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No real idea how to use the hearing aid apps - both Oticon and Phonak

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I have been wearing hearing aids now for 14 years - most of those were using NHS aids; last year the moulds began creating sores on my ear lobes and so decided to look for private in ear ones. First bought Oticon Intent which worked to a degree but did not appear to do what it said - specifically reducing background noise which was one of my main priorities. When I saw the launch of the Phonak Sphere with the new technology, bought those [from same company and said Audiologist]. Whilst volume wise they were superior, found no difference in reducing background noise. Being very disappointed started searching the web for answers and discovered this forum and was somewhat disconcerted to find that the Sphere should - and does - work, but everything appears to be down to your hearing professional. I have had no instruction on the use of either of the apps and feel very let down that having spent so much money, appear to have had so little service. I have asked the Audiologist to come back and explain fully what the Phonak does - or should do - and he is coming next Monday but if I am still not satisfied I feel I should return the aids to that company and start again with a different one. Has anyone any ideas or advice they can give, please? I am in the UK.

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Oh dear. What a state of affairs.

If you’ve been fitted with the Spheres, they should reduce background noise. There are 3 programs to do this, the most sophisticated is the “Spheric” program, which activates when noise reaches a threshold, usually around 70dB or above.

If they are not doing this, then you should tell the audiologist. It’s unlikely you have a pair of duds, more likely they have been poorly fit. At the very least, the speech in noise, or speech in loud noise programs should be activating, and kicking in, in noise.

The Intents should have worked as well.

You kind of loss do you have?

The biggest complaint that I have in my short hearing aid experience, is finding out what the various functions are in the hearing aid phone app.

I have been wearing the Jabra Enhanced Pro 20s for about a month. The hearing aid specialist at Costco helped me load the app on my iPhone 13 and connect the hearing aids to the phone. Otherwise, I was on my own. After reading the documentation from Jabra’s website, I discovered that there were more functions that she could add to the app. When I came in for my first follow-up appointment, she added them through her hearing aid software.

The documentation doesn’t really explain what the functions are designed to do, except for the obvious. For example, the app function labeled, “Hear in Noise”, says something to the effect that it makes hearing speech easier in noisy environments such as restaurants. Duh! Another example, On the All-Around app, there’s a button called, “Noise Filter”. What does that function actually do? The documentation says, “Use the quick buttons for one tap sound adjustments”. Further explanation of the quick buttons on the app itself are also useless. “Quick Buttons, for easy sound adjustments of, for example noise level, tap a quick button at the bottom of the program card. To go back, tap the quick button again”. This kind of documentation is useless because the explanation just repeats the name of the buttons.

This kind of nonsensical writing may keep technical writers employed, but they don’t give the end user any really useful information. I understand that some hearing aids are using , (Artificial Intelligence software), to make their app more user friendly. Maybe a little more natural human intelligence would work better. :thinking:

In reply to @glucas

Thank you for your response. I suppose I come under the Medium to Severe, but also have tinnitus which doesn’t help! I have no idea where to find the ‘Spheric’ program which seems to be the one I need - but really do now feel my audiologist should have given me help with the app, not just installed it! On it there is ‘Auto’, ‘360deg’, ‘Restaurant’, ‘Music’ and ‘TV’. I was sold a separate receiver for the TV which does seem to work quite well and to which the hearing aids connect automatically when the TV is switched on, but that is about all I know…

When I complained about the Intents not performing as expected, he didn’t offer any reply or explanation - I am beginning to feel he is more like a salesman than an augiologist!

In reply to @Flyboybob

Thank you for your response; I totally agree that the paperwork is like all documentation with any technology - OK if you are a techie - but not must use if you are just a user! I do think that with all the money these aids cost, we should be able to expect better service but perhaps that is just a sign of the times…
So pleased I found this forum otherwise I would just have thought it was my bad luck that I paid thousands of pounds for two duff sets of hearing aids!

In reply to @Happy-Nan

The Spheric loud noise program does not appear as a separate program but it is possible, once the aids go into the “spheric” mode to then save it as a custom program. Then one can select that if required.

If your audiologist does not know why the Intents failed, that sets off alarm bells. If you are paying thousands, make sure you are in a trial!

Edited

In reply to @Happy-Nan

@Happy-Nan said:

I have no idea where to find the ‘Spheric’ program

See here, how to use the MyPhonak App and manually create a separate program for: Spheric Speech in loud noise

Fitting for Infinio Sphere
the guy in this video shows how to create a manual programm as “Spheric Speech in loud noise” [I Used the Phonak Audeo SPHERE Infinio Hearing Aid for One MONTH...]

and find a written explanation here

Phonak Infinio Sphere I90 Review (Another One!)
The audiologist can create a separate program on the fitting software. Or… On my Spheres, Autosense seems to invoke Spheric Speech in Loud Noise when the ambient noise level exceeds something like 65 dBM. In the phonak app, if you touch “Adjust program” at the bottom of the screen when in Automatic mode, the app will show you which program Autosense is using at that moment. If it’s Spheric Speech in Loud Noise, then touch “Save as new” in the Adjust program setting page and it’ll create a ne…

Out of curiosity, do you guys think it is a general patient expectation that your clinician should teach you how to use the app?

The app is not critical to hearing aid function, it’s a nice side benefit for certain users who like to fiddle. I think a lot of providers don’t really see themselves as phone techs, and don’t consider teaching people how to use their cellphones and apps as a real part of their job, although they will often provide a basic orientation. But what do YOU guys think their responsibility here is? Consider for someone who is fluent with a smart phone versus someone who doesn’t know how to download and install or close and delete apps generally. Consider also that extra clinical time will always increase hearing aid costs to some degree, so 5 versus 15 minutes versus an hour of orientation matters. To what extent would you consider attending a class on the relevant smartphone stuff provided by your clinician with other patients? To what extent would you consider attending a local class on using smartphones more generally provided in your area but not by your clinician?

In reply to @firenzel

Thank you; the video really does explain it and makes it easier to state my case with the audiologist. I could have been shown this, or at least had it explained - not left to feel I have bought useless hearing aids - again!

In reply to @Neville

I think the problem lies with the manufacturer who developed the app. They are not training the hearing aid specialists or audiologists in the usage of the app. Or, maybe the developers just add additional functions which just do the same things as what they already had. A good example is the GN app which works with Beltone, ReSound, and Jabra hearing aids. They removed the manual ability to focus the microphones in the, “Hear in Noise” card, from the app when they developed the Jabra Enhanced Pro 20. I assume they automated the feature which was previously manual in the Pro 10 model. However, they kept it hidden in the fitting software. There must have been a huge uproar among users who upgraded, so now the feature can be added to the, “Hear in Noise”, card by the audiologist or hearing aid fitter.

When I first was fitted with the Jabra’s I was very disappointed in the automatic noise reduction functionality. However, after restoring the manual ability to focus the microphones on the speaker in front of me the, “Hear in Noise” functionality works much better. Sometimes, software engineers will try to automate something because they can, and sometimes they like to add a new feature. But the truth is that having manual controls may be a better solution. An old adage among computer folks is, “Hardware breaks, and software sucks”.

I feel that the tech should give at least a brief overview of the phone app to new users. It would be very useful if HAs came with instruction pamphlets with explanations of the different settings in the apps, not sure why they don’t. Not everyone has the ability or inclination to go searching for this info on the internet. I’m not sure how popular or practical classes would be, especially since the age and health of some users might make it difficult to attend.

The instructions for using the app came with the hearing aids printed and are also available as PDF documents on their website. My complaint is that the instructions don’t tell the user what to expect from each function. For example, a function such as, “Listen in Noise”, says use when in noisy environments. I don’t need instructions to figure that out myself. What I want to know is, what kind of environment are they referring to. A restaurant verses a football game. A wind reduction function should indicate what the maximum wind velocity it can reduce the noise and from which direction. I discovered the other day that wind from behind is worse sounding than wind from the front. Considering that the hearing aid microphones are behind my ears should make that obvious. However I had to discover it on my own. Why should I, the customer have to figure some of these features out by experimentation instead of the manufacturer saying, “Wind over 20 MPH from the rear is the maximum wind sound reduction capability”.

@Flyboybob said:

instructions don’t tell the user what to expect from each function.

Exactly. Instructions are far too vague, and are way more complicated than they used to be. Add to that the various Autosense type programs that try to think for the user, but not always in sync with the user’s intentions. Confusion ensues…

But you can’t really expect the manufacturers to explain every aspect or possible scenario, especially as most would be in different environments at any given time of the day, I think the Apps are very basic in how they work, most people would use a bit of common sense to work them out.

In reply to @Neville

@Neville said:

The app is not critical to hearing aid function, it’s a nice side benefit for certain users who like to fiddle.

Interesting question. I am “very techy”. I have worked in and around IT for 30 years. I use an Android phone because I like to be able to tinker and I have a Windows domain running in my house with an email server, ftp server, DNS, DHCP, user logins and permissions, four web servers, with 3 of them shared out to the internet, etc, etc.

I got Target from the section here and make adjustments to my Phonak aids.

All of that said, when I got my Phonaks a year ago, my audiologist insisted that I download the MyPhonak app right then, and waited while I did so. She said that I had to have it to use my hearing aids.

My feeling is that if that is they way she is going to present it, then yes, she has an obligation to show me how to get benefit from it. As it turned out, she seemed to have no idea what she was doing with it, gave me vague instructions like "you should see something with a name that suggests that it’s a hearing aid, and will say either ‘left’ or ‘right’, and then when it didn’t look like she expected I had to wait while she called tech support on speaker phone.

So I believe that the manufacturer has an obligation to provide “average user” level documentation, and to make that documentation readily available. And the audiologist needs to be able to demonstrate the functionality and explain the use cases if they are going to push it as a significant part of the solution.

After a year, I have a “hate/hate slightly less” relationship with the MyPhonak app. I like being able to pop in and see my battery levels, and it’s fairly handy to be able to select a program…but…it is absolutely infuriating that no matter which program I choose, if at any time my phone screen wakes up - MyPhonak immediately switches to “bluetooth streaming +mic” mode. I work and play in some fairly loud environments (I was in a bowling alley last night), so I make heavy use of the “Speech in Noise” type settings. Works great until i get a notification, text message, whatever - then I am getting full volume without any warning. Sometimes it will switch back to my selected program after a few moments. Most times not.

So my “solution” is to switch to the program I want and then disable bluetooth on my phone - which kills my smart watch functionality. Seems like there should be a better solution, but I can’t find it and nobody showed me.

Well you won’t have this issue if you use the buttons on your to change program’s, you don’t need the app for calls or streaming right?

If I use the buttons to change programs, and my phone is still connected via bluetooth, then the app still changes my to “Bluetooth Streaming +Mic” when I get any notification, unless I disable bluetooth on my phone.

I could disable “audio” in the bluetooth connection on my phone, but then I wouldn’t be able to stream when I wanted to (though I would still be able to make and receive calls).

And while I appreciate the attempt to help, getting “well, just don’t use the app” from a random internet forum user fully 12 months after being told it was necessary by the person that I was paying a lot of money to for her “expertise”… well, that’s just not helpful. And it doesn’t address the issue that I was responding to, which was whether the audiologist should be expected to provide some level of training for the app that they are pushing.

In reply to @Allen

You could in theory disable auto sense and it stops this, but then getting back to the bluetooth streaming program is a pain in the but. Phonaks whole architecture needs to change. Something like Widex, the streaming service sits on top of your running program, so the program you’re running doesn’t change when a call comes in. I think this is how Oticon still does it as well. It’s even worse for me as I’m blind and I use a screen reader on the phone. So I physically cannot use the phone through the Phonak ’s with the program running that I want because the reader is talking all the time I’m using the phone. This is why I stopped the phone from ever connecting the streaming portion to my HA’s, luckily you can leave the connection but disable that. I’d never get a moments peace otherwise :slight_smile:

Just wanted to say that I’m really sorry for the poor experience you’ve had. However, the Spheres are some of the best hearing aids out there right now, especially for speech in background noise. You should with time, practice and some good instruction, be able to get them to do what you want. There is a lot to learn with them and the more you dig into the app, the more you should be able to make it fit your specific requirements.
I would definitely get your audiologist to make you a custom program with Spheric mode, so that way you can at least engage the Spheric program by yourself when you want to, rather than relying on the hearing aids to do it for you.
Tell him to set reduction of background noise to maximum and speech focus to 4 out of 5. That way I think you will really hear the benefits of its use. The Spheric program when 1st left to its default setting is not very aggressive in my experience, so may not give you the full benefit unless adjusted.

Loads of people on here should be able to help you with the app as well, but honestly one of the best ways to use it is to play around with the settings, it adjusts the hearing aids in real time, so you can actually hear what it’s doing.

Something else to keep in mind, you cannot override the audiologists programs with your own custom programs. So don’t be worried that you’ll break the programming on the hearing aids, you won’t :slight_smile:

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