Costco Kirkland Signature 10.0 (Product Information)

For me, it is more like the disposable battery, I had a pack of 8 batteries in my pocket always, in 30" they are replaced, 3-4 days carefree.

With rechargeable batteries, I travel frequently, I have to be careful not to forget the charger. I ordered a mini charger to always have another one in my suitcase.
In the end I got used to it. It’s worth it for the implementations that the aids have.

@Joaqui: Thanks for the explanation. I agree that - at first, at least - rechargeable hearing aids seem to have lots of disadvantages.

But I’m like you - I’ve gotten used to them and am appreciating the positive aspects.

@jim_lewis said:

On April 13th in this thread above Abram Bailey advised that the KS10 is not completely equivalent to the Phonak Paradise

Since the FCC-ID numbers are the same for KS 10 and Phonak Paradise, the hardware is identical, or someone is spoofing the FCC. That doesn’t mean they will perform identically. Any differences would be through the magic of programming.

There is one aspect to rechargeables that I would consider a benefit. So long as I’m placing them in a charger every night, I always wake up to a fully powered aid every day. With the batteries I have to carry around a granted small disc of batteries as they always seem to poop out at just the wrong times in the day.

@Joaqui Is it possible to monitor battery level via app while charging?

Yes, when the aids are charging in the case, they can be connected to the app and indicate the battery level.

@jim_lewis said:

Perhaps if Dr. Cliff gave that impression, he needs to update his video?

Why? We don’t know for sure what the situation is, there’s nothing worse then someone thinking they are the"authority" on this subject, it’s not helpful repeating the dogma, AB simply stated a Costco “employee” told him they weren’t exactly the same feature wise, this we already knew, not a single bit of evidence offered to show otherwise, here’s what we know about the KS10 aka Phonak Paradise, they share the same chip/processor and internal chassis, the same Bluetooth chip, and Phonaks own signature features, plus they use Phonaks Target software, plus can use Phonaks Rodger, so forgive most of us for thinking they are a very similar product in everything but name.

This is a good reason to be careful how and when you decide to add to a thread, taken from

The new Ks 10 from Costco, welcome to Paradise19

Costco went with Sonova for their new own brand Ks 10 hearing aids, good choice, the device are for all intent and purpose, Paradise 90 hearing aids

Which says in part

“I have taken a long look at the specs and features of the KS10 and there is no way to hide it, for all intent and purpose, the KS10 is a Phonak Paradise 90”

@jim_lewis said:

Just wanted to reinsert Abram’s update here with a link via the quote to his post to avoid creating misimpressions from anyone else’s posts (or videos!, etc.).

Well you just did! like there’s no facts in this story, we don’t know for sure.

I am picking up my KS 10s this upcoming weekend. I am also worried about recharge-ability. My current pair had zPower which was a disaster. Would work perfectly for a few months and then one would just die. I really hate the trend of non user replaceable batteries being installed in nearly everything these days. While I have the technical ability to replace batteries in my iPhone and MacBook Pro, historically Li-Ion batteries have a service life of up to 2 years.

Luckily the KS 10s come with a 36 month warranty, so I am certain that if the batteries start to fail I can get them replaced for free. I think there needs to be a regulation on all consumer devices that makes these batteries easier to replace.

@oetbyg said:

Since the FCC-ID numbers are the same for KS 10 and Phonak Paradise, the hardware is identical, or someone is spoofing the FCC.

The hardware doesn’t have to be identical. All that has to be “identical” is the expectation, based on the design and knowledge (and ideally testing, if you want to avoid problems with the FCC) that the RF frequency emission will be the same or less across the spectrum of possibilities. Just a basic external fact that Abram pointed out in the post that I refer to: THE POSITION OF THE MICROPHONES ON THE BODY OF THE PARADISE AND THE KS10’s IS DIFFERENT. Abram also mentions fitting algorithm is probably different. No Roger or Tinnitus management without going DIY or trying to get another HCP to work on a Costco aid (would this violate Costco warranty?). So yeah, the FCC ID’s are the same because the electronic design is expected to have the same or lower RF emissions but it hardly means the two devices are 100% functionally equivalent, as Abram pointed out - I’m just reminding folks who claim 100% equivalence that it ain’t so…according to the audiologist who runs this site.

@tenkan said:

there’s nothing worse then someone thinking they are the"authority" on this subject, it’s not helpful repeating the dogma,

Sorry. You’re the one on a high horse. See above in reply to oetbyg. If nothing else, the different position of the microphones likely means different performance w.r.t. wind noise. And no Paradise features like tinnitus management or Roger devices unless you make the extra effort to circumvent Costco’s limitations, which many “ordinary” users may not realize can be done. So for those folks, they are not buying an off-the-shelf functionally equivalent Paradise-like device for sure. You’re accepting Abram’s words but denying the exact meaning of what he said.

Just like the variation in the position of the external microphones, do the microphones and the receivers of the two HA’s have to be identical? AFAIK, microphones and receivers do not substantially emit RF, so there is nothing, AFAIK, to prevent lower quality (and/or lower cost) microphones and receivers to be used in a KS10 as opposed to a Paradise as long as there is no expectation that the RF emissions of the device will be changed. And so on for any other part of the device. Keep looking at the different microphone positions on the HA bodies as you claim 100% functional equivalence …

Don’t know if it’s a bad analogy or what. But consider the Lexus vs. the Camry. If you own the best Camry that money can buy, you might not care or even notice any significant difference from a Lexus. But there is a lot higher price point to get a fully-specced out Lexus. Perhaps the same thing is going on with the KS10 vs. the Paradise. The KS10 is so similar to the Paradise that most users in most everyday situations won’t discern any difference but perhaps to justify the much higher price point for the equipment and service at another HCP, Phonak is reserving the Lexus-like differentiators (Roger and tinnitus management, best fitting algorithm options?), to sell at a higher price point. Otherwise, it’s selling its HCP’s other than Costco down the river. Costco sells Toyotas, Dr. Cliff sells Lexus’s?!?

Yeah Catherine, although I am unfamiliar with Costco, I think they have a wee option to allow you to get your batteries changed, just before your warranty ends, someone may clarify this? Personally, I get the batteries changed in both my iPhone, and iPad as they degrade, gives them another couple of years… Good luck with the KS 10’s cheers Kev.

@cvkemp said:

I can even charge them if needed when I am away from electricity with the battery backup charger that I have that doesn’t shutdown after the aids are fully charged.

What battery backup are you using? I have been looking for a battery that does not shut down when nthe load is removed for another project.

Jim

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@SpudGunner said:

Wouldn’t one have to compare features in the fitting software to claim equivalency or to refute

Yes absolutely, but we already know they have as a few articles have stated, in target software they simply change the name but they do the same things.

@SpudGunner said:

but have very different firmware and software into them

Yes correct, so we know the software is Phonaks own target software, as for firmware version who knows, but whatever it is will be supplied from Phonak. Remember no one’s saying they are “identical” in very aspect.

I remember when Ford and Mazda were partners, same car different badges across some of their respective models.

@tenkan: I’m not at all well-versed in Phonak or Kirkland hearing aid details, but - speaking as a former marketing/business policy nerd - I find it hard to believe that Phonak would thoroughly cannibalize itself by giving Costco functional equivalents of its own flagship models (especially so soon after the latter were launched).

It just doesn’t make sense to my old, rapidly-dehydrating brain. I’m pretty sure that Phonak have a bunch of second-line product concepts that it would love to take to market, if for no other reason than to recoup their R&D outlay on first line non-starters.

These products can be expressed using Phonak’s current hardware platforms, because they would have been designed around the same architecture as the ideas that eventually made it to the front line.

The B-Team products might be superficially similar to Phonak’s leaders, but significantly different (not necessarily better or worse) a few layers below the surface.

My $0.02/YMMV