Phonak Spice

OK, time to fess up. I"ve been lurking and learning on this thread for a month, and I want to thank everyone for educating me. A special thanks to JordanK who got me addicted to this thread with his detailed reports. Other great ones followed that example and have been most helpful.

I had a one-ear CIC from about 10 years ago that simply didn’t work for me. Occlusion, feedback–finally gave up and didn’t wear it. Hearing got worse, so I decided to try again. Being retired military, I am eligible for the RACHAP (Retiree At Cost Hearing Aid Program) through Walter Reed. A huge help!

On Nov. 5th, I had my first appointment, and the AuD ordered Phonak Audeo S Smart IX’s for me, but I didn’t know what they were. I came home, searched, and found this thread. I got educated and was prepared for yesterday’s delivery and initial fitting (appointments are hard to come by–in fact, my next follow-up is late in January).

The AuD says I was the best informed of any of her patients (I’m not sure she views all of that as positive. . . the appointment took two hours). Thanks to all of you guys.

She wanted to program only two slots (AutoZoom and Speech in Noise). I talked her into filling all five slots since I knew it would be awhile before seeing her again (she had not ordered any accessories but MyPilot is now on order, and I’ll call her in a few days to tell her if I want iCom).

She programmed (1) Zoom Control (left/right); (2) AutoZoom; (3) Speech in Noise; (4) StereoZoom; and (5) Acoustic Telephone. These will change when I get the remote, of course. If I could change it right now, I’d put StereoZoom in the second slot (quicker to get to).

I might note that she says Speech in Noise is essentially a +/- 45-degree (my estimate) beam in front. Much wider than StereoZoom. That means that it will pick up a lot of background noise that is in front of you within that beam, but cuts out noise to the side and behind. That may be why most are dissatisfied with it. I think it’s mis-named and raises expectations. If they called it WideBeamZoom, we might learn to like it.

When I pulled out of the parking lot, I noticed a new feature on my car: when I select a turn signal, it clicks! I didn’t know that. A mile down the road, I noted that the radio sounded absolutely terrible. I realized that I’ve always (for 40 years) turned the treble all the way up and the bass all the way down. I put them both in neutral, and it sounded great! Got home and started watching a football game on TV. I got up and found my wife at her computer and said, “Honey, did you know that those referees on the field have whistles?”

I went to a noisy restaurant with a group of a dozen this morning, and I could hear every conversation (in Auto mode… not AutoZoom), regardless of where they were seated. I’ve got two words for that: In Credible.

I’ve played with the modes but have left it mostly in Auto, as she suggested. I have not noticed it switching programs at all so far. I notice it processing road noise (reducing it), but nothing annoying at all! (I asked her how aggressive she had set the switching, based on you guys’ comments, and she said, “Not aggressive at all.” I don’t know any settings, though.)

She said that her patients use ZoomControl (to the side where they have a phone receiver) for phone calls and did not want to put Acoustic Phone in there. That mode seems to turn the right side on full blast, but the left side is really cut down, regardless of which side I place the phone receiver. Either it’s programmed wrong or I’m not doing it right. I prefer to use my left ear for the phone (being right-handed), so it’s not working for me. I’m seriously considering getting the iCom (which she was not fond of).

Notes on the fitting: she wanted to use SlimTips for me because I had complained bitterly about occlusion from my CIC. The fitting software (REM) could not reach the “targets” for my right ear. So she had to go to the power receiver for that ear. That receiver will not fit into the SlimTip and that is not an option in the Target software (she’s sending the right one back to have it re-made in some form to accept the power receiver). So, she went to the power dome and put a dome on the other side, also. I’m not sure the standard dome is the right size, but I’m only 22 hours into this, so I reserve judgement for now.

Bottom line: you guys helped tremendously in my understanding of what we’re dealing with, what to expect, and what great instruments these are. The aids themselves are nothing short of phenomenal. I thought it would take me weeks to get used to hearing again, but I’m sold already. I’m sure we’ll fine-tune, and I may even find something I don’t like downstream, but I already know that this technology is fantastic, and I’ve already convinced several friends from breakfast this morning to look into them.

Perhaps I should ask for a commission. . . .

Thanks again to everyone!

Interesting your information that speech in noise is a beam forward.
That would explain the difference to the oticon agils speech in noise.

I am in the late weeks of my tests and decided for the Phonak Smart IX.

In addition I make a try with the xpower receiver in my special earpieces.
They are much bigger than the standard receiver. The standard receiver is not so much visible. The xpower is a dark grey spot in my ears.

So I test both (standard and xpower) with the smarts now.

@German said:

In addition I make a try with the xpower receiver in my special earpieces.
They are much bigger than the standard receiver. The standard receiver is not so much visible. The xpower is a dark grey spot in my ears.

So I test both (standard and xpower) with the smarts now.

Hi German,

What do you mean about the xpower being a dark grey spot in your ears? I am supposedly getting these (whenever they eventually turn up) and I don’t like the sound of them at all the way you have described them. She didn’t mention anything like that to me but then again I don’t think she would know.

@davidbarry said:

Hi RonnieG, I’m still wearing the core Smart IXs and I also found the comfort in noise is the program that is really bad as per your description. Since you can’t get rid of the program in auto mode, my audi came up with a great solution: have your audi program comfort in noise using the exact parameters as used in speech in noise. Then when it automatically goes into that mode you no longer have that occluded-plugged-up-muffled background-noise-feeling.

Davidbarry,

Thanks for the tip. I’ll add it to my list of suggestions for my visit with the audiologist and the phonak rep next Thursday.

Ronnie

Ok here it goes. I am really happy with all of your success and hope for the same.
Its my second fitting. Got the Pilot one remote. Adjusted the switching aggressiveness in Soundflow. Much better. BUT…
All i have on my HA’s is Automatic Soundflow. manual zoom left and manual zoom right in the Two top slots. Program Three is supposed to be StereoZoom(it does not work)and i have three beeps twice in a row before i hit soundflow. 4 would have been Duophone but we ran out of appointment time and it does not work. 1 hour appointments.
I see you are all gasping how this could be. I was his first client with the Spice Platform.
First fitting i had just soundflow, calm, speech in noise and music. Audi did not understand how to give me Sterozoom, Autozoom, Duophone and Manualzoom.

He is trying to set me up with his rep, so to get together and get this right. He told me via email yesterday his Ambra Client is doing well. Hope

Maybe because He did not enter the coupling (slimtip info) and use the feedback manager to start off first time. Because now i have learned that target does not see a slimtip option with power/superpower receiver. Oh Brother!!! Is this True? Does anyone know for sure? The receivers fit well in the slimtips. My slimtips are over a year old though, have they changed??? He struggled to get one receiver in and damaged the wax guard just slightly but not impairing the flow of sound…

But i am doing well with these aids. Tonight i was out skiing and in a noisy resort restaurant with a band playing. I heard well enough with my normal lipreading except when the band was playing. Soundflow did well. Very little program switching and at many points i could really hear my friend well in front of me. The band was in back of Her. Not smart on my part but……i had no stereozoom or speech in noise program.
Here it is Holiday season with a load of different activities and perfect new HA testing grounds and i am no where near where i should be at this point. I envy you all!!!

I don’t think I will be able to sleep until I post this… I did another round of programming of my new Ambra and just reinvented my hearing. Yes, I am 100% satisfied with the performance of Ambra and I have no words to explain how I am feeling. This is the kind of hearing aid I have been waiting for last 15 years.

Earlier today, before I reprogrammed it, I was having some speech intelligence issues and I was little bit upset. But I kept on playing with the new fitting software and the automated fine tuning section advised me to lower the compression ratio, but that worsened the speech quality across all programs. I was almost thinking of returning the HA, that’s when it strikes in my mind that removing UCL data would automatically lower the compression ratio and yes, that did the magic for me. I will post more info later on Target programming tips… stay tuned.

Now let me sleep, it’s 2:30 AM in the morning, not sure if I can sleep… I am to much excited

Hi rkaramel

Brilliant post:D

I did not ever think I would see the day that someone “HOH” would refer to a set of HA’s as being “100% satisfied”!!! This thread gives so many people hope, keep up the good work guys and girls:D

Cheers, Kev:D

@ DaisyD

First I had the standard receiver in Oticon and Phonak. My special earpieces are made for the standard.
My audio wanted to give me a try of the xpower. The xpower are bigger, but she managed to get them in the earpieces. But they are not only bigger, they are also longer. And someone sees my ear from the side, he could not see the end of the standard receiver. But the xpower is longer and you can see the end of the receiver as a dark grey spot.

xPower:

vs standard ( I have no other pic)

There’s a beige insert to replace the back plate of the receiver module. I’m surprised they haven’t fitted it.

Thank you for information. Maybe because it is a test. But I think it would have been no big work to do the insert.

Receivers come in different lengths. 1x,2x and 3x. It has nothing to do with std vs power. The length is usually stamped on the side of the receiver.

Had an opportunity for three significant tests yesterday: driving with four people in the car talking; football game (Army-Navy. . . We won); and restaurant.

In the car, I used Auto mode mostly, but also ZoomControl-Right. ZoomControl cut almost all of the remaining road noise (much was already cut out) and made voices standout very clearly. It also reduced the sound of my own voice. Not objectionable, but it caused me to want to speak up a little, which might be OK since the other folks are hearing all the road noise that I’m not hearing at all! In the past, I simply could not carry a conversation with people in the back seat. Now, I can, very easily. [Side note for mstrmac: Tell your audie that ZoomControl left and right should be in a single program slot. To get the left mode, you enter ZoomControl by pressing the left button; for the right side, you enter the program by pressing the right button. You don’t need two slots. Recommended to be in the first program slot.]

In the very noisy environment of the game, it was overwhelming at times, particularly on the right side (power receiver). In fact, at the worst times, I’m pretty sure there was a solid “scream” on that side, like feedback. Other sounds were there, too, but it was very annoying. I could still pick out voices, though. All this was in Auto. I tried other modes, but nothing changed significantly. It was so loud that I could not hear the tones to tell what program I was in until I got to Acoustic Telephone, which is even louder in the right side (the only side that it works on). Then one more press got me back to auto. [Another side note: you cannot press the button five times and be where you want to be. Apparently, it has to wait until it has actually shifted to each program before it will recognize the next button press. To go from Auto through four programs to get to Acoustic Telephone–program #5 in my setup–I have to wait a second or two after each button press, which takes between 5 and 10 seconds total. A problem when trying to answer the phone.]

A friend was sitting to my left during the game, so, with all the surrounding noise, when he would comment, I could usually understand him. I tried ZoomControl left, but it didn’t seem to make a huge difference. I suspect that there was significant noise input coming from beyond him to my left that just kept it overwhelmed. Even so, Auto made it possible to function “OK” in a very difficult hearing environment. I believe, without these aids, I would not have been able to understand him at all.

I would have liked a remote control to turn the volume down. And to select programs without having to guess at the tones.

The restaurant situation was wonderful. Background noise but not really loud. We sat in a relatively quiet alcove where I faced a wall beyond our table, with a table with four kids to my left and the rest of the restaurant to my right. Auto mode handled it all perfectly. In fact, on second thought, I’m not sure it was a quiet restaurant since it was very crowded. It just seemed that way. No problem communicating with anyone, including the waitress!

Regarding Auto mode and not hearing it switch programs: I still don’t hear that happen at all. Perhaps someone can chime in and tell us whether this is correct or not, but my take is that Auto mode doesn’t actually select from among all “specialty” programs. I “think” that it just processes all the sounds and tries its best to pick out voices and clarify them. In other words, I don’t think it’s choosing “Sound in Noise” vs “AutoZoom” vs “Music”. If one can hear a sudden change in sound, I wonder if that’s simply because of settings within Auto, rather than it actually selecting a new “program” or “mode”. Does anyone know? I hear no sudden changes, and it’s doing a great job of making things understandable in a variety of environments. That’s the way we’d all want it to be, of course, and it appears so far that mine has hit that sweet spot.

My left wire is 1/8 inch too short. That pulls on the receiver/dome and causes it to slant downward, reducing slightly the sound I hear from that side. Even so, both sides are so comfortable I forget they’re there. I dread the day I step in the shower with them on. . . .

Still LOVING these S Smart IX’s.

[Like Thomas Jefferson said, “I apologize for the long letter. I didn’t have time to write a short one.”]

@kathrein said:

Hello rkaramel,
which Phonak AMBRA have you tested ?
BTE (Micro M, Micro P, Micro SP) or ITE (…, 312 UZ (M, P, SP), …)?
Standard tube or slim tube?
How did you remove UCL?
kind regards
kathrein

microP with standard tube.

I created a new client session and entered the audiogram data, didn’t enter the UCL data. I tried removing the UCL data from the existing session, but that didn’t work well. Also, do the feedback test only if necessary, I saw applying feedback test results was increasing compression, though I haven’ seen much of difference in feedback before and after.

One other suggestion, if you’re programming your HA by yourself, it is better to create a new client and new session every time when you’re experimenting different things, my observation is that changing it in the same session doesn’t really give you the optimal result.

Hi all,

I’ve now been using the Audeo S Smart IX’s for a week and thought I’d provide an update on my experience and initial impressions.

Overall, I’m really happy with the capabilities of these HAs. Especially in noisy environments and situations, they are able to isolate speech and allow me to follow conversations that I think I would typically be shut out from – even without a lot of fiddling with programs and volume settings (leaving them in auto, for the most part, works really well for me).

I’m also really impressed with the wireless capabilities – both binaural sound sharing between the HAs and also their interaction with the iCom and TV Link. It’s so great to have my mobile phone, computer and TV sound all pumped directly into the HAs.

My next appointment is a week away. There aren’t a lot of adjustments, I’ll be requesting except the following points:

1. Isolated Feedback
   As I mentioned in my earlier post, my audiologist disabled whistle block on my right side to be able to get more from the HA with an open dome. This isn’t working well. I get quick clips of feedback throughout the day, generally in quiet situations or at the moment someone starts speaking from quiet . Annoying, yes, but it doesn’t happen so often that I need to make a special trip to have it adjusted before the next visit.

I think I may ask to go to the new “torpedo” tip in my right ear just like my left. I really like this new tip. It doesn’t give me an occluded feeling and seems to provide a good range of sound. I want the tip not only to avoid feedback but also because I want fuller, richer sound than I’m getting now.

2. Fuller, richer sound
   In both ears, everything still feels a bit “trebly” for my liking. I thought this might be something that I would get used to as I adjusted to the new HAs, but I’m missing a bit of bass, both in general, and especially as I listen to music with the iCom (via bluetooth and also via direct connect). Maybe, I’m being greedy, but I’d really love for these HAs to substitute for a good pair of headphones when I want to listen to my iPod.

I’ll be sure to discuss this with my audi. I’m concerned that the HAs are pitched more to the higher frequencies to help me with speech. Don’t want to hurt comprehension, so I can better appreciate music. . .but would love to have it all!

3. Speech in Quiet
   I work in an office building. At times, when I’m meeting with a colleague in a small office, the conversation seems a bit too loud and almost too “crisp” (verging on being distorted or over-processed, especially with “ssss” and “shhhhh” sounds. In larger offices, things are really great. Large conference rooms are also fine, but I have found myself adjusting the volume for colleagues speaking at the far end of the room from me (I leave the HAs in Auto as I haven’t found liking AutoZoom in conference room situations. As the HA tries to zoom to follow the conversations, it all feels a bit too artificial for me – I lose the organic quality of the group exchange. . .).

4. iCom Adjustments
   Right now, the iCom has a delay as it activates, so I will sometimes miss alert tones on my computer. I’ll hear the iCom activation tone followed by the disconnect tone - but no computer alert in the middle. I’d like to see this delay adjusted, if possible.

Another change on the iCom, I’ll ask for is more “headroom” It sometimes doesn’t give me as much volume as I’d like.

I’ll also want to be sure the iCom programs are set for fuller, richer sound (more bass)

Lastly, I’d love to have a program that would enable me to listen to music or phone via iCom with the HA’s external mics muted. Right now, in noisy situations (like on the subway), The HA mics are picking up and sending through so much ambient noise that I can barely hear my music. It really degrades the experience I’m looking for.

Other Observations
While Auto works really well, I love StereoZoom for one-on-one conversations in noisy environments. It is pretty incredible. I can hear things when my friends with normal hearing have trouble.

I’m getting used to the DuoPhone feature - learning to hold the phone correctly so my HA picks up the sound and can stream it to the opposite ear. I’ve set DuoPhone in my first program slot to make it easy to get to quickly when the phone rings. . .Don’t use it all the time but, for now, am glad to have it.

I wish for a more streamlined “kit of parts”. Right now, I walk out the door with my HAs inserted, the remote in my pocket and the iCom in my bag or around my neck. If I can’t get fuller, richer sound for music, I’m also going to need a pair of headphones. Feels like too much clutter. I’m bound to lose something. . .

At minimum, I’d love to see Phonak combine the remote and iCom into one unit that doesn’t have to be worn around the next but that could stream to the HAs as long as it was in proximity.

Hope this is all helpful. I’m grateful to all the other reviews that preceded my trial. They were incredibly useful to me, and I want to pay them forward. . .

Chris