I am going to Costco tomorrow. It was almost like she sensed that, when I didn’t jump and buy the Widex. That is when she stated that Costco’s products are not at the premium level of the Signia that I trialed, or the Widex. I am trying to ascertain how correct that statement is, but frankly that negativity is somewhat of a turnoff to me, as a long time salesman.
I had the same experience with a private audiologist - who was trying to sell me $7,000 Widex aids. It was the price and the fact the aids she fitted didn’t seem to help much that made me walk away, but her exaggerated claims that Costco sells “years old” technology didn’t help her case.
I don’t see why anyone wouldn’t at least give Costco a try. It’s not as if you can’t return the aids without financial penalty and go somewhere else if you aren’t happy with what they fit.
You’re ignoring this member’s posts.
BlackyZürich, CH 2021-now // Berlin, DE 2017-2021 // HR origin
Most hearing aid professionals are average and use very similar methods. So, if your choice is between an average Audiologist in a private clinic and an average hearing professional in Costco
Except that from what I’ve seen people report here, Costco’s fitters follow best practices as a default.
While average fitter in private clinic probably isn’t. And their common method is manufacturer fit + ‘how do you hear me now’ method.
Good fitter in private clinic does follow best practices.
Best is the one who not just follows them but understands them and how hearing works and how loss works, and is able to advice you.
You ask them to tell you if they follow best practices. As a minimum criteria. Judging from the information, you’ll eliminate probably 80% of them
What are those? Check dr cliff aud webpage, under resources: https://drcliffaud.com/11
And be sure that you understand them (dig around his youtube as well and here on forum), that’s the only way you can be confident that your fitter is really doing them and not just saying they do but ‘not for you’.
While technically I wear hearing aids, I have no hearing loss. I am an Audiologist,
This is awesome!
What prompted you to do that if you don’t mind sharing? And in what exactly you gained by doing that? I mean, I as a wearer have some assumptions that fitter who wears aids can better understand how they really work, but so far I haven’t met any who do so, so that’s why I’m asking you, what you really gained by doing so?
A Provider isn’t excellent if you have to teach them how to help you!
And all other things you’ve wrote, I can only say ‘yeah, listen to this’, great great advice
However, you can do a lot with good provider who doesn’t know some aid in its soul. Mine is ‘just’ good. We work together, he doesn’t know everything, but also, he really knows a lot and is able to troubleshoot things. And he follows best practices to an extent they’re possible/billable here. In short, quickSIN or similar is nowhere to be found because insurance companies don’t take those results in the consideration. But that’s regional issue
However, what makes him my choice and I only can recommend him is that he’s extremely honest, so I know if he doesn’t know something because he tells me so immediately. Or why he doesn’t have some tests/further equipment. But also, questions I ask are probably more aligned with difficulty he had on his exams, and not your average customer. Not to mention that he openly talks about prices he has to pay for something, if I ask him. So we’re really great team, even though I wouldn’t say for him that he has one aid that he knows in its soul. He said that they’re basically all the same, so he works with whatever and provides same great results, and he approaches the software with understanding of what really happens deep down, not by learning by heart, which I think many do from what I’ve seen and experienced until I met him.
However, I do myself for all those options and I didn’t bother him with that, so I don’t know how well he’d be in it, since he didn’t touch that part. Options like - more/less directionality of mics, more/less noise block, more/less wind block, per program… That’s why I can’t say he’s utterly excellent since I didn’t use him for everything. He’s great for me, since we work together, and he’s totally on board with me DIYing and keeping him in the loop why I did something, and him making suggestions what I could try do to about some issue.
Just point - it is possible to have great fitter and great results for you even though your fitter isn’t satisfying formally all checkboxes from best practices list, but you both have to know why he doesn’t do something and what’s way around it eg how they ensure you get the best possible outcome.
@LawyerFL
However, speech based tests and hearing aid fitting plus after that speech based verification how aids work both with instrument and you doing test again is IMO absolute minimum you have to get.
Walk away really should be the first thing on your mind, not the last. They have to convince you they’re good for you to stay, and you should come with the assumption they’re bad. Unfortunately current state of the industry pushes us consumers into this being the better approach for us if we want to really get the value for that insane amount of money we’ll pay.
the Brio 4 is very close to level M90. They have different cases. They don’t have tinnitus features. They aren’t available in rechargeables and certain battery sizes. They’re also not the latest model, being more similar to Marvel than Paradise. However, they are still great hearing aids.
@timcorbett
I’d just add to this - tech level in aids is about software and hardware features (eg number of microphones), and not about the look of the case itself.
So, with phonak, level 90 means you get echo block and all possible programs in autosense, in level 70 you cannot have echo block at all, and very loud noise is possible only as a manual program.
50 and 30 have just one mic, so they aren’t able to provide same level of noise blocks or stereo zoom (where all 4 mics work together to eliminate noise from your back and focus on the sound directly in front of you), plus also they have less and less programs in autosense (that’s a automatic switch for programs).
Also with tech level comes/might come some reduction in software ability, like 30 will give you lower boost signal-to-noise than level 90.
So audi who says that costo’s aids are not on the same tech level as top original is basically lying.
And ‘highest quality’ definitely needs detailed explanations to be taken seriously.
I personally don’t consider those things MDB stated as different as giving better quality, but you or your audi might, that’s IMO more in the area of personal taste than of objective measure.
Eg I will defend regular battery all day long as a superior solution, while some will insist that rechargeable means better quality.
but her exaggerated claims that Costco sells “years old” technology didn’t help her case.
Yeah, that sounds especially funny when you put in context that actually are released every several years, roughly 4
So, unless you buy at the time of the release, you’ll always buy ‘years old tech’ simply because there’s no newer.
Marvel vs Paradise difference is negligible (especially for vast majority of users) and I haven’t seen USA or other audi who is able to match costco’s prices of roughly 1500 USD for a pair of KS9 essentially M90s.
Coming from a person who tried them both and learned a lot. And official price here is around 6000 eur for a pair No costco here.
I’d recommend KS9 to anyone who can get their hands on them.
I wear paradises but wouldn’t recommend them unless you REALLY need two devices simultaneously connected, which isn’t that probable if you’re retired (vast majority of HA wearers), and even if you’re working person, if you don’t need calls all the time, then probably you don’t NEED paradises.
Yes, paradises do have a new chip, but they don’t utilize it anything significantly different than marvels do their chip. I expect to see something really new with the next line, when paradises which are basically public beta testing for that chip age a bit and give feedback.
Belong was testing field for marvels (streaming to only one aid), which are polished well working product ( streaming).
My fitter honestly told me that he cannot match those online prices, but he pointed out service he can provide for his price. Which is why I decided for him among other things.
I think we don’t mind paying more if we really perceive we’re getting the value for that. Spitting on someone doesn’t show how you bring me value, quite the opposite.
I’d just add to this - tech level in aids is about software and hardware features (eg number of microphones), and not about the look of the case itself.
I mentioned case design for two reasons: 1) I like to try to be complete and 2) I’d read somewhere that Phonak put considerable effort into designing the microphone openings to reduce wind noise.
You’re ignoring this member’s posts.
BlackyZürich, CH 2021-now // Berlin, DE 2017-2021 // HR origin
They even changed them between marvel and paradises, not the shape but the position, one has more parallel another is a bit like V shape. I forgot what you’ve said which case KS9 uses though?
However, unless you say this, OP has no clue and honestly I didn’t pay attention why ‘case is different’ would matter.
So I’m glad that you’ve answered with more details
Wind noise, which the Costco audiologist could not bring down to non-annoying levels even after consulting with Phonak, is the only thing I find unsatisfactory about my KS9s. I wear headbands when outside if there’s wind because of it. I suspect the different case design of the Marvels would be better there, but for the price difference wouldn’t have gone for them even if it was guaranteed.
I think we don’t mind paying more if we really perceive we’re getting the value for that.
You have to factor in ability to pay. I did without hearing aids, knowing I needed them, for years, mentioned the unhappy experience with the $7,000 audi to my doctor (I went expecting a price of maybe $3,500, which would have been a stretch), and the doctor was the one told me to go to Costco, that more of his patients who wore aids were satisfied with them than with private audiologists. Only then was I able to afford aids. My first pair 6 years ago cost about $2,500.
True. I was comparing those who can afford audi price vs costco. Even if you can pay that doesn’t mean you want/should if you aren’t getting the value.
Of course, if audi is out of your range, then costco might be a lifesaver
I went from Widex very poorly fitted without best practices by private audi, to great fitter at Costco. Saved a lot of money with a better solution (Phonaks). Their money back guarantee is no risk. Availability for anytime adjustments or questions was another selling point.
Well, I step away from my computer for a few days and this whole post blows up!!!
I’d like to answer the question posed to my about what prompted me to start wearing hearing aids even though I don’t have hearing loss.
I have worn hearing aids very faithfully (10+ hours per day) for about 4 years. I would be lying if I said that bluetooth wasn’t a part of that decision. But really I want to be able to look someone in the eye and say that if I can wear them all day everyday then you can too. I have learned so much about the daily use of hearing aids and dealing with any stigma that can come. Frankly, I love that I have not actually experienced any stigma and that most people don’t even notice that I wear them. My patients typically like that I wear hearing aids. They know that I am going through the same experiences that they are and that I understand both the Audiologist side and the Patient side of hearing aids.
Dear Enoch,
I sure wish I’d had your advice 7-8 years ago when I bought my first pair of ’s. From a friend’s recommendation I used a guy that inherited the business from his dad. He probably didn’t have much training in hearing. I received the standard hearing test of the tones. My loss is from 1000 Hz up. I hated the HA’s from day one. Went back to him for 2 years every month if not more trying to explain to him my issues. He said I was the most persistent customer he’d ever had and that I made him learn more about hearing than anyone ever had. After one broke and he wanted another $2000 for it, I said that’s it. I didn’t wear HA’s for another two years. Finally after much complaining from my wife, I tried Livingston Hearing Center. $7000 for a pair of Starkey ’s. Standard hearing test of tones and Speech Recognition. I was impressed at first. After receiving the HA’s, same deal, over amplification in the upper frequencies. Continued to go back for adjustments occasionally for another 1.5 years with not much improvement. As others have stated here, the Audi makes some clicks on the program, hands the aids back to you and says “Hows that Sound”. " How the heck do I know, We’re in your quiet carpeted office". Not once did he say, "Lets put you back in the booth and do some speech recognition or simulate some environments. Luckily I stumbled on to this site and acquired the software, learned where to buy the hardware and programmed them myself. Now I can understand my grand children, understand the waitress in a noisy restaurant , wear them all day if I so desire, etc.
So, to all on this site, I hope you don’t have to go through the miserable experiences I have had with two Audi’s. You deserve better. Take Enoch’s advice and learn what to ask and when to walk out.
Sarge,
I’m not sure how to share any kind of contact info on this site, but I’d be happy to do a remote session with you. If you have the software and hardware to program your hearing aids, I should be able to compare your settings with your hearing loss to see if you are on the right track or if a few simple tweaks could be made to get you better long term results.
Let me know if you’d like to spend a few minutes looking over your programming.
Hello and THANK YOU SO MUCH for your most sensible advice. May I know in what city you have your practice? I’m a very old senior and a newbie and I went as far as taking a couple of hearing tests during the past 2 or 3 years but fear getting the wrong hearing aids - some of the testing audiologists seemed to be so uninterested… If you happen to live in NYC I’d love to have you as my audiologist and be fitted with the proper aids. I’ve been found to be “moderate to severe” and am still vain enough that I’m afraid to be seen with them unless the invisible ones are efficient and reliable? If not you, do you (or anyone in this thread) happen to know an audiologist in NYC as profoundly interested in his/her profession and as intelligent as you are? Anticipating big thanks for prompt response. :o)
nuevadela,
Wow, thank you so much for considering coming to see me!!! Unfortunately I don’t live in NYC, but my business model is actually setup to work remotely with people. I have clients all over the US, one in China and one in Scotland. If you’d like we could private message and discuss how I may be able to help you.
Hello Enoch, well said. You must be a provider? Audiologist? In what city are you? I hope in NYC… It’s difficult to find a knowledgeable provider for such expensive and complicated hearing aids.
I have auditory neuropathy (just learned the name) not just very low audio, as you well know, which makes it doubly difficult.
Oh Enoch I apologize for writing you again today, i guess I forgot I had written you on the same subject in March! I guess I’m a little nervous to do this by distance as it’s my first time…
This store was #18 in the Costco USA ranking of hearing aid departments in 2019, and they were #1 in 2020!
Just curious minded - where is this list? I’ve got several in a practical driving distance. I’m comfortable with the one I have an upcoming appointment with, I’ve seen him before. But it could be good information if I have follow-up problems.
I guess I’m a little nervous to do this by distance as it’s my first time…
NE Ohio