Skip to content
HearingTracker
Log in

Experiment with frequency lowering

This topic is closed.

28 replies2.1k viewsLast reply

Jump
Link to this topic
Edited

I did a little, non scientific experiment to see which technology worked best for me, and to see if frequency lowering technology would actually help my speech recognition. I used my LG Stylo3 + phone with a sound generator app to generate the frequencies. I held the phone horizontally, about a foot from my face. First, I tested without aids. I could hear up to about 3600 Hz. Next, I tried my furnished Resound Linx 3D aids with their frequency lowering tech turned up to the max. Results were about the same as with no aids. What I did hear was a little louder with the aids. Next, I tried my Phonak Audeo B50’s. SR2 was set to lower everything above 1800 Hz. I could hear up to about 7600 Hz. Big difference. Next was a real world test. I watched a movie without closed captions. Something I rarely do anymore. Without aids, I could understand about 5 to 10 percent of the dialog. With the Phonaks, this increased to about 30 to 40 percent. Better, but still not great. The down side was that the sound effects in the movie were uncomfortably loud, making me constantly ride the volume control. I had a conversation with one of my sons, and his voice was at times uncomfortably loud. A passing logging truck was very uncomfortable, bordering on painful. Frequency lowering technology, Phonaks at least, does lower higher frequencies into a lower range. In my case it did not help all that much with understanding speech. I will be the first to admit I am a tough case for aids. I have yet to try any that actually improved my hearing in any meaningful way. I was actually told by an Audiologist that there was little that could be done for me.

10 people in this conversation10 min readJump to latest

What are you using for molds or fittings? I’m wondering if you would have something to gain from very small vents to limit low frequency interference with the higher frequencies.

I can say that, for me, aids with technology make a dramatic difference in speech understanding and overall hearing ability. However, my brain has not quite adjusted to the odd sound of rain with the frequency lowering turned on.

Sounds like you could use more compression. Makes less difference between the loudest and softest sound. Either on regular program or on one specifically for TV.

I like the wide dynamic range. But, for TV/Movies, I turn on compression in the AVR instead my aids. In my AVR, it’s called dynamic volume and night mode or something like that. Does the same thing at the source rather than the destination.:smiley:

I am proud you did this experiment.
From your comments you need to lower all gains a couple . Stop the hurt. Continue your experiment. Hearing new sounds is challenging.

The Resounds have molds with vents. The Phonaks have open domes. I am going to adjust the gain downward a good bit. One of my main problems with aids is that if the gain is anywhere near my prescription, it is so loud I can’t stand it. One thing I am experimenting with is to turn off noise reduction and lower the feedback fighter settings to the point where I get feedback if I place my hands anywhere near my ears. All this is to try to get a more natural sound. I really don’t like how hearing aids sound. I have already adjusted the down from 122 to something like 95 dB. But, It is still bordering on painful. I have been fooling with the Phonaks for a couple of years now and I am almost convinced that there aren’t any settings that will give me good results. I frequently read where people using aids have very good results and are very happy with aids. That just hasn’t been the case for me. Those Resounds have been a complete failure for me. I intend to return them to the soon. The only thing I did like about them was the molds. They are quite comfortable. That was a surprise.

My right ear is sensitive to loud. This aid would pop, crackle and distort my speech understanding. It took me a while to figure this out by taking an aid out and seeing how everything sounded for a while. Once I realized that the prescription gain was too much for the right ear I lowered all gains for that right aid. The speech recognition is getting better now. More fine tuning is needed but things are getting better.

I tried same things with my Phonak Naida Core V UP and Oticon Dynamo SP8. I can hear sounds from high frequencies (bird songs, tonal sounds from electronics, etc.), but I whatever cannot hear “S” sound from speech, so no speech understanding improvements. So I think that mostly is a marketing feature for hearing aids sales raising.

The Naida Venture and Beyond aids have sound recover 2. It can lower frequencies much lower than your sound recover. It has been really good for me. Hearing S as well as all sorts of household appliances and vehicle noises.

@anon33641277
I believe your loss is too bad to hear "S"s. I don’t hear it either with SR1 or 2. But I do hear bird’s chirping only with Sound Recover. I have to set to at most 100dB in all frequencies otherwise it hurts. 90dB and 100dB is 10dB dynamic range at 2kHz - that’s too less to get useful distinguishable information :frowning:

So if remember that hearing aids are intended for speech, and intended for “S” sound only, frequency lowering is unusable for us. Bird chirping and electronics signals are side effect of frequency lowering.

In reply to @John_Green

Have you tried lowering all gain in Fine Tuning…/Gain?
Unhook the little chain holding the left and right aids together. Then you can adjust each aid separately. You probably already know this.

I can see open domes working for you.

Edited

In your case: If you don’t find a suitable adjustment then I would turn it off.

In my case there is no distortion. Within SR2 I have chosen “3d”, i.e. cut-off is at 1.1kHz max is at 3kHz (I had tried setting “1b” for a while, too). I play the piano and can hear up to (US-english notation) F5 = 700Hz without hearing aid and up to F6 = 1.4kHz with . The hammer “clicks” of my piano are too loud to hear higher frequencies. When using a sound generator I can hear up to 2kHz (=C7) with HAs (edit: 2kHz at its correct position. In fact sinus tones can be heard much higher at the lowerd frequency, but THAT sounds wired). (Concert pitch A4=440Hz). Phonak is doing its very well for a musician. Since I like to hear the birds I leave SR turned on.
If I had known the different approach of Oticon earlier maybe I would have tried that.

Oticon is doing transposition with light compression (as Pnonak does) plus composition, i.e. you hear lowered frequencies and the original sound at the lowered destination at the same time and you hear the lowered frequencies at their original position, too. With Phonak SR2 you hear either the transpositioned frequency and only there OR you hear the original sound but not both at the same time. Both approaches have their advantage and disadvantages. And not everybody like both variants. With Pnonak’s SR1 you get frequency compression all the time but no transoposition (=shifting).

Edit: Someone else already posted a link to a YT video to test your headphone (or HA):


With my Phonak Naida SP and closed silicone molds I can hear down to 15Hz(!)

Dani, is the a certain number of octaves? You said you play the piano and I wonder if frequency lowering was musically “tolerable”.

No, it’s not a multiple of octaves. Not even the compression is 1:2 or at least 1:1.5, it is somewhere in between. I don’t know how Phonak did the trick. But keep in mind that playing a specific note there is a bunch of frequencies I don’t hear at all. Don’t know what happens if I play flute or violin with no low freq part.

I have Phonak with a cutoff of 1100hz, which is pretty aggressive. I’m hearing a lot more speech and also birds!

Also, music sounds great. I don’t know how they do it, but it works. Every now and then I will listen to music that is very familiar and I might notice that one note, either an instrument or voice, is not exactly how I remember it, but it’s not bad. I just need to re-listen to everything to set the new normal.

I also use Phonak Sound Recover 2 with the cut off at 900 hertz. I am not a musician but do enjoy music. I have started enjoying music again after many years of not listening to it. As someone who has just about lost the ability to understand speech this Sound Recover 2 is fantastic. Along with speech comes all the sounds of nature and also household sounds.
My understanding of this is it’s for people who have lost their ability to hear the upper frequencies. If you can hear these upper frequencies with added gain, frequency lowering may not be for you.

Related discussions