Skip to content
HearingTracker
Log in

Question about Hearing aid channels

This topic is closed.

23 replies3.3k viewsLast reply

Jump
Link to this topic

Hey,

Now, Evoke 440 has 15 channel. If i wanna compare it with another product, i have to compare it with a product have the same channels ?
For example, Evoke 440 vs Phonak M70 or it won’t be compared like that ?

And what’s the difference between 15, 24, 20, 64…etc in the premium performance level for the manufacturers ?

7 people in this conversation11 min readJump to latest
@Mustafa said:

i have to compare it with a product have the same channels ?

Not really.

Remember when radios said loudly “9 Transistors!”? (even “7 Tubes!”) Sometimes the “added” parts didn’t do much. (A few, nothing at all, until the FTC told them to stop exaggerating.)

The most common hearing losses suggest 2 or 3 channels for best volume compensation. Noise discrimination suggests a few more. At 64 channels you have to wonder if they really know how to use that much control; it seems to be an evolving field. (There is SO much about understanding speech that we don’t know yet.)

More channels should be more adept at handling more complicated situations. But don’t take it as literally as buying eggs or beer- two dozen is not twice one dozen, a 24-pack is not four 6-packs.

So if i wanna compare Evoke 440 “15 channels” with another product, it’s not necessary to focus on channels, because at premium performance level the overall performance is equal in use of channels ? like it doesn’t matter if this product have 15, 24, 20 or 64 channels !!

Edited

A good set of algorithms in 15 channels probably beats a half-baked job with 32 even 64 channels.

I do NOT think consumers, even retail audiologists, can judge hearing aids by the “features” on the sales-sheet. They all have several forms of “noise reduction”. But how well do they work? Do they sound queer in some situations? They can’t (and wouldn’t) try to explain that in literature. Most consumers can’t objectively judge “sound” even in a 30-day trial.

Note that 100-200-300-400 models are really “Price Points”. You choose to buy the lower-price model, you don’t get the “best” algorithms. It takes a LOT of research and development to improve algorithms. Somebody’s gotta pay. A moderate-loss recluse like me, the 100-level algorithms may be fine and I’m sensitive to cost, so they price the 100-series so I will buy something. Someone with more loss (like you?) and listening all day long will need the very best, and they make those users pay for the leading-edge research.

I bought a Honda Accord. I could have bought nearly the same car as an a Acura. It turns out the Acura has many small details they left off the Accord. Like a muffler-shield that doesn’t rattle; a radio that turns-down when you stop at a light. That still isn’t worth the $3000 extra to me! But I can see how a fancier guy (or a salesman ferrying customers) would go for the higher class car.

In reply to @Mustafa

Your mother’s hearing loss is very consistent across the frequency range. There would be little benefit in having a high number of channels and adjustment handles, because there is no place where the loss changes quickly, and there is little up and down in the response. Here is a fitting curve base on the last posted . You can see the gains for each of the 20 channels below the graph. Note that they change very little, so you really are not making use of the large number of channels and handles. I believe the aid used in this simulation has 48 channels.

image

The pro who sets them up, listens to the issues and makes effective adjustments is much more important than the brand. To me it’s like saying, this car has 35 pounds of air in the tires, it must be better than that car with only 30 pounds of air in the tires.

Edited

In reply to @Sierra

@Sierra said:

There would be little benefit in having a high number of channels and adjustment handles

Agree. Looks like that curve could be fit with 5 “handles”, and maybe two; even one handle and some venting. While it is deep there’s nothing steep here.

@Mustafa said:

THE PERFECT ONE IS THE ONE I NEED .

Like the perfect egg, perfect beer, perfect car, perfect lover-- everybody’s idea of “perfect” is different.

(And true perfection is rare in this world.)

Aside from the , what is wrong? Hearing sounds? Understanding speech? Understanding speech in loud places? Hearing music? The telephone? Annoyed by loud sounds boosted? What current is used and how does that work?

As Don says, the HA fitter may be far more important than how many bits the HA claims. There’s really only 6 HA makers, selling a couple dozen brands at several price-points. Any “NEW!” improvement one has, the others soon have a similar feature. The real task is working with the user and sorting through all the features to set-up the best result. (And the user re-learning sounds which have not been heard in years-- this takes time.)

If it is a question of 100-200-300-400 level: some brands have “Trial” aids which the clinic can program at different levels for comparison, perhaps 30 days?

In reply to @Mustafa

I don’t know much about those specific models, but Widex and Oticon are both good manufacturers. With your mother’s loss I would not put much weight or any weight on the number of channels. To my thinking you have to do first things first. Don’t get caught up in any kind of bells and whistles count. The important things are:

  1. The receiver has enough power
  2. The fitting is suitable for her loss. She will need very small vents and a custom mold
  3. is done and the response adjusted to her loss
Edited

In reply to @PRR

@PRR said:

what is wrong?

Mmm, i don’t understand what you mean exactly. But i wanna buy 2x for my mum :slight_smile:

@PRR said:

Hearing sounds?

Listen hardly. She also suffer from tinnitus in both ears.

@PRR said:

Understanding speech?

Else, she needs us to repeat our speech more than 3 or 4 times till understand well.

@PRR said:

Understanding speech in loud places?

She never understand in loud places, i have to speak into her ear to understand me and hardly to listen too.

@PRR said:

Hearing music?

Normally.

@PRR said:

The telephone?

Good to communicate but sometimes she face hardness in listening or understanding too for that she asks to repeat.

@PRR said:

Annoyed by loud sounds boosted?

She can’t even bear to stay in loud sound boosted not only annoyed, just escape :smiley:

@PRR said:

What current HA is used and how does that work?

First time she wore Sound amplifier 1x Siemens A&M in 2007 in her left ear then it damaged in 2017, After she wore 1x Widex DREAM 110 in right ear since 2017 to early 2019 then it damaged cuz of water and sweat “As you know DREAM doesn’t even support Rating”
Now she is wearing again Sound amplifier 1x Siemens A&M in her right ear till i will decide which HAs i gonna pick for her.
yesterday we went to an audiologist to make a new and he recommended me to take Evoke 440 13 D which it was in my preference.

BTW, i gonna order HAs online not from local shops or branches.
The link : https://onlinehoortoestel.nl/en/widex-evoke-440-bte-13-direct-streaming/5

Edited

In reply to @Sierra

@Sierra said:

but Widex and Oticon are both good manufacturers.

So you think my choice Widex Evoke 440 13D is an amazing pick for her and i won’t regret ?

@Sierra said:

The receiver has enough power

download%20(6) Do you mean that ?

@Sierra said:

The fitting is suitable for her loss.

download%20(7)

@Sierra said:

She will need very small vents and a custom mold

Yeah, she did it 1 week ago.

@Sierra said:

REM is done and the response adjusted to her loss

This “” happens during programming, right ?

This is the data sheet of the product, take a look on it, because there are technical information i don’t understand in it, but you can :slight_smile:
C–inetpub-wwwroot-BIZ-Axapta-documents-9 502 5200 001 01_4.pdf (231.7 KB)

…Real Ear Measurement.

Happens during fitting.

A series of speech fragments are played across a set of speakers.
A microphone is calibrated with the speakers.
The microphone is inserted in the ear canal. The hearing aids are then placed into the ears.
The same speech fragments are played through the same speakers.
The microphone captures what is coming from the hearing aids…while the hearing aids are in the ears.
The results are shown on the PC screen and indicates how close the actual output of the hearing aids matches the prescription.
Adjustments are made until the output of the hearing aid…as measured inside the ear canal…matches the prescription.

In reply to @Mustafa

My suggestion is to find a local fitter that will be willing to program the particular aids you choose, even though you are not going to buy them from them. Make sure they have capability to do the Real Ear Measurement or . This is not normally part of the software supplied by the manufacturer of the hearing aids, and requires extra, quite expensive hardware. Aurical Freefit2 is one supplier. You will also need the fitter to do impressions to make the required molds for the hearing aid you select and the vent size determined by the fitting software. From the little I know about aids, she will likely need the larger tubing and not the slimline, in order to get the gain she needs.

Edited
@Sierra said:

My suggestion is to find a local fitter that will be willing to program the particular aids you choose

I already asked the audiologist “who she made last at him” about the which i’m willing to buy it “Widex Evoke 440 13D” and he recommended me to pick them strongly and told me to come back to him again for programming them, so this section is secured don’t worry.

@Sierra said:

Make sure they have capability to do the Real Ear Measurement or REM.

I will have to ask him about this necessary part next Saturday. But i will show you the all tests he makes.

IMG_20191120_225927

@Sierra said:

I know about BTE aids, she will likely need the larger tubing and not the slimline, in order to get the gain she needs.

Do you mean this vent size and this larger tube ? or this is larger than this tube ?
THEY ARE NEW ONES SHE MADE 1 WEEK AGO.

download%20(8)

Hoortoestellen Vergelijken Online

Vergelijk eenvoudig de beste hoortoestellen online. Ontdek de functies, voordelen en prijzen van verschillende merken en modellen en vind het perfecte hoortoestel dat aan uw behoeften voldoet.

The same feature.
It is already the second unitron that bought me, now I bought unitron D jump R 9 with UP.
I’ve always been with Phonak since I was 6, and I tell you they are from the same chip, they are from the same house in Sonova.
Widex is pretty good, but in my case I don’t like widex.
I prefer Oticon before Widex, but I already tell you that everyone has tastes and colors.

In reply to @Mustafa

That sounds good. I don’t see described on the list you posted. It is part of the fitting process, after a prescription type is selected. I would expect to be suitable. The REM measurement is used to determine if the prescribed sound levels are achieved. Then adjustments are made to achieve them.

The fitting software once you select the hearing aid power and type should say what size vents are used. The sound tube is different than the vent. My understanding is that the higher power aids use the larger tube. Again that size should be specified by the fitting software.

@monteroalmeria said:

Widex is pretty good, but in my case I don’t like widex.

Can you tell me your reasons to not like Widex ? :slight_smile:

@Sierra said:

after a prescription type is selected. I would expect NAL-NL2 to be suitable.

I really didn’t understand that part, maybe it’s a little technical and more technical details i don’t know it yet :slight_smile:

@Sierra said:

The REM measurement is used to determine if the prescribed sound levels are achieved. Then adjustments are made to achieve them.

I will ask him.If it’s not exist at him, i will search for in Egypt where it’s exist.
So if i didn’t find it in Egypt, you think it will be a problem or ?

@Sierra said:

The fitting software once you select the hearing aid power and type should say what size vents are used.

Do you mean this https://www.widex.pro/en/products/compass-fitting-software4 ?
Do you think there is anyone here in the forum has this fitting software can check for me ? If you know, please mention him.

@Sierra said:

The sound tube is different than the vent. My understanding is that the higher power BTE aids use the larger tube.

Look, she made the new custom-earmold during we would think to buy Bolero V70-SP, but we canceled the deal after and only bought the new custom-earmolds. So based on what you said : “My understanding is that the higher power aids use the larger tube.” is applied on Widex Evoke 440 BTE 13D or she may have to change them with new vent size ?
I uploaded the datasheet of Evoke 440 BTE 13D above, you can check about “power” part.

The fitting formula is something the fitter should recommend for your mom’s loss. is a common industry standard. If you don’t find a fitter that uses , the overall fitting quality is likely to be substandard and will compromise the hearing assistance you mom gets. That said many do not have it done. It is a just a quality of fit issue. Yes, that Compass software appears to be the Widex fitting software. If you want to get into that stuff, you would be best to ask a question in the sub forum. I don’t know if the Bolero would use the same tube as the Evoke. I also don’t know if the vent that was put in it will be the same as what Widex recommends. But, you may get lucky and both will be the same.

Active discussions

What the forum has been talking about this week.