These Hearing Aids sound like a great step forward. It would depend on your hearing loss and what you want in a hearing aid the amount of benefit you would get. I like the idea of connection to multiple devices at the same time. It offers a lot of value in a hearing aid. I am disappointed that they removed the 312 battery version of the hearing aid with a teli-coil. I also like the remote meeting with the audiologists or fitter. That is a nice feature in the age of COVID 19. Sounds like an interesting hearing aid. I find it interesting that they don’t have a cross version hope they fix that in the future. I also like the tap feature is similar to the Starkey Livio Edge. They do the tap thing to activate some features. All in all sounds like a good hearing aid. emphasized text
I’m usually first on the block for the latest and greatest but am only one year into my M90-RTs and am super happy with them so I may wait a bit. I don’t need much of a reason to upgrade but I do need something. I don’t see it yet.
I still don’t understand talking to my phone to ask it to do stuff so that’s completely useless for my use cases (to be fair I’m not a customer for these anyway).
In every day life there are all sorts of mundane questions: what are the store hours, how far away is it, how long will it take to drive there and what is the traffic like? - especially during reduced service during the pandemic. You could get the answer from your computer or phone or tablet - but it takes time to input the query. If you just “talk to yourself,” you usually get an instant and quick answer, pretty much the same you would have gotten from asking your phone or computer via keyboard. Google will even automatically transfer driving directions to your phone. Or you’re going for a long walk and you want to know SPECIFICALLY how likely is it to rain at 6 am. Or since it’s your day to water your lawn during drought restrictions, how likely is it to rain today, the very latest forecast. Nothing to do but verbally ask a question, get an audio answer immediately.
There are also a multitude of general knowledge questions that come up in conversing with anyone. Again you can pull an answer out of the air a lot faster than you can whip out your phone or go to your computer (or look up a word in the Oxford English Dictionary, encyclopedia, etc).
I personally though don’t want to have my phone on all the time just to answer such questions but have various assistants scattered around the house to get the best answer I can to whatever at the time. If I happened to be wearing my ’s and happened to have my phone turned on, it would be great to be able to get instant answers through the HA’s. I remember as a kid the barrier to having to go to the library (or the World Book Encyclopedia or Webster’s Dictionary) to find something out. I think intelligent assistants just make it a lot easier to get answers any time you need them and quite often after a query they will put further supporting details, i.e., web links, in your search history details. You ask about a blue whale for your kids and you will get pictures and videos in the links provided in the search history to follow-up on.
For anyone who wonders about AI assistants, I recommend the movie Her with Joaquin Phoenix as a troubled person who falls in love with his digital assistant, voiced by Scarlett Johansson. Very entertaining movie for presenting a dark, disturbing view of where one can go with digital assistants.
You’re ignoring this member’s posts.
BlackyZürich, CH 2021-now // Berlin, DE 2017-2021 // HR origin
I’m usually first on the block for the latest and greatest but am only one year into my M90-RTs and am super happy with them so I may wait a bit. I don’t need much of a reason to upgrade but I do need something. I don’t see it yet.
I think the difference isn’t that big to spend thousands of dollars that soon. Paradises look like more polished marvels with some details that are more convenient.
Of course I have no clue yet about the revolutionary difference in autosense and such
Do the Paradise’s have improved input headroom? I had to use my backup Phonak Audéo Q90’s for awhile while my Oticon Opn 1 were being repaired. I was surprised at how good the Phonaks sounded for voices. And they are now, what, four versions old?
However, when I played my guitar I was reminded how bad the Q90’s sounded when playing music and singing. They sounded distorted just like I remembered. The Oticons, which have input headroom comparable to Widex, sound MUCH better for playing music. If the Paradises have better input headroom I will want to try them out.
Not sure what you mean by input headroom, but this sounds more like a fitting issue than a hearing aid limitation. Music sounds incredible on my Marvels. Blows ReSound out of the water as far as I’m concerned. Never used Oticons. Note that I have an ultra power receiver in which none of the bass leaks out.
Sorry don’t see how the '“new Pardise” is a great step forward. There are a few new features that look some what interesting but overall the “so called” aid improvements are all rather minor. Positives are more bluetooth connections, four channel (versus 3 with Marvel) and possibly motion sensing. Tap control sems odd since most hearing aid users have hair covering their aids. Especially women. From what I’ve read if you tap the Paradise with hair in the way it doesn’t always work properly. Gee - guess its time to get a crew cut or better yet an arch cut so nothing in between you and the Paradise. Clearer speech in quiet settings and improved noise conciliation is standard verbiage for every new hearing aid that comes out. Hopefully there’s improvement (over Marvels) in both categories but of course no one knows until aids are tested/worn by the buying public.
Being forced to use rechargeable batteries is a negative and posters have commented that the Paradise will still have to use contact charging. Then there is the question regarding the motion sensor feature which is limited to R an RT version. Though cost can vary significantly from dealer to dealer the Paradise seems to be priced very high, as if world economies are humming along perfectly and no one is out of work. Maybe the high price Phonak is asking is taking advantage of the delay in over the counter hearing aids. In any case the Paradise doesn’t seem to be all that different from the Marvel, and as we all know the Marvel offers way more sizes, battery sizes and rechargeable and disposable batteries.
Not sure what you mean by input headroom, but this sounds more like a fitting issue than a hearing aid limitation.
In many cases where sound are loud (live music is an example), the sound pressure level is higher than the input section (microphone, amplifier, and analog-to-digital converter) of the hearing aid can correctly deal with. In that case, the output of the analog-to-digital converter is a distorted version of the input sound signal. Older digital aids had limited headroom - some newer ones in about the last 5 years have been able to correctly handle higher sound levels without significant distortion. Oticon and some others switched from 16-bit to 24-bit digital systems and other used other methods to improve the input headroom. Every hearing aid has a maximum input level it can deal with and that is not changed by the fitting. I have OPN S 1 aids - this is a copy/paste from a document describing the features of the sound processing system:
The Velox S platform offers extended linear processing of sounds levels to an upper input limit of 113 thanks to 24-bit A/D converters on each microphone and the auxiliary input.
I meant to start a new thread. This is mostly a question for the pros: Abram? Rasmus_Braun? Um Bongo?
The best way I can describe input headroom is the difference between singing loudly through a cheap Radio Shack microphone compared to singing through a professional vocal mic. As with a Radio Shack mic, a with low input headroom will distort before the input signal ever gets to the HA’s processing circuitry when it tries to pick up a loud, overwhelming sound source like a performer playing and singing live music.
Widex HAs are favored by musicians because they have the ability to accommodate these loud sound sources. Oticon is good in that way too. Phonak’s (at least the 2013-vintage Audéo Q90’s) have low input headroom, so they distort easily and sound terrible for performing musicians.
This makes little difference for just listening to conversations but it is a very big deal to musicians. It cannot be fixed by programming. Phonak may have greatly increased their input headroom capabilities years ago. But it is really hard to get such technical information that doesn’t matter to the vast majority of HA wearers. I actually like the Phonak sound for speech but lack of input headroom is a deal killer for a musician like me.
Sorry you feel that way. It was a note to me. I just got them and they are great. Oh your statement about the price is 100% incorrect. They discontinued the 312 t coil version sadly but kept the size 13 feature version with a t-coil. You might want to fact check before you say something about price witch is a different story. They where given to me for the same price as the widex and other brands And older marvels. I have the premium. The nice thing is there are options to pick from to match your budget just like any other brands. Don’t know where you get your hearing aids from nor care but your statement doesn’t match my experience and what I paid. As someone who used a hearing aid from birth I think I know that well. If you don’t like a product that is fine but be accurate and fair. The only major difference I noticed in rechargeable version is it has directional microphones beside the other features in the premium package which are great. Due too my hearing loss some of those features are less useful than others. If you could get the new version for the same price of the old version I think you choose the new version. That is why I brought them. Also the Bluetooth improvements are really nice. You can connect to two at the same. There is a lot to like in the improvements made in the area of Bluetooth and conductivity. You where in another forum and did the same thing it makes me question your input. You do get what you pay for in a hearing aid. Price is a tricky subject and depends on where and whom you buy the hearing aids from and the services included. You need not reply as I will be blocking you.
As I understand it, currently my Resound Quattros use some sort of LE bluetooth that only works with apple devices and this is why they last so long on a charge even streaming etc.
I did assume at first that they would work with any bluetooth device.
You’re ignoring this member’s posts.
BlackyZürich, CH 2021-now // Berlin, DE 2017-2021 // HR origin
The only major difference in rechargeable version is it has directional microphones.
Again, not true.
Series 70 and 90 have 2 mics per aid, 50 and 30 have 1, afaik. I don’t know what exactly you mean by directionality, since as far as I remember there are some focusing options for all levels. Of course, higher you go, better it is.
But it’s connected to the tier not the battery.
You’re ignoring this member’s posts.
BlackyZürich, CH 2021-now // Berlin, DE 2017-2021 // HR origin
I decided I’ll test rechargeables to see if I have use for those features linked with motion sensors. And if I’ll be able to not hate them for their charger
However, if I’d bought marvels before this release I wouldn’t regret. I really am happy with them during my trial. I might even decide to buy them after trialing paradises if price would be significantly bigger for Ps and those features wouldn’t be that noticeable for me and if otherwise their hearing aid ability would be the same for my use cases.
I think price will be ultimate deciding factor in my case. I still don’t know it though.
Especially when I see the difference between battery and rechargeable model
Btw, update for my phonak app is released. Didn’t notice anything new though
Yes paradises have several features more, which makes sense, they need to offer something if they want to pay all those salaries, but I don’t think they’re worth buying if you already have marvels and are happy with them. Judging from the specs only.
Skipping one generation seems better money/value approach, unless of course, you’re loaded with money and can swap them every year or sooner (that includes manufacturer hopping as well, since industry isn’t fast paced like mobile phone one).
Okay thank you for pointing out some areas I didn’t make clear. I think they are clearer now. Have a great day. For the record I just replaced a set that was 11 years old.
It depends on how old your hearing aids are. My brother just updated after 11 years to the Paradise. I will be interested in how he likes rechargeable and the Bluetooth in his new hearing aids. If my hearing aids where less then 6 years old I would not want to get new ones right away. They are still under Warentee and service for less then that time where I get my hearing aids from. Like you said they are very expensive. I will also be interested in seeing what improvements they make to the app. It has some bugs in it but is nice. If you don’t mind me asking I noticed your id is Germany I was wondering if hearing aids had different features available based on different countries? Thank you for your time.
I find it interesting that they don’t have a cross version hope they fix that in the future. I also like the tap feature is similar to the Starkey Livio Edge. They do the tap thing to activate some features. All in all sounds like a good hearing aid. 
Texas Hill Country
Scottish Borders