No real idea how to use the hearing aid apps - both Oticon and Phonak

@Allen said:

app still changes my HAs to “Bluetooth Streaming +Mic” when I get any notification,

I don’t have that problem at all (Phonak Paradise)…
I have set all notification sounds to off on my Samsung S24+. The only time a HA program gets interrupted is when I get a phone call - and that is fine. It then reverts back to the previous setting. Works well for me - but if you really need those “pings” then I can see your problem…

I also use Autosense almost all the time (98%) so that may also be why you have your experience if you often select programs manually. The “ping” forces the “Bluetooth Streaming +Mic” program and probably does not know where to go after that? Just a thought.

@Allen said:

I could disable “audio” in the bluetooth connection on my phone, but then I wouldn’t be able to stream when I wanted to (though I would still be able to make and receive calls).

No you misunderstood me, I ment don’t bother with the App that’s all,and just use the buttons.

@Allen said:

And while I appreciate the attempt to help, getting “well, just don’t use the app” from a random internet forum user

Sorry if you feel hard done by, but actually not so random user, could be just a newbie question that maybe just overthinking it all.

@Allen said:

12 months after being told it was necessary by the person that I was paying a lot of money to for her “expertise”… well, that’s just not helpful

Actually it is, does it matter just because you “paying a lot of money” well you should of gone to Costco, but of course that wouldn’t matter, you still have a problem right.

@Allen said:

And it doesn’t address the issue that I was responding to, which was whether the audiologist should be expected to provide some level of training for the app that they are pushing.

It does because you don’t have to use the App, your beef is with the manufacturer and developer, I find the Apps so simple to use so I just don’t get why you think your hard done by in this situation, have you reached out to customer support, instead of trying some random forum site, so I’d also have a look at how you’ve set you phone for notifications as this where you should start, Happy New Years.

Thanks guys, interesting answers.

@Allen said:

my audiologist insisted that I download the MyPhonak app right then, and waited while I did so. She said that I had to have it to use my hearing aids.

Yeah, that’s odd. Maybe she thought that you specifically needed to download it because you’re techy. OR, given that she wasn’t 100% sure how they would be named when pairing, maybe she’s more used to different manufacturers. There are a couple where you do need to download the app in order to pair to Android phones. All manufacturers are sort of like one another but not quite. Though, I’m always surprised at how willing clinicians are to call the manufacturer in front of the patient. Some people posting on these forums have actually seemed a bit impressed by it, but I feel like if I have to do it it destroys the illusion that I always know exactly what I’m doing . So I call ahead of time.

But as others have mentioned or at least hinted at: The Phonak hearing aids flip over to streaming mode whenever there is audio. So when you pick up your phone, it’s not the action that causes the flip, there’s some sort of screen wake sound on your phone that is causing it. Turn off all of the incidental sounds your phone makes (screen wake, charging, key clicks, and any notifications you don’t specifically want to hear) and it will stop doing that.

@Flyboybob said:

Why should I, the customer have to figure some of these features out by experimentation instead of the manufacturer saying, “Wind over 20 MPH from the rear is the maximum wind sound reduction capability”.

I don’t think they actually have that sort of information unless they add the phrase “. . . in lab conditions for a dummy with an average N2 hearing loss using a closed fit” every time. The strength and impact of all features varies wildly depending on the acoustic coupling and prescribed gain.

Note, someone earlier mentioned throwing the spheric noise reduction settings to max. All noise reduction features are simultaneously cleaning noise and ALSO adding distortion. Trade-off might be bigger or smaller for different users depending on their individual hearing loss. When I set the sphere feature to max I hear some very distinct distortion, but it works for me set a bit lower. So this is just a caution that you need to play around a bit and setting all features to max can sometimes be a quick way to some pretty bizarre sound.

For any app I honestly think that the best way to learn how it works is to just press every button.

I don’t know how this has gone this far off of the rails, but I respectfully request that you go back and read the specific thing that I responded to, and then re-read my response.

The question was “should the audiologist be responsible for training the user on the app?”

My response was “yes” - if, as in my case the app was pushed on me without any explanation of the benefits (or lack thereof) by an audi who clearly didn’t know very much about it. I was then left to figure out how to make it work around my use case.

A “lot” of money is kind of relative. If I dropped $1097 on the ground and lost it, I would be pretty upset with myself. But I somehow doubt that Costco is going to sell me a pair of Lumity P90s for that price - which is what I paid to my HMO. So I don’t see how that suggestion is helpful. Condescending, yes - but helpful, not so much.

Ultimately I didn’t ask for help with the app. I was just sharing my experience as background for my opinion on whether the audi should be on the hook for providing some level of training on the things that they provide and/or recommend.

I think more time needs to be spent explaining the behavior of the hearing aid to a user, especially for something like Phonak because so much of the time, it is deciding what it thinks is right for you. That might work for some and not for others. Yes I do think training is required by the audi on the app, I don’t see who else could really do this. A compitent user could in theory play about with the app, I personally was happy to sit there fiddling with it, but a lot of people don’t understand tech and might be out of their depth trying to do this. As with all things, it comes back to time. How much time the audi is willing to invest with you, how much you can pay etc etc. The experience of audiologists globally seems to be so different for so many different people it’s hard to say what sort of service you’d get.

We’ve basically created another front of house role: essentially it’s a Techie-Administrator. You can use it as a career pathway to enter the system as a dispensing assistant.

They do all the FOH stuff, but with wax trap, receiver change, testing, charging and most importantly the ability to sort pairing/app and streaming issues out. It’s not perfect, but it unloads a lot of my time in respect of legacy phone problems. I’m going to move them up to doing firmware updates to the aids too: as that’s sitting around on a Noah fitting PC twiddling thumbs for 10 minutes too.

It’s a really good idea actually and it’s something that an unqualified but trained person could do. Personally I think HA’s should give advanced users the ability to update the firmware on their own at audiologists discression, but then I also think the ability should be given to control (within reason) multiple bands of EQ gain on the aids and all the compression settings but apparently the makers don’t agree

My Widex Moment HAs get firmware updates via the Moment app, with the firmware being downloaded via the Internet from some Widex corporate computer server - no need to go to my audiologist for firmware updates.

Oh yeah I’d forgotten about Widex, it’s very handy to be able to do like this.

Neville, I LOVE your question! It is deep!
Firstly, the phone app SHOULD BE considered essential in using the aids. To use the aid just to hear a fire alarm, or your partner in a quiet room, maybe not. But to get any satisfaction - in dealing with so many factors such as but not limited for example to:
Painful loud sounds,
Noise in quiet.
Intelligibility
Balance between streamed sound and ambient sound.

The best hearing aids, are mini sized computers. We owe it to ourselves to put in time to learn them, and their supportive interface - app. Also, you should practice changing parts that can easily fail.
IF you must rely on your hearing aids, no matter what, I would even go so far as to suggest that you have back up speakers, and know how to change them! Suppose one fails on holiday, or when you are away?

Regarding your main question as to what the dealer should consider their responsibility -
At the very minimum, point patient to a variety of educational links.
Follow up with patient that links were received and investigated.
Offer a FREE class once a month or so. This could be a great opportunity to really make a difference.
You can make it a social gathering. You can reward some more advanced patients, who can teach others… with an extra session at reduced rate for their help! Think how this could lead to multiple positive reviews for your business!
Another option MIGHT be to offer training sessions with your more costly units, and a sliding scale of training based on sale price of units.
BUT it seems like only a fraction of the hearing aid’s potential is often being utilized, either due to inadequate programming, or lack of concern to activate features. Many features also need tweaking, that requires multiple visits. And so often this is not stressed!

I don’t know how hard it really is, not any different from your rep in a electronic store, tv, smartphones, etc who need to know the basics, plus none of the Apps are actually difficult to use, remember these guys are supposed to have degree’s but most can’t even work out a basic App for the HAs they sell.

I agree that clinicians should know how the apps work.

What I question is whether clinicians should be terribly invested in teaching people who don’t understand how to use their smartphones how to use the hearing aid app. I would generally agree with IGZO that we owe it to ourselves to understand how our stuff works, but that doesn’t mean that most people actually do. Like. . . if you don’t know how to log into the apple store or how to close your background apps or how to restart your phone. . . to a certain extent if I’m going to teach someone how to use a specific app I would prefer they come in with an understanding of the basic functions of their phone to start with. And as you say tenkan, none the the hearing aid apps are difficult to use. If someone is minimally familiar with smartphones, app orrientation takes under a minute (and is barely necessary at all). But if they are not, we’re not teaching them how to use the app, we’re teaching them how to use their phones, and I think that’s the thing clinicians did not expect.

But this is a problem that’s in the process of solving itself as demographics change. A few years ago I spent a lot of time just saying, “Sir, it looks like you have about 50 apps open” and that’s not really a conversation I have that much anymore.

@Neville said:

What I question is whether clinicians should be terribly invested in teaching people who don’t understand how to use their smartphones how to use the hearing aid app

Yes I have to agree, I kinda overlooked that aspect in my post, if they can’t use a smartphone then obviously it’s pointless trying to show how the App could work for them.

@Neville

My dispensing person told me there was an App. I learned how to use it here. Phonak Audeo Paradise P90Rs. I got mine when they first came out.
I’ve learned doing YouTube searches too

I don’t think there’s enough time in an appointment to spend it learning to use the app

My regret is that I haven’t bought a noalink and tapped into the resources here using Target.

DaveL