Searching for fitting software

@zafdor said:

Bimodal studies using adaptive dynamic range optimization (ADRO) technology - PubMed
Now you have!

Personally I don’t see how you would get a comparison from professionals on AH since none of they fit these instruments. It is my experience that a given fitter (office) will have the hook into him by one of the big boys (Phonak, Siemens…) and fit their instuments primarily. This makes sense because with the complexity of a given instrument, it is difficult to become an ‘expert’ fitting many types and brands.

As for all of the bells and whistles, I guess I would pose the question back to you. Can you site objective research that these provide for better hearing?

Thanks for the link. I put about 100 hours of research into ADRO covering its beginning in the lab to main street and was impressed. As a user of ADRO technology I am happy.

Xbulder the older technology that you support is still fine technology and may be preferred by you. What I do not understand is your emotional/financial need to make unsupported statements to others that are seeking to only hear better?

Folks the main thing is to find a set of aids that meet your needs vs. brand names or technologies used. In my case it was the local fitters that turned me off more than their older technologies. Well being 2.5x more expensive did not help their case.

I think AH could be successful selling the older technology but if you look at the professionals who have joined with America Hears you will be impressed that they are one of the leading edge firms today from technology to marketing. They are just one of many choices in the world.

If you are new here please read BUT question everything you read because it may be false. Sometimes we find supporting our past buying decisions more important than giving objective information to other readers.

@floridajoe said:

Many Thanks to Gayle for the link to AmericaHears software. I downloaded and played with the demo and I like it!! I could NOT find a download link for Phonak or Unitron instruments, just some info that is exists. I have sent in a request to see if they will sell to me and if it’s cost feasable. No point in me spending $1,000 for software even though I’m convinced that the fitting is probably more important than the technology in the aid. If anyone has a link for other software packagesd than I can review, I’d be grateful.

Here is the link to download Phonak lates software:
http://www.phonak.com/professional/productsp/fitting/fittingsoftware_download.htm?Product=iPFG&ProductVersion=iPFG+2.1a&Language=English&Country=USA&PrivateLabel=112

@floridajoe said:

Many Thanks to Gayle for the link to AmericaHears software. I downloaded and played with the demo and I like it!! I could NOT find a download link for Phonak or Unitron instruments, just some info that is exists. I have sent in a request to see if they will sell to me and if it’s cost feasable. No point in me spending $1,000 for software even though I’m convinced that the fitting is probably more important than the technology in the aid. If anyone has a link for other software packagesd than I can review, I’d be grateful.

Here it is:
http://www.phonak.com/professional/productsp/fitting/fittingsoftware_download.htm?Product=iPFG&ProductVersion=iPFG+2.1a&Language=English&Country=USA&PrivateLabel=68

@zafdor said:

Bimodal studies using adaptive dynamic range optimization (ADRO) technology - PubMed
Now you have!

Personally I don’t see how you would get a comparison from professionals on AH since none of they fit these instruments. It is my experience that a given fitter (office) will have the hook into him by one of the big boys (Phonak, Siemens…) and fit their instuments primarily. This makes sense because with the complexity of a given instrument, it is difficult to become an ‘expert’ fitting many types and brands.

As for all of the bells and whistles, I guess I would pose the question back to you. Can you site objective research that these provide for better hearing?

this research paper seems to be implants… Perhaps they are refering to the
medel maestro… again, cold hard fact- none embrace adro in the industry.

If adro was the best of the best, would it make sense most manf would have embrace it just like DSL or NAL?

Again, it will be interesting to poll the profesionals if they think
AH have cutting edge tecnology. Just to compare those aids, with say
Phonak exelia, Unitron Yuu, Oticon Epoq, GN azure, Widex mind 440, Starkey destiny 1600.

I would agree in that AH would be a viable option for some. But im not sure for example Admin would tend to think they are cutting edge…

In a field where most companies are trying to come up with inovating ideas,
Asimetric directionality, Wireless solutions, Integrated real ear measurement, Frequency transposition, frequency compresion, just to name a few tecnologies what have AH propose that is cutting edge
what have they done to advance the field?
Again, it will be nice to get the opinion for others prof.

Any technology is as good as who is using it. The more I learn about hearing aids, the more I am beginning to think adjusting them is one more case of ‘‘If you want it done right, do it your self.’’ An older technology you have adjusted to where it works may be better than mal adjusted state of the art.

I am becoming mal adjusted over the Siemens Cielos I have had adusted at least a dozen time, and they still amplify every shrill noise and drown out voice.

@xbulder said:

this research paper seems to be implants…

OOps, you’re right, that is the wrong one. It could be this one:
http://tia.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/9/2/7712

Hard to tell without being able to read the whole paper; I did read a study where ADRO outperformed WDRC at least for the conditions set forth. If one of the big boys (phonak, siemens…) came out with an algorithm that way outperformed everyone elses instruments, you can bet they would be circulating studies that show it. I think what we have is a tight horse race all around, with some users having better luck with some instruments and others having luck with others. I’d rather have a crappy instument fit by a real fitting guru, then a top notch instrument fit by a hack, that is the point many miss I think.

‘State of the Art’ is a meaningless term, a better question is does it make me hear better? I could not help but notice you included the Siemens pure as being one that you say outperforms the AH instruments. I happen to notice there was a 58 post thread right here on this instrument being unsatisfactory! Don’t be fooled by bells and wistles, let improved hearing be the metric instruments are judged by.

@Juergen said:

Here it is:
http://www.phonak.com/professional/productsp/fitting/fittingsoftware_download.htm?Product=iPFG&ProductVersion=iPFG+2.1a&Language=English&Country=USA&PrivateLabel=

Juergen, Thank you for that link. I’m downloading it now. I have to wonder … and guess I’ll find out when it’s done a couple of hours or so from now … does it run stand-alone, or does it need that NOAH (is it?) program with it? If it needs NOAH just to glance in at the settings available, where does one get that from???

Re: ADRO as superior technology: No. It is not superior… it is simply another way of handling the problem of sounds being too loud for comfort. The vast majority of the mfg’s and dispensers prefer the WDRC method of handing loud sounds. Here is why.

Virtually 100% of the persons suffering most of the common forms of hearing loss also suffer some degree of recruitment. That is, loud sounds distort and cause discomfort. (reduced dynamic range)

The ADRO system is designed to slowly (slowly is a direct quote from the Dynamic Hearing professional instruction manual.) change gains to handle loud sounds (and too soft sounds). Typically gains change at the rate of 3db/second up to 9db/second. This rate is far too slow to control the loud transient sounds encountered in everyday life. So ADRO relies on a standard MPO (Maximum Power Output) circuit to catch the fast loud transients. MPO circuits generate distortion directly proportional to the amount of reduction required…in essence MPO’s are loudness clippers. They do not do a good job when pushed too far.

What this means is that ADRO is an excellent system for those with mild to moderate loss with a minimum of recruitment. It is not suitable for some of those with moderate loss and all of the severe/profound losses because of the usual accompanying recruitment.

WDRC aids handle loud transients by several methods. The fast and slow compression circuit (syllabic+dual) with adjustable knee point, often some form of sound smoothing in the pre amp stages and as last resort a maximum output limiter. WDRC aids can be very flexible and can be adjusted to work satisfactorily with a wide variety of loss types. (syllabic=1 to 3 milliseconds…dual= .3 to 1 second)

For those with lots of recruitment WDRC is the way to go. Ed

@Neilk said:

Hmmm … I was going to say I found that it can be installed and run stand-alone. So NOAH itself is not needed to see what options are available to set … and I now have a couple of new questions for my audi. It’s a shame though that you cannot see what your aids are set at without the Hi-Pro box or the iCube. The first runs about $1,000USD, the other can be had just under $400USD from what I can find. But even spending another $400 is out of the question at the moment. And I think you would still need the USB cables to connect the MyPilot and iCom to get their pairing and whatever.

You can get the icube cheaper than that, and it does come with a USB cable if needed, however it is bluetooth enabled and also (mine did anyway) comes with a bluetooth usb dongle in the event your computer doesn’t have bluetooth. I haven’t used the icube yet as I have loaner hearing aids as mine were sent back to Phonak to sort out the my pilot issues.

The cheapest I’ve seen the iCube is $350. While I’d love to get one, I don’t know if I could justify the price…

@Neilk said:

Juergen, Thank you for that link. I’m downloading it now. I have to wonder … and guess I’ll find out when it’s done a couple of hours or so from now … does it run stand-alone, or does it need that NOAH (is it?) program with it? If it needs NOAH just to glance in at the settings available, where does one get that from???

You will be able to simulate the Hipro so you can see all the settings that are available for your hearing aid device.

Because I use the German Settings I´m not sure the Key words you will see.

Run iPFG
go to configuration (Settings?) / Communication and switch of the "on line activation "

May be there is a second selection

go to Hearing system and deselect “on line activation”

Now you will be able to simulate everything but of course if you want to do the programming you will need the hardware.

I´m wondering where the real hardware freaks are to design a self made programmer

@Juergen said:

…I´m wondering where the real hardware freaks are to design a self made programmer

Here7 is the USB specification (the computer end) - a simple bit-serial interface. DSP chips (usually) also have a bit-serial interface. The problem is that the exact interface specs are not readily available (at least I have not been able to find them on the internet). I assume that Phonak, et al., do not want anyone to discover that the “programmer” is nothing but a simple (cheap) serial converter so that they can charge outrageous prices for it (e.g., $400) and force you to be dependent on your audiologist.

Note that the deeper protocols for the interface have to be handled by the programming software that runs in your computer. This protocol has to exactly match that of the DSP, in order to properly adjust the hearing aid. Incorrect data could really mess it up. :eek:

Thank you Juergen. And yes, I was able to install the iPFG2.3 program and see all of the options available at least. So I impressed my audi when I gave her the exact steps to get in to turn on the Last Number Redial and Voice Dialing features of the iCom … and they both work perfectly I might say. I have my own LG VX8300 and my company Moto W385, our 24 hour tech support phone, both 2 to 3 years old, that both work perfectly with both features now that they are enabled.

As for making changes, I’m content to let my audi handle them as she knows more what she’s doing there. I’m happy to see what can be done so I can discuss it a bit more intelligently with her. Also, if I were to start making changes, what she had on record would not match what changes I made and would likely gum up the whole works.

You will find my actual link list here:

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