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Linear Octave Frequency Transposition - LOFT

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I’m new to hearing aids, and I’m trying to better understand the technology before I make my purchase. A recent research article* I read, explains that Linear Octave Frequency Transposition (LOFT) technology is better at suppressing tinnitus. I can’t find any description in the websites of the manufacturers addressing what technology they use in the various models they sell. Does anybody here know which brands and models use this technology?

I tried demos Kirkland Signature 6.0 and Rexton Trax 42 at my local Costco today. The Rexton sounded a little better, but I wouldn’t mind saving $800 and go with the KS 6. But I have no idea if they utilize LOFT or not. Does anybody have any experience comparing the two models, and if they work equally well in a crowded environment?
Note*:
Peltier E, Peltier C, Tahar S, Alliot-Lugaz E, Cazals Y. Long-Term Tinnitus Suppression with Linear Octave Frequency Transposition Hearing Aids3. PLoS One. 2012;7(12).

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The Rextons will generally work better in a crowded environment. LOFT was pioneered by Widex, but now most major brands have their own variation of LOFT technology available in at least some of their hearing devices.

@JustinHIS said:

… most major brands have their own variation of LOFT technology available in at least some of their hearing devices.

Thanks Justin. How do I find out if the two models I’m considering have the technology?

In reply to @JustinHIS

@JustinHIS said:

The Rextons will generally work better in a crowded environment. LOFT was pioneered by Widex, but now most major brands have their own variation of LOFT technology available in at least some of their hearing devices.

AVR in Israel.

Widex developed it later/bought it in.

I’m betting on Widex…

@doubledown said:

OP post your audiogram and I will tell you which frequency lowering technology is best for you lost.

Resound, phonak, siemens, rexton follows the same approach for frequency lowering. All they do is compress sounds above a start frequency. Resound’s start frequency only gets down to 2.5 kHz and the compression ratio can only be adjusted to 3-4 settings. The other brands’ start frequency can go down to 1.5 kHz and have a slider to vary the compression ratio that can go as high as 4:1. I’ve wrote extensively about other technology on the market but you really need to post your audiogram. typically new users do not make the correct decision on choosing the right frequency lowering technology so post your audiogram.

Hearing Aid Forum - Active Hearing Loss Community

Hearing Aid Forum - Active Hearing Loss Community

you can do a search on this site for frequency lowering, linear frequency compression (lfc), non-linear frequency compression (nlfc), frequency transposition, frequency compression, frequency composition. this technology have many different names which is very annoying.

In reply to @doubledown

@doubledown said:

OP post your audiogram …
linear frequency compression (lfc), … frequency transposition, … have many different names which is very annoying.

I tried to add the audiogram16, both numbers and scan into my signature. I hope it works. But isn’t frequency compression different from frequency transposition?

You have a typical loss where aids from any manufacturer will serve. Just select on what sounds best to you in your price range. You can ignore the transposing info.

@KenP said:

… You can ignore the transposing info.

Thanks for the suggestion. Why should I ignore the transposing info please? I have tinnitus and the article I provided in the OP link, specifically found that LOFT is effective at long-term suppressing tinnitus, whereas classical amplification or non-linear frequency compression no such tinnitus suppression.

As Justin pointed out, all have some version of LOFT. Beyond that, your loss is a normal loss that can be fitted by any manufacturer.

Tinnitus doesn’t have a one-size-fits-all solution. What works for one won’t necessarily work for another. Premium aids – except those from Costco – have a tinnitus feature available. But as I said, results vary from individual to individual with no single solution. For many, the solution is to come to terms with it. You might see if a white noise generator helps. Those can be download from the Internet.

In reply to @gciriani

@gciriani said:

Thanks for the suggestion. Why should I ignore the transposing info please? I have tinnitus and the article I provided in the OP link, specifically found that LOFT is effective at long-term suppressing tinnitus, whereas classical amplification or non-linear frequency compression no such tinnitus suppression.

Wearing hearing aids does seem to help with the ringing.

I’m no expert in frequency transposition but since your loss is flat above 2000, there would not seem to be anywhere to move the sound. If they moved the 4000-6000 to 2500-3500, there would be no benefit because the loss is the same. You would have to move a greater loss to an area of lesser loss to get a benefit.

Also, 60-65 loss is well within the ability of all modern hearing aids.

In reply to @KenP

@KenP said:

… all have some version of LOFT…

Is there a way to find out what they have? I appreciate that everybody is reassuring that any would work. However, my initial question is finding out what the different models have. The manufacturers don’t reveal it, and in this forum, which is the most knowledgeable I’ve found so far, people either don’t know or don’t want to say it.

How about you doing the research and report back… email and visit the pro side of websites. Read the whites they have all paid for a doc to write. You would be surprised how much companies love to promote themselves. Did you always have someone else do your homework? Just highlighting your title and doing a search ended with pages of information.

@gciriani said:

Is there a way to find out what they have? I appreciate that everybody is reassuring that any HA would work. However, my initial question is finding out what the different models have. The manufacturers don’t reveal it, and in this forum, which is the most knowledgeable I’ve found so far, people either don’t know or don’t want to say it.

@Doc_Jake said:

How about you doing the research and report back…

I am doing my homework. I came here because I’m a beginner and I’m under the impression that there are people in this forum who know more than me. I went to the University Hospital close to me and at the library I’ve obtained and read the following articles; let me know if you’d like to get a copy. What I’m missing is the information about the hearing aids themselves.

[RIGHT]RICHARD W. CRUMMER, M.D., and GHINWA A. HASSAN, M.D.[/RIGHT]Diagnostic Approach to Tinnitus[RIGHT]. [/RIGHT]American Family Physician[RIGHT]. 2004.
Simpson A, Hersbach AA, McDermott HJ. Improvements in speech perception with an experimental nonlinear frequency compression hearing device. [/RIGHT]Int J Audiol[RIGHT]. 2005;44(5):281-292.
[/RIGHT]Linear Frequency Transposition: Extending the Audibility ofHigh-Frequency Information1[RIGHT]. Hearing Review. Published 2006.
[/RIGHT]Hugh J. McDermott. SoundRecover and its benefit for Hearing Instrument wearers with a moderately- severe to severe hearing loss. September 2008.

[RIGHT]Trotter MI, Donaldson I. Hearing aids and tinnitus therapy: a 25-year experience. [/RIGHT]J Laryngol Otol[RIGHT]. 2008;122(10):1052-1056.
McDermott HJ. A technical comparison of digital frequency-lowering algorithms available in two current hearing aids. [/RIGHT]PLoS ONE[RIGHT]. 2011;6(7):e22358.
Peltier E, Peltier C, Tahar S, Alliot-Lugaz E, Cazals Y. Long-Term Tinnitus Suppression with Linear Octave Frequency Transposition Hearing Aids. [/RIGHT]PLoS One[RIGHT]. 2012;7(12).
Levine RA. Tinnitus: diagnostic approach leading to treatment. [/RIGHT]Semin Neurol[RIGHT]. 2013;33(3):256-269.[/RIGHT]

In reply to @gciriani

@gciriani said:

Is there a way to find out what they have? I appreciate that everybody is reassuring that any HA would work. However, my initial question is finding out what the different models have. The manufacturers don’t reveal it, and in this forum, which is the most knowledgeable I’ve found so far, people either don’t know or don’t want to say it.

Daft question, but why do you need it? The practical application for transposition is when you have dead spots at 4-8Khz - your hearing is practically flat from 1.5Khz to 8KHz - there’s no benefit in you using it at all. All you will to is to clutter the lower frequencies and reduce your frequency resolution.

Some posters on this board have absolutely no idea of the real world efficacy and application of this type of technology. In actual fittings I’d say it’s effective in about 1 in 20 cases of severely sloping loss where the patient had a real desire to persevere for weeks to get ‘more’ from the aids. In the other 95% you just turn it off as people hate it. Your loss doesn’t even put you in the 95% IMHO as a dispenser rather than a keyboard wannabe.

@Um_bongo said:

… your hearing is practically flat from 1.5Khz to 8KHz - there’s no benefit in you using it at all. All you will to is to clutter the lower frequencies and reduce your frequency resolution.

My left curve is flat starting from 2 KHz, and my right is flat starting from 3 KHz. Therefore, if I understand correctly the papers I’ve read, the 2 KHz to 8 KHZ would be transposed to the 1-4 KHz range; because my 1.5 KHz hearing is already better than my 2 KHz, what I was not hearing before at 3 KHz I would be hearing it better at 1.5 KHz. You correctly remarked that what I was hearing before at 8 KHz would receive no benefit at 4 KHz; still a partial improvement is better than no improvement. Similarly for my right ear the transposition would benefit frequencies around 4 KHz that are now shifted to 2 KHz.

@Um_bongo said:

In actual fittings I’d say it’s effective in about 1 in 20 cases of severely sloping loss where the patient had a real desire to persevere for weeks to get ‘more’ from the aids. In the other 95% you just turn it off as people hate it. Your loss doesn’t even put you in the 95% IMHO as a dispenser rather than a keyboard wannabe.

I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. You are saying I’m not in the 95%; do you mean I’m in the 5%? Or are you saying I don’t need a LOFT? Please clarify. What do you mean by keyboard wannabe please?

@Doc_Jake said:

You actually expect access to the manufacturers proprietary codes?

I’m not asking for proprietary codes; just to know whether I have a 4 cylinder or a V6 under the hood. I’m new to the industry, but I have the impression that things are not kept transparent on purpose, so that it is difficult for consumer to make comparisons, competition is lowered, and pricing is kept at higher level.

I was saying you were outside the group of people who actually need it at all. Outside of the 100% of precipitous kosses where it would help. Transposition isn’t considered a good fitting idea with your loss as it will cause a level of corruption to your hearing that isn’t there now.

Some keyboard warriors/wannabe hearing aid dispensers on here have suggested this technology is essential combined with an unfeasibly wide broadband signal. In your case it would probably detriment your Audiological resolution rather than improve it.

In reply to @Um_bongo

Giovanni,
At times we overthink things here. Frankly, I would kill to have your numbers. LOFT Schmoft, I don’t need it. You a mostly moderate-sever loss that is quite fittable with any decent aid. You can trial the premium aids that have the tinnitus feature. If it works then pay the bigger bucks. It doesn’t work for everyone. Tinnitus is a weird animal. Haven’t met the doctor that know how to treat it or cure it.

What you need to do is find a good audiologist. Without one of those you have problems and dissatisfaction. Cost is the other bear for many. Do your searches here and you’ll find cost savings.

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