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Phonak Paradise fitting for musicians and music lovers

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This may not be well known.
So I am imparting a HUGE finding regarding the fitting of my Phonak P70 aids to reproduce my Bechstein grand piano. But this will apply to any musician.
For months, I battled with Phonak’s fitting program Target 7 until I discovered “Whistle Block” which is Phonak’s automatic feedback cancelling module within its digital signal processing.
The upper harmonics of the piano’s sustained notes, were seen as feedback and were attenuated within the aids at about 200 times per second, creating a horrid buzzing modulation which I used to think must have been actually coming from the piano, that I had never noticed before, in the 42 years I’ve had the piano.
Luckily, I discovered that “Whistle Block” MUST be set to ZERO in order to stop this buzzing.
Now, it sounds beautiful.
But then of course, some real feedback needed to be addressed, which was easy enough, by dropping the G50 gains in the offending frequencies, which for me, was achieved in a few minutes, around the 2kHz to 4kHz area.
If you don’t do your own fitting, just tell your audiologist about this.
I have only applied this to my “Music” setting, and have left “Whistle Block” active in my other settings, as it may actually enhance consonance perception in speech.
It has totally changed my world of music, and I hope this becomes well known, as it needs to be.

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It’s already well-documented and known, you can see plenty of posts on this very topic.
Actually the default settings for a music program should be off for all extra features.

All good, I mean you’ve done well in sorting your own situation out, finding the right frequencies and then the feedback, nice.

Edited

Ha… thanks. I use a frequency generator app on my phone, on low volume, to initially set the gains for each ear until all is balanced nicely. Be aware that this tool is useful from 10kHz down to say 150Hz, as you’re dealing with the limitations of the phone’s tiny speaker. But it’s a major starting point.
My audiologist was loathe to adjust the (Maximum Power Output), but I find it to be essential early on to avoid loud shocks; but that’s another topic.
Generally, self adjustments via Hz awareness, is indispensable.

I truly appreciate finding your post. Well done.

This is amazing! I experience a weird buzzing with no other sound when there are high tones (on my KS9s). I have always assumed they were sending sounds that my ear cannot hear (because I have profound deafness in the very highest range) and it came through as only a buzz like a blown speaker (only really high). I’m going to have the costco audiologist try turning off feedback and see if the buzzing goes away. :heart: :orange_heart: :yellow_heart: :green_heart: :blue_heart: :purple_heart:

Edited

It sounds like it’s worth a try.
“Whistle Block” is under “Fine Tuning” in the Target software fitting program, and has a range from 0 to 20
Even at 1 the “metallic buzz” was very noticeable.
Hope you get good results.

Very interesting, I’m a new user of Phonak P90s, would I be correct in assuming that the whistle block would be already turned off if I select the music program?

@David1959 said:

assuming that the whistle block would be already turned off if I select the music program?

It’s set to weak in the music program. I remember seeing an 8 on mine that the software set. Max is 20.

Quite right, it’s set to weak which is 8 of 20. I’ve set it to zero on music and cannot notice any difference on HiFi playback. It’s as superb as it was before the change. I cannot comment on live instruments, just on the HiFi playback.

It’s 9 months since I last went into Target.

That’s interesting. I never listen to music through speakers; only my piano or via Bluetooth which is direct (no Whistle Block).
I imagine Whistle Block constantly looks for upper lone frequencies above say 3kHz, that have stable duration, just like the harmonics of piano strings.
It’s possible that most people wouldn’t be bothered by the artifacts that Whistle Block produces, simply because they’re unaware of what the original tones actually sound like.
So maybe this topic only concerns pianists, violinists and Hi-Fi purists.
But with piano, it’s like turning off 50% distortion in the offending frequencies.!
Unfortunately, I’m not exaggerating.

@tallowbeach said:

I imagine Whistle Block constantly looks for upper lone frequencies above say 3kHz

You can have feedback issues in the lower frequencies as well, depending of course on ones hearing loss, so whistle block will look there if it’s needed.

@tallowbeach said:

It’s possible that most people wouldn’t be bothered by the artifacts that Whistle Block produces,

I think most people including myself find it bothering, I eliminated the need to use this feature by having custom-made molds with a tight fit, so eliminating the leakage.

In reply to @tallowbeach

@tallowbeach said:

It’s possible that most people wouldn’t be bothered by the artifacts that Whistle Block produces, simply because they’re unaware of what the original tones actually sound like.

I believe this is the single most important factor that sadly permeates all of these many threads on music and hearing aids. This was the subject of my first posts here many years ago. I do believe that the newer aids are better and more accurate. Still, I stand by my many assertions over the years that they are still not ready for truly accurate representation for serious musicians. When they are, I will be first on line to get them.

My piano now sounds phenomenal through the Phonak P70s. I’ve never been aware of audio-addiction before…
The phase definition and spacial transparency and volume headroom too, are amazing. So I think (in my case) it’s now only dependent on my Power Dome seating, to ensure maximum occlusion, thus minimal feedback.
Any leakage will compromise the above attributes, before any feedback becomes audible.
Sound quality requires occasional Power Dome re-seating, but it’s well worth it.
So I believe hearing aids are already there, or close enough, as long as Whistle Block is totally disabled and any resultant feedback is treated conventionally.

In reply to @tenkan

@tallowbeach said:

It’s possible that most people wouldn’t be bothered by the artifacts that Whistle Block produces,

@tenkan said:

I think most people including myself find it bothering, I eliminated the need to use this feature by having custom-made molds with a tight fit, so eliminating the leakage.

I’m one of these people. I’ll listen to music with any program and it all sounds the same. I don’t know what I’m missing as I’ve never had full hearing.

My friend tho who was born hearing, knows what she’s missing and is always getting her Phonak Naida B90 UP adjusted.

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