Oticon Intent review at 3 weeks

Fine. “Rat hole”? No.

Let’s cut to the chase. Oticon calls their new technology “Deep neural network”. It’s branded.

I’ll leave that to others to understand what that means. Me? I go down the “rat hole” of simple definition. In which case, as a descriptor, “deep neural network” tells me nothing objective about the new hearing aid. It’s nonsense. You agree!! we agree!

Sheesh! when did Webster’s and common parlance become a “rat hole”?

Here’s from Wikepdia:

In biology[edit]

1

Animated confocal micrograph1 of part of a biological neural network in a mouse’s striatum

Main article: Neural network (biology)

In the context of biology, a neural network is a population of biological neurons chemically connected to each other by synapses. A given neuron can be connected to hundreds of thousands of synapses.[1] Each neuron sends and receives electrochemical signals called action potentials to its connected neighbors. A neuron can serve an excitatory role, amplifying and propagating signals it receives, or an inhibitory role, suppressing signals instead.[1]

Populations of interconnected neurons that are smaller than neural networks are called neural circuits. Very large interconnected networks are called large scale brain networks, and many of these together form brains and nervous systems.

Signals generated by neural networks in the brain eventually travel through the nervous system and across neuromuscular junctions to muscle cells, where they cause contraction and thereby motion.[2]

In machine learning[edit]

Main article: Neural network (machine learning)

Schematic of a simple feedforward artificial neural network

In the context of machine learning, a neural network is an artificial mathematical model used to approximate nonlinear functions. While early artificial neural networks were physical machines,[3] today they are almost always implemented in software.

Neurons in an artificial neural network are usually arranged into layers, with information passing from the first layer (the input layer) through one or more intermediate layers (hidden layers) to the final layer (the output layer).[4] The “signal” input to each neuron is a number, specifically a linear combination of the outputs of the connected neurons in the previous layer. The signal each neuron outputs is calculated from this number, according to its activation function. The behavior of the network depends on the strengths (or weights) of the connections between neurons. A network is trained by modifying these weights through empirical risk minimization or backpropagation in order to fit some preexisting dataset.[5]

Neural networks are used to solve problems in artificial intelligence, and have thereby found applications in many disciplines, including predictive modeling, adaptive control, facial recognition, handwriting recognition, general game playing, and generative AI.

@Volusiano said:

It’s SO OBVIOUS that it can’t be real biological neural network.

In other news, an Apple Macintosh is not actually an edible fruit. That apparently needs to be pointed out to some here.

@Volusiano said:

I would say that I know enough in general about technologies used by other hearing aids’ brands to compare them in general with how Oticon does differently.

@x475aws said:

So you keep up to date on the latest-and-greatest technology from all the manufacturers, in enough detail to compare them with Oticon’s latest? Just what you’ve said about autosense-like technologies seems clearly wrong. I know ReSound doesn’t use that paradigm. Even Phonak, with the Lumity, is moving toward a single program that can handle multiple situations.

You’re ignoring the original question from @jeffrey , which I’ll repeat here for reference:

Within the context of this question, “speech in noise” feature is engaged or not engaged implies that to use AutoSense (in the case of Phonak aids prior to the Lumity), or manually, to go in and out of a Speech in Noise PROGRAM. So my answer to him within this context that he poses is that Oticon does not have a feature like AutoSense that will take the user in and out of the program the hearing aid deems appropriate for the environment as detected and determined by AutoSense. Oticon has its own kind of auto sense feature that adjust the noise reduction values right in the same single default program without the need to switch to any other programs. There’s nothing wrong with my answer within the context of the question he posed to me.

Again, you seem to really have a knack of taking what I said out of context in order to find something wrong with it.

Besides, now if Lumity using AutoSense 5.0 no longer takes the user in and out of multiple programs, but now adjusts over 200 distinct parameters in the aids to precisely match the exact sound environment all in the same program, then great for Lumity. At least it seems like they’re finally trying to take the same approach Oticon has already taken since 2016 after all → use 1 default program for everything, rather than trying to use AutoSense to hunt in and out of programs like before. That has been a big contention amongst the Phonak users community for many years, and some users just decided to rely on their own to change programs instead of relying on AutoSense to change programs for them.

Lumity only came out near the end of 2022. But since 2016 (when the Phonak AutoSense whitepaper was written), it was a good 7 years roughly that the Phonak AutoSense did the program switching for users (if they allow it). So to say that I’m wrong because Lumity doesn’t do that anynore and ignore the last 7 years of how it was done by Phonak would be cherry picking for sure.

As for the ReSound aids, you’re correct that it doesn’t use the AutoSense paradigm like Phonak does. I was talking in generalization and used the Phonak AutoSense as an example for convenience’s sake. The ReSound aid usually sets its default program to the 360 All-Around program, which is basically in the omni mode. When you need the aids to perform better in noise, you need to manually change to the Ultra Focus program (either via the app or push the button on the aid for 1 second), and it will change to a front focus beam forming mode that gives you a 4.2 dB SNR improvement over the 360 All-Around omni mode. The latest Resound Nexia has a new and improved Front Focus mode that gives you an additional 4.5 dB MORE ON TOP OF the 4.2 dB SN improvement already in the Omni, to a total of 8.6 dB SNR for speech. But from what I understand, it’s only available in their level 9 premium version. Again, the Front Focus feature/program must be manually activated via the app or the button.

The bottom line is that going into noisy environment and wanting to hear speech better there, many aids, including Phonak aids before the Lumity, need to be changed to a speech in noise program, either manually or via some kind of auto sense mechanism. The Oticon aids since 2016 with the OPN can vary the noise attenuation to improve speech clarity dynamically and continuously within the single default program already. There is no need to switch to a speech in noise program manually if it’s not desired to do so.

@OldMusicGuy said:

My biggest issue is with the Music program, which I find to be truly awful

MyMusic was designed with a unique fitting formula which limits the changes you can make in Genie2.
It closely follows the Harman Target curve which is a real V shape, but Oticon decreased the gain in the mid to the extent it sounds like a 1970’s boombox!

@Volusiano said:

@flashb1024 is one of the forum members who had to tweak his MyMusic program, but did it successfully to his satisfaction. You might want to PM him for details.

Unfortunately I never was able to tweak it to my satisfaction, and taking the info provided by @e1405 I created a custom Music program using the DSLv5.0 fitting formula as a foundation.
Now I can state my More 1’s reproduce music the More Real Opn way, as Intent(ed)!!

@x475aws said:

My concerns aren’t context-dependent. You used the question as an opening to launch a disquisition on Oticon technology, which of course is fine. But I don’t think it’s right to make comparisons to brands about which you lack sufficiently detailed and up-to-date knowledge. You disagree, and think it’s ok to depend on other people to correct your assumptions.

What makes you qualified to judge how much knowledge I have about other aids? I didn’t know that I’d have to deal with the “qualification” police when participating on this forum. lol.

And while you choose not to care about the context of the question, I do care a lot. That’s because I use the context of the question to positively share and discuss what I know to answer the question, as is the spirit of this forum. Meanwhile, you prefer to disregard the context of the question because you simply want to dwell on the negative focus of being the qualification police, which is against the spirit of this forum.

Especially when this context is very simple and not complicated all. I didn’t think I’d risk being busted by the qualification police for making a very simple statement that most aids’ brands have a built-in Speech-in-Noise program that needs to be switched to, either manually or via some kind of auto sense to activate. I don’t need to be fully well versed in my knowledge about other aids to make this simple statement, which is true for the most part.

You brought up the ReSound and Phonak Lumity examples to point out where you think I’m wrong. But I already replied in full w.r.t to those aids in my previous post, to show you that ReSound does indeed require manual switching to deal with speech in nosie, and the Lumity is only the first exception in a long line of Phonak models since 2016 that had used AutoSense to switch programs.

I know that you have a personal grudge against me in the past because of the many clashes you chose to engage with me before in previous threads. But I think you’ve carried it with you for far too long by now. It’s not healthy for this forum that you keep up with this negativity and try to be petty and cherry pick on every little thing you can find fault on in what I say. It really fouls the civility of every thread when you’re being like that.

@x475aws said:

Because my wife and I are in the midst of watching DS9 now, I have a vision in my mind of what Worf would say.

“less talk. More Synthehol.”? But that’s not DS9. I didn’t know Worf appeared in that series. the last quote is from the series that features Picard et/ al.

One cool thing about the Oticon Intent charger: it’s USB-C.

It comes with a removable USB-C to USB-A cable. The USB-A side plugs into a small power adapter. But you can just use a USB-C (to USB-C) cable of your choice to plug into the power adapter of your choice. Which is great for traveling. Fewer cables, fewer power adapters to lug around, etc.

I’ve got an Anker 747 Charger (GaNPrime 150W) with 3 USB-C ports and 1 USB-A port, and it pretty much handles all of my charging needs: laptop, phone, watch, headphones, and now my rechargeable hearing aids, too.

I was pleasantly surprised because you still find a lot of USB-A ports/ cables on things even though USB-C has been out for a while now.

This doesn’t change your basic point, but as a matter of terminology “neural network” refers to a network of biological neurons or a mathematical model that is, typically, implemented digitally.

Neural network

A neural network is a group of interconnected units called neurons that send signals to one another. Neurons can be either biological cells or mathematical models. While individual neurons are simple, many of them together in a network can perform complex tasks. There are two main types of neural network. In the context of biology, a neural network is a population of biological neurons chemically connected to each other by synapses. A given neuron can be connected to hundreds of thousands of syn...

Uh oh – you’ve prodded my other nerd tendency apart from hearing aids – English usage. Apple’s Macintosh and the Canadian fruit Mcintosh are spelled differently. The latter is named after Joseph McIntosh, b. 1775. They are homophones, though, so there is a connection with hearing!

Haha I love it! Thanks for teaching me something new today

@Um_bongo said:

The main issue for me would be that it’s effective to do this in the middle of the receiver performance, with a moderate loss and normal canal resonances, but you could easily get into a situation where things become unstable or saturate the receiver resulting in some nasty peak distortion.

Hm. I’m looking at my audiogram and it sure ain’t “moderate” loss. I could see me being subjected to over-saturation and LOTS of distortion - whether listening to music or just ambient noise + speech.

@user490 said:

It’s there something particular to TV or the speakers be used that causes aids to struggle? Can they be improved without a steamer?

In some cases, it is actually the TV as the TV sound system may produce poor sound. In other cases the audio from the program is poor quality. Sometimes sound bars or high quality audio systems and speakers can help. There are also some systems that claim to modify the sound to enhance voices but I have no experience with that.

The thing to remember with hearing aids is by themselves, they amplify and modify the audio signal at the hearing aid microphones. The direct signal from the TV or speakers is NOT the only thing the hearing aids pick up - they also respond to reflected signals from the TV that bounce off walls and other sound reflective surfaces and those arrive later than the direct signal. There are also other noise sources in the room such as fan noise from forced air AC/heating systems, random noise from a pet or refrigerator or other appliance and background conversation if others are in the room.

I have experience with the Oticon TV Adapter 3 with OPN, OPN S, More 1 and Real 1 aids. I now use molds (More and Real). With a TV streamer I can mute the microphones on the hearing aids (or reduce the volume) so most of what I hear is the streamed signal. That is like hearing only the direct audio from the TV without the room reflections and other room noises added in. For me, it is easier to understand voices when streamed than listening with just the aids and if I mute the mics when streaming it improves more. The streamer is not the perfect solution as the aids don’t have very good deep bass performance so music may not sound quite right but streamers are good for improving you understanding of dialog in a TV show or movie as most voices aren’t that low.

Than you so much, wr are very close in age and you have a little less of a hearing loss than me. I have been wearing aids close to 20 years and 14 years with Oticon aids. I found oud today i will be getting INTEND1 aids in late June. I an now wearing Real1 aids with More1 aids as my backup set of aids. I stream a lot noalw mostly audiobooks and using the TV adapter. The Real1 aids can go through a battery charge quite quickly streaming, most specially TV. For me going from OPNS to More was a significant improvement but from More to Real wad a mild improvement in wind noise and noisy environments. I really need help with noisy environments. And hopefully with music and lectures. I live in a retirement community with a local theater that gives us access to concerts and documentaries.
You must be wondering how i get the latest aids. I am a disabled veteran with a military service related hearing loss. I have always struggled with conversations and since moving to this community and using the VA clinic here my audiologist has taken me on as a challenge and i suck up by doing volunteer work at the clinic. My audiologist is a professor at the university in his spare time and i have become a case study for his classes.

I’m 3 weeks into Intent 1s as well. They are my first HA. I’m switching them out for a trial of the Real next week. My main reason for the switch is the width of them. I wear glasses and the wider Intent is rubbing on my right side and not comfortable. I have concerns going down to the Real because I want the latests tech, but I think the comfort is more important. I’m also having a strange ray gun type reverberation on the right side. not sure what it is from. It only happens after loud noises. I work in a school so when a kid is loud on my right side there’s a bit of a strange reverb. My audiologist adjusted the background noise setting to 5 (it was on 3) and it had no effect, maybe made it worse. Now with the background noise setting on 5 the HA are unusable while driving because they pickup road noise and intermittantly shut it on/off, which is worse than just having it on. Anyways, these are my first pair and they cost a fortune so I’m gonna be super picky until I find the right ones.