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New hearing aids signia or Oticon

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In reply to @flashb1024

@flashb1024 said:

The Oticom music program can’t be set up as you like, because Oticon created a custom fitting rationale for it which limits the amout of fine tuning available.

Not sure what you mean by this, but you can adjust the MyMusic program in the Fine Tuning section in the same way you can any other program using any other rationale. That’s what I have done anyway…

In reply to @OldMusicGuy

@flashb1024 said:

The Oticom music program can’t be set up as you like, because Oticon created a custom fitting rationale for it which limits the amout of fine tuning available.

@OldMusicGuy said:

Not sure what you mean by this, but you can adjust the MyMusic program in the Fine Tuning section in the same way you can any other program using any other rationale. That’s what I have done anyway…

When you go into Fine Tuning and change the gain value of 1 “spot”, let’s say at the 1 KHz “handle” for the Medium input level row, if you change it to be different enough, it might cause the other “spots” to start varying in their values as a byproduct of the manual change that you make in the original spot. How the subsequent changes in the other spots ensue is a function of the fitting rationale that is assigned to that program.

So yes, you’re right that you can make adjustments in Fine Tuning for the MyMusic program just like how you do it for the other programs. But what @flashb1024 is trying to say here, I think, is that the MyMusic program is not based on the VAC+ fitting rationale or any of the other standard rationales like v5 or NAL-NL1 or NL2, etc. It’s based on a different formula entirely → the Harman Target curve that is normally used to shape headphone sounds.

Note that @flashb1024 didn’t say that the MyMusic program cannot be adjusted in the Fine Tuning section like the other VAC+ or standard rationale based programs. He only said that the MyMusic program “can’t be SET UP AS YOU LIKE”. This seems to imply that however you adjust it to be, it’s still going to follow the Harman Target formula and it’s not going to follow the VAC+ or the other standard formulas like you might have expected it to follow. So if you think that the Harman Target formula is “whacky” for your musical listening taste to begin with, and one of the other formulas is more inline with your musical listening taste, then don’t make adjustment based on the whacky formula because you’ll more than likely to continue to get whacky results from it no matter what. It’s probably better to start out making adjustments on a more mainstream formula so that the result can be more inline with your expectation.

In reply to @OldMusicGuy

@OldMusicGuy said:

Not sure what you mean by this, but you can adjust the MyMusic program in the Fine Tuning section in the same way you can any other program using any other rationale. That’s what I have done anyway…

What I mean is pretty much how @Volusiano explained, that you can adjust gains, but they do interact to the point of creating unwanted settings.
As you stated, achieving zero compression resulted in an undesirable outcome, and you expended a lot of time & effort.
Why bother? Just delete MyMusic and create your own, based on a standard fitting rationale which will allow tuning to your taste!
Attempting to manipulate MyMusic is futile!
I may have misread your post, but if you are satisfied with your end result within MyMusic, congratulations, and enjoy.

From what I’ve been reading, folks tend to love the Intents for everything but music. And by this last, I mean playing music on an instrument themselves. My guess has been that the Intents’ fitting rationale is different from most and so audis are clueless how to proceed with a musician program, through no fault of their own>

Simple, some here say, just delete everything and diy! I can’t do that. I have enough on my plate without learning to program my own aids myself. I hate messing with computers. Ain’t gonna happen. Wouldn’t be prudent, as Bush 1 used to say.
I won’t be trialing, much less buying the Intents. Unless there’s a breakthrough in audis figuring out how to program them for music.

Edited
@jeffrey said:

My guess has been that the Intents’ fitting rationale is different from most and so audis are clueless how to proceed with a musician program, through no fault of their own>

You make this sound desperate, but it really is not at all.

If folks don’t like the Oticon MyMusic program, just don’t use it. Just have your create a new program that has one of the other rationales, like VAC+ or or whatever, and simply turn off all the noise reduction and processing features and set the directionality setting to Fixed Omni, and you now have a custom program that should be good for music overall. Your HCP should not be clueless like you said to not know how to do the above. If they really are that clueless, then you should probably go find another more competent HCP.

The folks might want to go into this custom program and Fine Tune it some more to their liking, but this is definitely not a requirement for non-DIY folks. Just have your HCP create a custom music program and don’t use the MyMusic program, and it should be good enough in most cases for you. And the only “custom” thing about it is to turn off the noise reduction and the other features and put it into Fixed Omni.

Incidentally, just listening to basic music even with the default General program with the noise reduction on and other processing features enabled is still also quite acceptable to many people in many cases, like casual movie watching or what-have-you, like music in the car while driving. But of course for the music afficionados, getting rid of all the processing features and ensure that it’s in omnidirectional mode just makes it even one notch better, that’s all.

In reply to @jeffrey

@jeffrey said:

From what I’ve been reading, folks tend to love the Intents for everything but music. And by this last, I mean playing music on an instrument themselves. My guess has been that the Intents’ fitting rationale is different from most and so audis are clueless how to proceed with a musician program, through no fault of their own>

The general program of the Intents sounds really good for music. Many people complain about Oticon MyMusic, and I agree it is not a great program. However, when properly adjusted and with “clear dynamics," Oticon hearing aids can sound excellent for music—going back at least to the OPNs.

Many folks talk about a very good first fit with Widex for music. It seems with Oticon, some tweaking is required to get music sounding right. It might take some time, but in the end, they do sound rich and full.

In reply to @Volusiano

@Volusiano said:

The DIY folks might want to go into this custom program and Fine Tune it some more to their liking, but this is definitely not a requirement for non-DIY folks. Just having your HCP create a custom music program other than using the MyMusic program, and it should be good enough in most cases for you.

I think all the average music listener would need with the Intents is a copy of P1 with as many "digital features’’ disabled as possible. Rename it to “music” and you are all set…

In reply to @flashb1024

@flashb1024 said:

Why bother? Just delete MyMusic and create your own, based on a standard fitting rationale which will allow tuning to your taste!
Attempting to manipulate MyMusic is futile!

Every rationale imposes the constraints of that rationale. You can’t change the underlying V5 rationale in the same way you can’t change the MyMusic rationale. It all comes down to which you prefer.

I initially didn’t like MyMusic at all. My audi tweaked it a bit for me based on my feedback and it was better but still not right. When I started to at home I created a new program based on DSL V5 and started tweaking that. I actually preferred the tweaked version of the MyMusic program that my audi created, the new program based on DSL V5 was not the immediate answer to my issues.

I’ve stuck with MyMusic and have adjusted it so that it works really well for me. So no, it is not futile adjusting MyMusic and adjusting MyMusic is just the same as adjusting any other rationale. Which works best for you however is down to your own preferences and listening needs.

I trialled Phonak, Resound and Oticons. None of them sounded good “out of the box” for listening to music in my experience. The most important point is that it takes work to get any optimally set up for listening to music and I think that is beyond most audis and anyone that isn’t prepared to DIY.

@OldMusicGuy said:

I trialled Phonak, Resound and Oticons. None of them sounded good “out of the box” for listening to music in my experience. The most important point is that it takes work to get any HAs optimally set up for listening to music and I think that is beyond most audis and anyone that isn’t prepared to DIY.

Thanks for saying this. I think this is a more accurate statement than what @jeffrey made it out to be in post #105 in this thread, where it was implied that Oticon specifically has a problem with their music program that most other aids’ brands don’t (he said “the Intent’s fitting rationale is different from most” → implying that most other brands don’t have an issue with their music program but Oticon aids do because Oticon’s MyMusic is the only music rationale that must be exclusively used for music, which is not true).

Oh geeze, all I meant and wrote was, I’ve read a lot of posts where folks said they loved how they performed for speech but found the music program to be awful or at any rate not very good. I speculated that since the Intents were still fairly new, maybe audis haven’t figured out a good way to program (or tweak) its music program. Oticon states that the Intents use new technology. Maybe that new tech requires some time to learn to fit. Sheesh. Please don’t make me out to be an Oticon hater. I’ve never even trialed the Intents! Why would I hate them?
By the way my Signia muscian program was awful before I walked my audi through the process of deleting certain features. Now it’s very good.

I definitely didn’t mean to tag you as an Oticon hater, so if I sounded like that, I apologize. I just want to clear up the misunderstanding. And by the way, the issue with MyMusic didn’t start with the Intent because that’s brand new technology in the Intent only. It went back as far as the More, and persisted through the Real, and now forward to the Intent. So in no way is the MyMusic issue solely specific to the Intent because it’s new technology with the Intent.

By the same token, if any hasn’t figured out how to custom create a music program for their patients because their patients don’t like the built-in music program, that’s not because they haven’t figured out the Intent yet, because this issue went all the way back to the More years ago already. It can only because they’re either not competent enough, or they don’t care, or the patients haven’t made the proper request for them to do something about it yet so they didn’t even know that it’s an issue for the patient. But a good HCP would have asked…

In reply to @OldMusicGuy

@OldMusicGuy said:

I’ve stuck with MyMusic and have adjusted it so that it works really well for me. So no, it is not futile adjusting MyMusic and adjusting MyMusic is just the same as adjusting any other rationale. Which works best for you however is down to your own preferences and listening needs.

Point well taken, for sure. It’s all down to your ears.
Anyway, enjoy your music

Edited

In reply to @dcmprshn

@dcmprshn said:

Are you using the Oticons?

Yes, Oticon Intents. And on those, the only way to “turn off” compression is to adjust the gain levels in Fine Tuning for every frequency so that the compression ratio is 0 at all frequencies for all gain levels. It probably took me the best part of an hour to do that, maybe your audi has done it before and knows what to adjust. But it will be unique for every user and you should have seen him fiddling with the Fine Tuning for a while.

In reply to @OldMusicGuy

All the rationales are just gain targets. If you set your hearing aids to and then wrangle them so that the gain targets and the compression are fit the NL2, then your rationale is NL2. There’s nothing secret underneath that is still DSL. Same for the music program. There are absolutely contraints on how severely you can adjust one channel without adjusting another to try to keep it from sounding like full junk, but it doesn’t have to do with the rationale.

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