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Novel hearing aid testing in different environments

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@tommsound said:

My goal is to put Genie on a laptop and adjust my hearing aids in real time.

@tommsound said:

I use macs so I have to invest in a windows laptop.

That’s the way, I’m sure you’ll be able to get them sounding acceptable.

Bootcamp or some other virtual machine will do it, but no ARM or snapdragon chips working with the Noahlink wireless.

@tenkan said:

Bootcamp or some other virtual machine will do it, but no ARM or snapdragon chips working with the Noahlink wireless.

I had to get rid of Bootcamp on my i7 Mac, with 32gb of RAM, slowed it down to crawl… Cheers Kev :wink:

Yeah I wouldn’t recommend it, just that’s it’s available if one wanted, a cheap windows laptop would be the way to go, some of virtual machine will cost a bit as well!

Yeah @tenkan that’s the way I went, I got a windows 11 i5 laptop for around £250 second hand, tis fast, but there isn’t much software on it, apart from Target… Cheers Kev :smile:

In reply to @Flyboybob

@Flyboybob said:

Acoustics, is a science unto itself. Noise sounds different in a restaurant with a hardwood floor verses a carpeted floor, or a high ceiling verses a low ceiling.

Totally true! And how our brains perceive or make sense of the sounds is another factor. Hearing aids are not like prescription glasses, cuz hearing is simply way more nuanced to the individual. The whole ear + brain connection is yet another factor to consider, and that can be impacted by a person’s age, mental fitness and even medications they’re on.

I am deafer than a cinderblock without my aids and have worn some form of aids for more than 30 years now, so I can really appreciate the technology improvements over time in sound quality and how “natural” they make things sound. With my hearing loss, my set-up is VERY compressed, not a lot of wiggle-room to get more bass or anything in the spectrum. Even so, my Phonak Lumity Life aids have been game-changers for my speech comprehension and quality of life.

I’ve also wondered why no audiologist has ever done speech-in-noise testing in the clinic?! I think this should be the end game when a person picks up the aids they just purchased and had set up. Without some kind of reality check, it’s up to us to get outside and run around to the mall, an airport, doc’s office, movie theatre, restaurant as fast as we can before the trial is over. DUMB. Some trials are incredibly generous, but in years past, I’d get TWO weeks max to figure out if the aids are working. I could barely get on the audi’s calendar for a follow-up let alone sit there all day tinkering with frequency settings till the aids made my world sound right.

The last pair of aids I bought, I had my older Phonak Marvel’s complete setup copy/pasted into the new aids to get me that much closer to perfection. I guess I share this experience to let others know: it ain’t over till it’s OVER. And we have to be persistent, patient, and prepared for several follow-ons if we rely on someone else to fine-tune our aids.

Geek Squad anyone? It doesn’t exist yet for us hearing aid users. Sure wish it did. I’d pay by the hour to get the accessories and settings optimal for my aids.

Thanks for this terrific reply. I assume that you agree that making a recording of various noisy environments is a waste of time and wouldn’t make much difference. Only the real world can check out how well a particular pair of hearing aids can suppress noisy environments and enhance speech.

In reply to @1Bluejay

@1Bluejay said:

I’ve also wondered why no audiologist has ever done speech-in-noise testing in the clinic?! I think this should be the end game when a person picks up the aids they just purchased and had set up.

Do you actually mean ‘testing’ or ‘assisting set-up with ’ ?

It’s a slightly different proposition: Testing needs to be objectively repeatable; speech in noise tests inherently aren’t, per the best opinions out there. ‘Assisting set-up with REM’ is a different kettle of fish: using speech validation and introducing a noise source is inherently straightforward. If your supplier doesn’t do this: consider somewhere else - especially for validation/troubleshooting the performance of hearing aid fittings.

I use track 8+11 above (with my own speech) to illustrate the speech in noise performance of the hearing aids. Plus it gives me (and the client) cues about feedback and over/under performance.

Edited

Remote programming whilst in a real world situation would be better. Phonak aids, from Paradise onwards, can do that. All that is need is for the aids to be connected to the Phonak App. A remote session is established which provided video, audio, and programming. All remotely, in any environment.
Whether it provides useful facility is questionable, as know no one reporting this has been utilised. But then likewise for the extensive suite of situational sound spheres that are available in the Phonak Target programming app for clinic use.

In reply to @Um_bongo

Costco actually does a real world noise environment test after your hearing test is completed. They will fit you with a trial pair of hearing aids and tell you to walk around their huge, and very noisy warehouse. The place is normally jammed with people and you can get a good idea of how the hearing aids will perform in noisy environment’s.

My hearing aid specialist told me to walk around near the freezer section so that I could experience hearing the sound of the compressor motors. Also, she suggested I listen to other people’s conversations, since I was by myself, and see if I could easily over hear what they were saying. She also suggested that I walk outside the building near the busy freeway, and to stand near the cash registers and listen for the chimes. It was a real world test. I assumed that she had the hearing aids set to the, “Hearing in Noise”, function. I was amazed at how well I could hear everything.

There are research labs out there with sound treated rooms with multi speaker arays that do pretty well.

But when we’ve tried to set up surround sound situations in the clinic . . . It’s still just too artificial and doesn’t seem to offer much more than you can get just using one or two speakers in terms of adjustment assist. You can’t really capture the real world.

Remote tweaks can work for that one specific environment. If you wanted your clinician to grab their laptop and drive around to different places with you . . . Everyone’s got a price :laughing:. I bet most would if you could cover their daily hourly cost.

In reply to @Um_bongo

@Um_bongo said:

Do you actually mean ‘testing’ or ‘assisting set-up with REM’ ?

I actually mean during the hearing TESTS (tone test, word comprehension). After being fit/aids programmed, I would like to return to my audi and take the very same tests to see what my hearing aided would be. Would it take me from Severe-to-Profound up to Mild-to-Moderate?

Could such a test ever be done so us customers would have PROOF that we made a sound investment? (Um_pardon the pun!) :wink:

@1Bluejay said:

hearing TESTS (tone test, word comprehension)

Tonal test: unaided - You play a tone, you hear the tone at a given level, tomorrow, I test your hearing, I get the same result.
Aided: play the tone and (depending on what processing is going on) you get amplification in some circumstances or if the feedback management kicks-in(or something else); the level is different.

Word recognition scoring is notoriously unreliable even for adjacent A:B testing, to the point of it being a largely meaningless measure of aided performance.

This is why we use Real Ear Measurements as they provide a repeatable results.

In reply to @1Bluejay

@1Bluejay said:

I actually mean during the hearing TESTS (tone test, word comprehension). After being fit/aids programmed, I would like to return to my audi and take the very same tests to see what my hearing aided audiogram would be. Would it take me from Severe-to-Profound up to Mild-to-Moderate?

Could such a test ever be done so us customers would have PROOF that we made a sound investment? (Um_pardon the pun!) :wink:

That’s an interesting idea, but I’m not sure many audiologist would agree to it. With my lack of success in seeing much benefit in my recently-acquired, expensive Phonak Sphere (compared to my free NHS aids), I even wonder if my hearing has deteriorated since
my (3 months ago) and my present assessment, which has taken a month so far.

In reply to @nsjmgm

@nsjmgm said:

But then likewise for the extensive suite of situational sound spheres that are available in the Phonak Target programming app for clinic use.

Are these easily downloadable? I seem to remember they aren’t included in the standard download. I may be wrong though :slight_smile:

Peter

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