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Widex PureSound I'm confused

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Edited

I got to ask as I am totally confused about the Widex PureSound technology. I am having my first , the Widex SmartRIC 440 and don’t understand how this works. The initial setup shows 2 “programs”: Universal and Music and I don’t see anything saying PureSound in the app. I understand that the “Universal” program switches between various “sound classes” such as Social, Music, Quiet etc. with some optimized settings, none of which is described on the Widex web site by the way, I had to watch a vendor’s YouTube video to find out. Then there’s the “Music” program, which I am guessing is the same as the “music sound class”, but which one? There are 3 “Music Classes”. Then comes the “PureSound”. I understand what it does, but what I don’t understand is:

  • is this present when using the Universal Program ?
  • is the “PureSound Program” an individual subset like the “Music Program” (p.s. which my audi didn’t activate)?
  • how do I know if/when PureSound is active?
  • is “Universal” and “PureSound” programs either/or but not both?
  • is the “PureSound Program” (if available) actively switching between “Sound Classes”?
  • what’s the benefit, if any, of having a “PureSound Program” available?

Widex web site says absolutely nothing about how this works and my audi isn’t exactly forthcoming in explaining how this works either. I find Widex’s web site very frustrating as it tells you nothing useful in understanding its products. It won’t even tell you the differences between technology levels 440, 330, 220 or 110; it’s like a secret that only audiologists ought to know. Why are every features inactive from the start and have to ask my audi to turn them ON? Frustrating, it’s like buying a new car and having to ask for tires put on!

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Edited

Yes I have seen this section of the Widex web site, thank you but it only explains the technology, and as I said I understand what it does. What I don’t understand is when it is active and when it isn’t. Is it or is it not working when in the Universal Program? Does it only work if in the PureSound Program, which I can’t see or access with my at the moment (I currently have access to the Universal and Music programs)? My audi says that the PureSound is one of the sound classes that the HA automatically switches to when most appropriate; is that true or is my audi mistaken?

My understanding (and I am not qualified here…) is that it’s not a sound class per se, it’s a processing pathway that is used to reduce latency. If any special program is turned on, such as music, I believe the PureSound pathway goes away, because, more processing.

Not sure how you would know. I would guess if your hearing is good enough, you would notice the processing delay between one sound path over the other.

I’m looking to get the Widex SmartRIC 440. I loaded the app and will see an audi today about the Widex (have Philips now). When I run the app in the demo mode I see the universal mode selected by default, next is Puresound, music, MT, zen A, B, C, tv play and directional focus. The way I understand this is that Puresound is a separate mode of running where the delay is held to 0.5 msec, otherwise it’s lower than other but not that low and varies by frequency. Puresound sounded different and better to me when I demo’d the Widex a week or so ago but my hi freq loses go beyond it’s recommended range. But it sounded really good to me otherwise. If I select music then puresound and universal are no longer lit up. So is music using universal or puresound??? Does it take the last one of those selected? I’m not sure about that.

I had a quote of $6900. last week for the 440 and this audi said it was $4500. Can this be right or maybe they misquoted me for the 220 instead? Both audi’s take my insurance benefit of $3K and I am hoping that $4500. was real. I can’t spending $3900. more than my $3K benefit but $1500. more seems like a bargain. Do either of these prices sound realistic to you? I really like how the SmartRIC sounded and fitted and want it mainly for my guitar playing. My Philips is pretty bad even with my modes. Just can’t find a pleasant setting other than off which is very muted to me.

So the question remains is that which class is used when you select Music and can Puresound be used with the music program? It would be nice if in the app either Universal or Puresound stay lit up. But from what you just said, am I right in thinking that music and universal are just programs like the four I have in my Philips and that’s the same for Puresound. If I wanted Puresound to work better for just music the audi would have to modify it. And in that case could I have two Puresound programs, one for normal hearing and one with lower gains for music. I’ll see if the audi I see today knows.

@Regor250 said:
  • is this present when using the Universal Program ?
  • is the “PureSound Program” an individual subset like the “Music Program” (p.s. which my audi didn’t activate)?
  • how do I know if/when PureSound is active?
  • is “Universal” and “PureSound” programs either/or but not both?
  • is the “PureSound Program” (if available) actively switching between “Sound Classes”?
  • what’s the benefit, if any, of having a “PureSound Program” available?

The PureSound Program needs to be added to your hearing aid by an audiologist in the Widex Compass GPS.
The PureSound Program is independent of the Universal Program and they do not intersect at work.
You will need to use the hearing aid buttons or the APP to switch to the PureSound Programme.
You can simply think of the PureSound Program as a special Universal Program, they both have the same Sound Classes and use the same workarounds, the PureSound Program will sound more natural and comfortable compared to the Universal Program, but at the same time it will be less focused on the words.

Thank you menglxs, that is what I understood, which is at odd with what my audi says. I’ll have to argue some more with her.

Edited

In reply to @menglxs

Looking at the Compass Console, once I added the PureSound program (as my audi might) I could also adjust music for that program. And switching back to Universal I can also adjust music and other programs there as well. Can or are these settings different for universal and Puresound? What’s confusing is that when you are in the app it seems to treat universal, Puresound, music as the same thing…just independent programs. So when I select music, is it using the settings I might have set under puresound or the universal setttings for the music program. I don’t have Widex yet so just running in the demo mode and trying to understand what to ask my audi today. Thanks.

OK just set the quiet program under puresound one way and to the other extreme for the quiet program in universal program. So the quiet program is now different for universal and Puresound. So again, how do I know which setting is used in the app when I select quiet since universal and Puresound are no longer lit up? Do I select Puresound first and then quiet to get the Puresound setting set up in Compass?

@Regor250 said:

I find Widex’s web site very frustrating as it tells you nothing useful in understanding its products. It won’t even tell you the differences between technology levels 440, 330, 220 or 110; it’s like a secret that only audiologists ought to know

Yeah it’s not always easy, but the SmartRIC is the Moment platform, so just google features/spec’s for that.

Screenshot_20240522_130119

Just got back from HearUSA and their price for the SmartRIC 440 is indeed $4500. not $6900. like the first audi I saw. I get a $3K insurance benefit off of that. Had another hearing test and my hearing has really not changed all that much in 2 years, virtually the same which is good. I go back to be fitted with this June 5th and pretty excited about that. The audi I originally wanted to see was our with a dying mom but the replacement from another store was pretty good. I’ll see the desired audi in June and will know more about how they work out by then. Oh and she indicated that either the music or any other program can be set up with the universal or PureSound options but not both.

In reply to @fbacher1

All the programmes in the Widex are independent, you need to use the buttons or the APP to switch/select the other available programmes (that the audiologist has added to the hearing aid) from the default Universal Programme when the hearing aid is switched on, when you select the music programme, the hearing aid uses the settings as far as the music programme is concerned.
The Universal Program and PureSound Program are special to the other programmes in that they are automatic/smart programmes that automatically switch to different Sound Classes, i.e. when the hearing aid detects that there is music in your vicinity, the Universal Program and PureSound Program will automatically switch to the setting that is appropriate for the music when the hearing aid detects music in your vicinity.
However, I recommend that you manually switch to the Music Program when you want to enjoy music, rather than using the Universal Program or PureSound Program.

Edited

But in compass I can set the music program one way for the Universal program and then I can also set the music program for the PureSound version entirely different and they remain so in Compass. I check, went back and forth in Compass and there are two different versions that I made of the music program. It appears then that there are two versions of the music program, one using PureSound and those settings I made and the other using Universal and entirely different setting I made. But then in the app I can only access one music program. Or are you saying when the audi saves those two music versions they show up in the app as two separate music versions? If not then when I manually select music in the app, is it using the universal setting I made or the PureSound settings I made in Compass?

I understand the programs are independent and how the audi turns them on in Compass but the use of Universal and PureSound as they relate to other programs like music, comfort, etc is confusing. All programs seem to be able to have a Universal and PureSound versions.

In compass there are two distinct and different versions of all the programs for PureSound and Universal. In the case of PureSound (music for example) some options are grayed out compared the the Universal version of music.

There are things that hearing aids do to process sound that are computationally intensive and add a lag. These things are turned off on the puresound program for that reason. So think of the puresound program as less processed. If you have the right in many cases this might be good, but in some cases the more processed sounds might be better if that processing can clean speech or improve .

Yes I do understand what PureSound does. And it seems like there can be a puresound version of the music program as well as a universal version. I set that up today demo’ing the audi’s program Compass. Which version will the app use or will there be two shown. If I rename the PureSound version to something else and have the audi add it my app then maybe the two “versions” will show up there. I won’t see the audi again to ask until June 5th but I can that two can be created in the Compass software so I’m assuming the Puresoft version of music might be better with the 0.5 msec delay of PureSound or maybe not. I don’t really care about speech enhancement when using the music program for guitar playing.

And I found this statement when I selected the Sound Class tab within the fine tuning section of Compass. Sound classes are only available for the “programs” listed below and then P1 Universal and P2 PureSound…so you have to select one of those and they while they identical sound class names, the settings available are different depending on if you select Universal or PureSound.

@Regor250 You may find that the PureSound program will not help, as it is designed for people with not too severe a hearing loss.
I tried it on my aids but found it too quiet.

No harm in trying though, it is easy enough for your audiologist to add or remove

Thank you wiclifmcc for the feedback. I will most likely conclude the same. Widex rep says I might get some distortion in the high frequencies with my profile, but I’d like to try it nonetheless, I have an inquisitive nature.

A while baclk Widex touted some aids as being stripped down–few bells and whistles–and as a result produced better sound quality. Many musicians seemed to agree. I’m not sure if stripped down equates to less processing. In any case, I’m also unclear whether Pure Sound uses less processing, or more, or is anyway just another form of processing–another bell and whistle.
I turn off most features in my aids when using a music program. So in a sense that may be same as using the older widex models that considered less to be more.

Latency. Comb effect. If you have mild to moderate hearing with an open dome and don’t need bass amplification you will get a LOT less comb effect with Widex in the 2022 year line up than other hearing aids.

Comb effect causes people sensitive to sound, like musicians, to notice the lag of the mic and their own voice or the sounds around them. It’s like listening to everything through a fan to create ‘robot voice’ as a kid. Awful. Bloody awful.

Pure sound has less processing. Less lag. Less comb effect. Less losing your god. Damned. Sensitive. Trained. To. Hear. Slight. Issues. With. Pitch. Mind.

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