Starkey Edge AI Experience

So what phone do you have? Does anyone have an Android phone that works well with the Edge AI?

Hmmm I’m also trying to get the Phonak Audeo Spheres on trail, because a new phone with the Oticons will cost me more then the Phonak Audeo Spheres. I was quite hesitant at first to these Phonaks, because some were talking on very bad battery life, but what I’ve read here on this forum so far makes me very positive.
I’ll let you all know… I hope my audi will trail them.

@Teewens said:

So what phone do you have? Does anyone have an Android phone that works well with the Edge AI

I have the Samsung S22 Plus. Connects with everything even a $20 cheap pair of over the ears headphone. Starkey loses connection randomly or it takes me 15 minutes to pair and pair again to connect only to lose connection later.

I think I am going to be happier with Phonak which was the road I was originally on and switched due to this particular audiologist.

I have a Pixel 6a that I have no problems with.
I walked 60ft out the front door across the street and I still had the signal. It started to breakup.
I walked across the street back to my house which is 50 ft and I had the signal.
I have a large front window with a Bahama shutter on it at an angle.
I have a full glass storm door.
I walk in the park with the phone in my front left pocket, which I measured to be 3 ft to my hearing aids.
I cannot do BLE with my phone. I can only do ASHA.
Phone was on my chair in the front room.
Maybe the stars were aligned.

So limited hands free phoning. What a shame. For me to switch to the Edge I’d have to ditch a perfectly good phone, shell out hundreds on a Pixel for a worse implementation of hands free than I have on the Phonak aids I’m replacing. No thanks Starkey.

Biggest thing with the BT problems is not exactly the nomenclature… but the implementation by manufacturers…

TL;DR: BT LE Audio and the support for Hearing Aids will get better over time. if you need it, pick an approved combo (HA’s and Phone) or stick with Mfi HA’s for Apple and Phonak(or if you like: an ASHA compatible HA) for Android users.

A deep dive in Bluetooth:

With Bluetooth you have the Hardware specification. This describes what the chipset can do, ie: use Bluetooth, or use Bluetooth LE and/or use certain compression algorithms with this hardware (use the hardware to compress/uncompress data, to offload the other chips)

Bluetooth is Bluetooth Classic(Bluetooth Spec 1 to 5.4 right now) - full feature set, full bandwidth and power hungry.
This is used for everything nowadays, controlling, streaming audio, streaming video, streaming data etc.

Bluetooth LE (Low Energy)(incorporated since Bluetooth Spec 4) has lower battery drain, but also a sloppy connection (i.e., not checking every x ms if the other party is there, but only talking to each other if necessary)
This is used for controlling things (turn on/of, change volume, pass me the current location, etc)

BT LE Audio is the specification of a set of functions, and an algorithm (LC3) that can be used over Bluetooth LE and can be used to stream audio with less bandwidth, less lag and less power, while the audio stream is (uncompressed) higher quality, so better audio while using less energy and bandwidth.
BT LE Audio can be used from Bluetooth Spec 5.2, but that only states the Hardware (chip) layer.
On top of that you also need the software support for it, so the manufacturer of the phone needs to enable these options for the end-user. That’s where a lot of these things go wrong…

Auracast is an extra feature that is enabled trough the LE Audio & LC3: broadcast audio.
Normally a BT connection is point-to-point, so only one device connecting to one other device.
With LE Audio & LC3 it’s possible to create a multipoint connection (or even a 1-n connection); you can broadcast audio ad anyone that subscribes will hear it. (This can be public(Theater/Church/Airport/Cinema) or private(Your TV/Stereo) broadcasts)
With an auracast stream your HA’s or Headphones connect directly with the broadcaster and pickup the sound. To select what broadcaster or what channel (or what password to use for a private channel) an “assistant” is needed. This can be a smart battery-case, such as some JBL cases or your phone (if the phone supports Auracast and the Auracast Assistant role).

Profiles:
For devices to know what they can do and how to talk to each other, there are certain “Bluetooth Profiles”
Some of these are:
HSP - Headset Profile
A2DP - Advanced Audio Distribution Profile
HAP - Hearing Aid Profile
HAS - Hearing Aid Services

The phonak HA’s need “full bluetooth” with HSP and A2DP profile to stream audio and make calls. For their MyPhonak App they use BT LE.
The HSP & A2DP profiles exists for a long time and are widely adopted by phones and headsets/earphones, so that almost always works.

Starkey, Oticon and others only use BT LE functionality, so if it’s usable then depends on if the Phone manufacturer has used a compatible chip, that has BT LE and LC3 on board, did they implement the LC3 audiostream functions in their firmware? (the layer between the chip and the OS(Android). Did they add all necessary Profiles? HAP profile, Streaming profiles and did they add entries to the audio-mixer device? (Sometimes it all somewhat works, but the do’nt add the correct routings to the audiomixer in android and thus there is no audio, or very loud audio, or imbalanced audio…

The problem we see now is that a phone can use the correct Bluetooth Specification (5.3 or 5.4), so you assume it could use BT LE Audio…
Hmm not so, because there are some chip-makers that don’t incorporate the LC3 spec (for now; if it gets more traction, they’ll create new chips that also have that).
Also, if you’ve verified that Yes, the phone is using BT 5.3 of 5.4 and has BT LE and the LC3 spec, on chip, it can still be that the phone manufacturer didn’t include the instruction layer between the chip and the OS, so the OS can’t use LC3.
This could be fixed with a Firmware update and this is also the case with some of the newer hearing aids that are said to get the “Auracast” of “LE Audio” features in a Firmware update.
If all this works, then the OS (Android) can communicate with the chip and use LC3, but if the specific Profiles and/or Auracast Assistent features are not present, enabled or the settings are not correct, you can still not use it.

It will probably take a couple of phone iterations/years to have broader support and work better.
Until that time, take a good look at compatibility-charts and trial your devices, so you know what you get.

Although it’s not the solution we’re hoping for, I’m trying to find a solution in the form of a ring that has Bluetooth and a button for play and answering calls. But I’d have to see how feasible it is first. The ring seems like a small and practical remote control.

I didn’t enjoy music with domes. However my hearing is severe enough now that domes aren’t an option. Custom made receivers are more comfortable and deliver better quality sound when it comes to music, especially when streaming.
I’m lucky enough that my audiologist also works with a lot of hearing abled musicians making custom receivers for them. Sometimes the sound quality is only as good as the audiologist who fits you.

I’m very interested in your comparisons. Can I ask whether your provider performed REM on any of your fittings. The comparison would be a lot more meaningful if they had, especially if you were just fit with Starkey’s proprietary fitting formula (estat) which provieds notably less gain than the widely used NAL-NL2 formula, which could be why speech clarity was inferior.

@freezerman404 said:

That’s the nature of Bluetooth.

With Phonak it doesn’t have to be disconnected manually, it happens all automatically.

Phonak automatically chooses the device by itself without your intervention?

You have to pair it, but after that, it requires less intervention than Starkey. That’s the advantage of regular Bluetooth compared to ASHA.

It pairs to two devices if I remember correctly.
You have to choose which device you want to use.
Disconnect the aids are turn off Bluetooth.
I only have it paired to my phone.
I don’t think it can pair to more than one device, so Phonak does have that over it.
You still can connect to only one at a time and stream or whatever from only one at a time.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I have to try to be sure, but I understand two devices at a time ar possible (phone and another device)