up with all the bells and whistles, leaving each feature at the levels suggested by the software. That would offer a good contrast with my More, as each would be properly programmed to showcase their strengths (speech-centered vs open). AutoSense 5.0 is smooth enough. It is not driving me crazy, as I anticipated! The human voice sounds crisper and perhaps more articulated with the Lumity. However, I still don’t have a firm opinion on this topic, as I haven’t put the Lumity to a thorough test yet. In the not-so-loud spots I’ve been to so far, I did not notice any significant improvement over my More. I will report back.
Edit: I spent one hour at the gym. Music there is very loud but I was able to communicate with people and understand the instructor. The left hearing aid would go silent from time to time and that always got me distracted. I guess a filter kicks in triggered by some random loud noise in the background. That does not happen with my More, as I have them more ‘stable’. Anyways, I did not have a “wow” moment with the Lumity there, just about the same I am used to with my More (apart from that frequent attenuation I mentioned).

Edited

I’m a More 1 user. Since my hearing is good at low frequency and bad at mid-high frequencies, it’s so difficult to hear in noisy environments. Because I mostly get the speech at low frequency. I looked at your audio. My audio is similar to your loss in left ear. Only the difference is I have just slight loss like 20-25db at 250 and 500hz. Don’t misunderstand me please. I just can’t even really hear the conversation in the noise.

Have you felt that Phonak absorbs sound in noisy environments and makes speech more understandable? I work in a cafe with high ambient noise due to many customers. All I want is to hear the customers in that noise. Sometimes More’s are so bad at this and it can get worse than without aids. If you ask, I tried all kinds of programs and settings with More.

I would be very grateful if you inform more. Thanks!

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